I suppose the old, "if engineered" is the crucial aspect here as opposed to if properly loaded out. Makes engineers a "must" rather than optional in just about any player on player conflict. I'm not looking forward to the effect of Uri's special effect in that regard.
1.2 vs 2.2 FDL: A comparison
- Thread starter Alexander the Grape
- Start date
I suppose the old, "if engineered" is the crucial aspect here as opposed to if properly loaded out. Makes engineers a "must" rather than optional in just about any player on player conflict. I'm not looking forward to the effect of Uri's special effect in that regard.
A few hours for an FDL?
I havent played for a good few months now but how does this work? Surely you are joking.
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And if i think back, this is what happened to the python, and with good reason. The so called multi role, that dominated anything else when set up right.
Yet now people ask for the same thing for a pure combat ship, that would struggle to leave docking with anything heavier than a box of eggs.
Its a combat ship, and a relatively expensive one. Both to buy and replace. It cant do anything other than fight, and so it has to be good at it or whats the point? Why the hell would this ship perform as well as ships that cost less, or significantly less than it?
As with everything in this game, you just have to pick your fights.
But the python isn't a dedicated combat ship....its multi role. Why should it be able to fight as well as a pure combat ship?
Serious question.
Absolutely agree on the jump range adjustment. Undecided about the utility slot adjustment - there should be more, but probably dedicated scanner slots would help to prevent too much stacking.
I disagree on so-called agility *nerfs*. Admittedly, I haven't flown the Keelback, DBE and Viper Mk IV enough to have an informed opinion. However I flew the Viper Mk III pretty much all through PB and occasionally still fly it today and it's one of the most agile ships around, provided you make use of thrusters.
The old FDL was awesome when flying it like a drifty Viper MkIII and handling her well felt like an achievement. The new one? Point and click.
6 utils for the FDL are outrageous, compared to the 4 of the Python. Python is a multirole, it *should* be more versatile than the FDL, thence have more utils. I'd say reverse the quantities, Python 6, FDL 4 or max 5.
Nowadays, with Shield Boosters giving more than 40% boost and lots of damage reduction, utils have too much impact on the ships to not consider balancing this.
And... money is so easy also that 50 or 100 Millions makes no difference.
Nowadays, with Shield Boosters giving more than 40% boost and lots of damage reduction, utils have too much impact on the ships to not consider balancing this.
And... money is so easy also that 50 or 100 Millions makes no difference.
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Not really, the FDL is a combat ship. A warship. The FDL shouldn't lose slots. It also pays for those util slots by having a very small number of internal slots. If anything, the Python should have one or two extra util slots, especially with how expensive it can be to outfit, mine cost nearly 100 mil and its not entirely A rated, or engineered at all.
I never meant to say that they just damage your modules with missiles, though I did imply that and I should have been more clear. And if they don't target modules, they sure make a hell of a show of going for the powerplant.
I've had NPCs tag my Powerplant and FSD with Plasma Accelerator shots that knocked them down to <60% and caused malfunctions to the point where I had to withdraw from the fight to repair after only a few minutes in the RES (Usually shields down resulting from crashing into an asteroid... whoops. But shields down is shields down).
Either way, with armor not protecting modules, the huge shield advantage in base shield and its ability to be extended by boosters, the unnecessary Powerplant and Maneuverability buff, the argument of PVE vs PVP is moot. To Truesilver and Alexander the Grape, the FDL is just as OP for PVE as PVP and still eclipses all the ships in its tier by a mile. Except against the nastiest NPC opponents, you can make many things work in PVE that would be obliterated in PVP. But with all of those other options, other things like engineers being equal, you're at a huge disadvantage simply because you're not in an FDL.
PVE vs PVP is irrelevant to this discussion, I think.
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I think you're confusing acceleration with agility.
The FDL can have a 56 deg/s pitch rate. This means that FDL can turn 360 in 6.4 seconds.
The Viper AT BEST has a 46 deg/s pitch rate, with reasonable dps. Which means it takes a full 7.7 seconds to make that same turn.
A Vulture can do it ~6 seconds, and can stop on a dime.
