2.2 Building the Neutron Highway Grid

[kuel]

Cmdr's

I would like to put my voice to those that want FD to drastically increase the neutron star long jump and tune down the amount of damage done to FSD. I'd like at least a 10x increase, at the moment the jump is pretty much useless for reducing overall travel time ( if you include time to map and surf the star )


change it because....

1) Reward Skill, skilled, thoughtful players, i.e. explorers or players using explorers maps get big boost on how quickly they can travel to far locations from bubble.

2) Because the game dynamic is fun and it would be good if it were also truly useful, for me it *could* be the single biggest feature of this release
( yes love the fighters and GUI too )

3) Being knowledgeable of surroundings and having a "sense of place" give the boon of faster travel.

4) Creates tactical choke points that players will want to squeeze through, creating more chance of chance interactions in the black


thank you for all your great work and please keep it coming.


o7
Cmdr kuel Tardis

 

[Ziljan]

You keep calling for easier and more convenient mechanics, and where does that leave emergent gameplay and community efforts that offer more involved and interesting alternatives?

I understand 100% that there should always be pushback against making the game too easy. And I agree with you entirely on this point, the easier Elite gets, the less I want to play it. That being said, the game also needs to be dynamic or it will age poorly. And if the exploration community stays too small and arcane, then Frontier will continue to have little incentive to upgrade it. Most of my desire to decentralize the process of neutron pathfinding is to:

A) get more people involved in Exploration, open up the galaxy
B) make risk/reward a bigger part of standard exploration
C) add more compelling gameplay that involved real Exploration/pathfinding, not just tourism
D) add a skill component to Exploration - something that is sore missing

You may disagree, but I believe that these kind of assets will attract the kind of Dev attention that Exploration really needs. And the larger the Exploration community becomes, the more our development wishlist will become everyone's development wishlist. We've seen this phenomenon already. Now that more and more people have gotten around to trying Exploration, some of our big ticket issues even have stickies on the main discussion forum! Things are finally beginning to happen. Opening up the galaxy with an interesting risk/reward mechanic would definitely encourage people to get out there. And then suddenly the whole community would be sucked into the black. Would that be such a bad thing?

 

[Tarrakis]

2nd trip along the highway complete

Depart Polo Harbour: 10:22
Arrive Jaques Station: 11:59
Time: 97mins
Ship/range: AspX/34.5Ly

Spoiler

That's shaved around an hour off my previous time

Had a few issue with the smaller plumes, I flew right through them and had to double back to get the boost...my technique still needs work obviously.
I'm finding that flying along them and scooping from the periphery is more effective than flying directly into them, it also makes it easier to exit/recover.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I understand 100% that there should always be pushback against making the game too easy. And I agree with you entirely on this point, the easier Elite gets, the less I want to play it. That being said, the game also needs to be dynamic or it will age poorly. Most of my desire to decentralize the process of neutron pathfinding is to:

A) get more people involved in Exploration, open up the galaxy
B) make risk/reward a bigger part of standard exploration
C) add more compelling gameplay that involved real Exploration/pathfinding, not just tourism

You may disagree, but I believe that these kind of assets will attract the kind of Dev attention that Exploration really needs. And the larger the Exploration community becomes, the more our development wishlist will become everyone's development wishlist. We've seen this phenomenon already. Now that more and more people have gotten around to trying Exploration, some of our big ticket issues even have stickies on the main discussion forum! Things are finally beginning to happen. Opening up the galaxy with an interesting risk/reward mechanic would definitely encourage people to get out there. And then suddenly the whole community would be sucked into the black. Would that be such a bad thing?

I fully agree. I guess we want the same thing at the end of the day but we are both taking different routes to get there.

My personal view has always been for FD to leave the door open for emergent gameplay, see what the community are up to, and work with them on bringing features that work in tandem with some of the ideas folks come up with, and not simply make them obsolete by being so clinical with every feature they add. Some ambiguity encourages out of the box thinking, which leads to some interesting initiatives.

This neutron mechanic is the one I've spent the most time on since beta and I see the potential for some great community driven content. Just look at the amount of data players have submitted to this thread since August. There's potential here for some exploration missions, player created, to go chart highways around the Galaxy. But if FD take a clinical approach and have the route plotter do it for us, yes it's more convenient, but it does nothing for player created ventures.

Thats all I'm getting at here

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2nd trip along the highway complete

Depart Polo Harbour: 10:22
Arrive Jaques Station: 11:59
Time: 97mins
Ship/range: AspX/34.5Ly

Spoiler

View attachment 112760

That's shaved around an hour off my previous time

Had a few issue with the smaller plumes, I flew right through them and had to double back to get the boost...my technique still needs work obviously.
I'm finding that flying along them and scooping from the periphery is more effective than flying directly into them, it also makes it easier to exit/recover.

Thanks Tarrakis, I'll create a table of stats over the weekend and see if we can pull some interesting data from them when we get more variety of ships running the route

 

[Valije]

I have a list of almost 1 thousand NS heading North from Colonia to Thueche AA-A H16 Nebula, half of them North of Myoangooe AA-A H2 Nebula. They are not in the NS belts but just around the galactic plane. If you are interested in that direction I think I will be able to manage a list of them in straight line.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I have a list of almost 1 thousand NS heading North from Colonia to Thueche AA-A H16 Nebula, half of them North of Myoangooe AA-A H2 Nebula. They are not in the NS belts but just around the galactic plane. If you are interested in that direction I think I will be able to manage a list of them in straight line.

Yes please! The more data we have to work with, the larger the network can spread.