The Viper with grade 5 DDs is almost as drifty as the FDL. I did a test threading between the struts that support the ring surrounding an orbis station. It's a tight fit, but the FDL was able to navigate it at 260 m/s with ease. The Vulture a little faster. But the Viper had to slow down to 230 to make the same turns.
I have tested this very thoroughly. The fully upgraded Viper agility is nice compared to an unmodded A rated Eagle, but it can't really hold up in the turns, outside of PVE. It certainly can't maintain a flanking position, and this is something both the FDL and the Vulture are capable of! It's a bit silly. What is the point of flying a small glass peashooter if it can't at least outmaneuver bigger tankier, faster, and deadlier ships?
Python with extra slots would make it OP. If it could have the same armor and slot all of the SCBs and HRPs in the world, and output higher armor pen damage... oh man. The Python would be an unstoppable tank.
What the Python really needs is an SLF slot. That would force the FDL to deal with the tiny hard to hit ship, and give the Python time to gain position.
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Since everyone got a fragging opinion let me add my 2 cents in here.
The old FDL was like a racing car.
It was fine tuned to do one thing well, and you had to master the FDL.
You had to master the powenamagment.
You had to master the weight.
You had to master yourself.
It was a knight.
Current FDL is babbys first PVP ship that forgives you mistakes, and scales to literal infinity with engineering. It has no drawbacks and is EASYMODE i win button.
I miss the days when Federal Drift ship was a valid choice, and the days where Armor tanked slim rail cobra was fun.
They say that FDL was buffed, but the reality was that FDL pilot base was nerffed. I used to recept FDL pilots for mastering their ship for full potential. Now i cant tell if its flown by master or some walletwarrior.
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Actually, FDL is luxury ship. Python (some of its variants) is, acording lore, a warship.
The old FDL was like a racing car.
It was fine tuned to do one thing well, and you had to master the FDL.
You had to master the powenamagment.
You had to master the weight.
You had to master yourself.
It was a knight.
Current FDL is babbys first PVP ship that forgives you mistakes, and scales to literal infinity with engineering. It has no drawbacks and is EASYMODE i win button.
I miss the days when Federal Drift ship was a valid choice, and the days where Armor tanked slim rail cobra was fun.
They say that FDL was buffed, but the reality was that FDL pilot base was nerffed. I used to recept FDL pilots for mastering their ship for full potential. Now i cant tell if its flown by master or some walletwarrior.
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Actually, FDL is luxury ship. Python (some of its variants) is, acording lore, a warship.
However, flying a Python in combat does not reward a tank build. Building for agility and speed, especially with dirty drive tunings seems to be the way to go. I will probably go that route myself. For the cost, it is rather odd that the python only has 4 util slots, same as the asp exlorer, which costs much less to outfit. The FDL costs less to outfit than a python does, but has 6 util slots. A tank build Python might be able to take a beating, but it would have a really hard time hitting anything.
The biggest problem with the Python nerf, in my mind, has always been the ~30% shield nerf. If they had left the shields as they were (stronger than an Anaconda by a touch) it would have perfectly fit it's description. I'd probably argue that restoring it's original shield strength is exactly what it needs - basically, it should be a shield tank ship - thus an effective "safe" trader, or a potential heavy gunning shield tank, relying on shields and firepower, with power to spare to run it all at once, not speed and agility. the benefit of the FDL, as I saw it, was a fairly nimble and tough all round ship, with an epic bite, but not quite the power to keep it all running without some clever piloting - which is what made it interesting, the Vulture was also like this...
the FDL has my respect because you actually had to be pretty good in every way to make it the brutal weapon it had the potential to be. Now you just need a lot of grind time.
I am, of course, talking un-engineered but all A-rated, which is how all ships should probably be compared to start with...
Z...
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A python with an SLF option would just put clear water between it and any comparable ship in its class. As much as I think it would handy to have a fighter bay I think it would be a bad idea as it would be too OP.
after spending countless hours upgrading and flying a vette, i bought an FDL for kicks and am now modding that like crazy.
its night and day, and a big disappointment from the vette side
on the FDL side, man what a cracker@ so much fun to fly, agile as with DD G5, FSD range is sucky but not bad with G5, im excited about combat again
i dont know why i bothered with a vette, its about 10 times harder to deck out and not even on par with an FDL?!?
advice, dont bother with vette, go for an FDL
why do we have big ships?
its night and day, and a big disappointment from the vette side
on the FDL side, man what a cracker@ so much fun to fly, agile as with DD G5, FSD range is sucky but not bad with G5, im excited about combat again
i dont know why i bothered with a vette, its about 10 times harder to deck out and not even on par with an FDL?!?
advice, dont bother with vette, go for an FDL
why do we have big ships?
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Really? I can think of 19 drawbacks off the top of my head:
- The FDL has horrible hard point placement, it's strongest weapon is below it's horizon which you HAVE to be pointing directly at (or above??) your opponent to use the weapon. Which means the target is often below the horizon, and you are flying by sensors.
- The FDL also has a odd side-horizon problem where one of the outer medium hardpoints is very often failing to get a lock, and doesn't fire.
- The FDL turning rate is EXTREMELY pip dependent, which means that if you don't use low WEP drain guns, then you will be flying a spinning brick, and or getting EXTREMELY good at FA off aiming.
- The FDL has mostly low class weapon with low armor pen which means that against large and med ships, it's really doing 50% of stated DPS with those medium guns
- The FDL runs hot as hades unless you specially engineer EVERYTHING to run cool.
- The FDL is expensive to repair when it inevitably overheats with high DPS builds.
- The FDL can run fairly cool if engineered properly but at a huge cost to DPS.
- The FDL jump range maxes out at 20LY with herculean weight saving efforts, typical "high" results are more like 18 LY.
- The FDL cannot catch anyone who high wakes - some bounty hunting ship...
- The FDLl has low base armor and HEAVY upgraded bulkheads, so you either NEED huge shields or you'll have to accept lower agility/speed
- The FDL has crap internals, and must decide between fuel scoops, SCBs that actually heal anything, and big shields, pick one.
- The FDL has a fairly large hitbox compared to the edge-on Python or even the Vulture.
- The FDL is horrible at the ramming meta, and can be wiped out by ships with much smaller shields
- The FDL is horrible at trading
- The FDL is mediocre at mining
- The FDL is possibly the worst exploration ship in the game
- The FDL doesn't have any good paint jobs
- The FDL doesn't have any ship kits
- The FDL won't do my taxes
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Really? I can think of 17 drawbacks off the top of my head:
The FDL has horrible hard point placement, it's strongest weapon is below it's horizon which you HAVE to be pointing directly at your opponent to use the weapon.
The FDL also has a odd side-horizon problem where one of the outer medium hardpoints is very often failing to get a lock, and doesn't fire.
The FDL has mostly low class weapon with low armor pen which means it's really doing 50% of stated DPS
The FDL runs hot as hades unless you specially engineer you EVERYTHING to run cool.
The FDL is expensive to repair when it inevitably overheats with high DPS builds.
The FDL can run fairly cool if engineered properly but at a huge cost to DPS.
The FDL jump range maxes out at 20LY with herculean weight saving efforts, typical results are more like 18 LY.
The FDL cannot catch anyone who high wakes - some bounty hunting ship...
The FDL has crap internals, and must decide between fuel scoops, SCBs that actually heal anything, and big shields, pick one.
The FDL has a fairly large hitbox compared to the edge-on Python or even the Vulture.
The FDL is horrible at the ramming meta, and can be wiped out by ships with much smaller shields
The FDL is horrible at trading
The FDL is mediocre at mining
The FDL is possibly the worst exploration ship in the game
The FDL doesn't have any good paint jobs
The FDL doesn't have any ship kits
The FDL won't do my taxes
The FdL does so have good paint jobs!
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The FDL does have its flaws but G5 modded it is fun to fly and is a beautiful ship. Lack of internals is a real pain, it needs a small buff in the dept.
It will be very interesting to see what kind of ship kit will surface for it, as shape wise it is slightly odd.
Yeah there's Yellow and Green...
updated the list btw, how could I forget pip issues and low/heavy armor?
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