 

[Miklos Atreides]

just to be the Heretic, I really hope all will use these Neutron Highway and leave this beautiful landscape alone.
And all the mysterious within.

More for exploration to me.

Regards,
Miklos

 

[Rudi Raumkraut]

If I understand this correctly, we need different lists for different jump Ranges?!
Maybe a poll could help to see which are the "normal" Ranges for the common Explorer ships?

And @Ziljan: Dual Monitor ftw against alt-tabbing

 

[Ziljan]

But if FD take a clinical approach and have the route plotter do it for us, yes it's more convenient, but it does nothing for player created ventures.

Thats all I'm getting at here

Ahh, then there is a misunderstanding. I am not saying that the route plotter should do the exploring for us, smoothing out the path before us. Hell no. I am saying that we should be able to manually set routes and create way points. Which is no different than bookmarking, or alt-tab copy-pasta, except that it feels more integrated and immersive and empowering the individual rather than enthralling people to forum lore.

So we find our own way, by the sweat of our own brow, and then save these for future use so they are easy to use after the work is done. This would allow for useful of sharing increasingly larger and larger sets of data, like the kind found in the OP lists. People could find them and update them and sort through them just like cooking recipes. So instead of one-stop Erimus shopping, there would be 100s and even 1000s of such lists available for sharing. All created with in game assets.

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And @Ziljan: Dual Monitor ftw against alt-tabbing

I do have a 2nd monitor, but it would need a 2nd desk. My "monitor is 47" and is as wide as my huge desk, and floor space is at a premium.

It goes without saying though, 2nd monitors should not be required gear for any game mechanic.

 

[Rudi Raumkraut]

Yes, it should not be required for game mechanic, but comes handy for my Gaming experience... same for this hghways

 

[BDelacroix]

First, neutron jumping is the best thing to happen to long distance travel since the invention of FTL drives.

Now, I know the colonia to sol neutron lists have been turned off, but if it gets turned back on, I am currently writing down the path I am taking from colonia to the bubble. There is a massive field "down" from the galactic plane so you can basically take your pick on the way through. Just remember to pop up for gas every so often. I am currently between polo and whatever station it is outbound from that.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

First, neutron jumping is the best thing to happen to long distance travel since the invention of FTL drives.

Now, I know the colonia to sol neutron lists have been turned off, but if it gets turned back on, I am currently writing down the path I am taking from colonia to the bubble. There is a massive field "down" from the galactic plane so you can basically take your pick on the way through. Just remember to pop up for gas every so often. I am currently between polo and whatever station it is outbound from that.

Please post your list. The more systems we have to work with, the more chance of optimizing a route. [up]

 

[Feuermagier]

I tried to make my Supercharged Jump - got Server Error.
As I logged back in, the Server Placed me in the Neutron Star Jet, 33% Hull, about to die.
Now I have a Problem.

 

[BDelacroix]

My first jump was similar. Was actually out quite far from the star then got disconnected. Came back in right next to it and was lucky to make it out.

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Please post your list. The more systems we have to work with, the more chance of optimizing a route. [up]

I popped back on to do just that.

I am currently outbound from colonia to the bubble to get some weapon updates and fighter bay. I am flying a battle anaconda with a ~26ly jump range when full. I get about a 100ly jump on a neutron boost.

Here is the path I took from Polo to Gagarin (in reverse). Most of these are chain neutrons so don't forget to repair and refuel on occasion.

= Gagarin Gate =

gru hypue qt-r d4-41
gru hypue pt-r d4-10
gru hypue kx-u e2-15
gru hypue wf-o d6-80
nuekuae xy-i d9-138
nuekuae zj-r e4-25
nuekuae af-h d10-126
nuekuae dq-p e5-28
nuekuae ir-d d12-190
nuekuae lx-b d13-167
nuekuae gw-n e6-20
nuekuae od-a d4-62
blaa phoe jv-y d60
blaa phoe hl-y e361
blaa phoe vn-t d3-108
blaa phoe zt-r d4-37
blaa phoe ca-q d5-22
blaa phoe fg-o d6-186
blaa phoe jm-m d7-16
blaa phoe jm-m d7-292
blaa phoe yk-f d11-43
blaa phoe cr-d d12-74
blaa phoe ew-n e6-67
Blaa Phoe jd-a d14-387
Boewnst gd-b b1-18
Boewnst bq-x d1-319
Boewnst FW-V D2-518
Boewnst HH-U D3-116
Boewnst hx-s d4-315
Boewnst hx-s d4-468
Boewnst HN-R D5-1418
Boewnst kt-p d6-126
Boewnst oz-n d7-2089
Boewnst pk-m d8-951
Boewnst Tq-k d9-1439
BOEWNST KS-S C20-959

=Polo Harbour=

 

[BDelacroix]

Here is the path I took from Gagarin to Sacagawea

Same caveats as above. There are a couple of areas in which there were no neutron jumps.

=Sacaqawea Port=

prua phoe jb-w d2-16
prua phoe vd-s d4-48
prua phoe hg-o d6-66
prua phoe mm-m d7-27
prua phoe qs-k d8-39
prua phoe ze-h d10-115
prua phoe cl-f d11-36
prua phoe hr-d d12-14
prua phoe lx-b d13-125
prua phoe pd-a d14-54
clooku hp-a d99
clooku mv-y d191
clooku ng-x d1-50
clooku th-v d2-99
clooku nr-w e1-178
clooku nr-w e1-364
clooku fa-q d5-224
clooku rx-u e2-28
clooku vd-t e3-359
clooku ss-k d8-83
clooku xy-i d9-66
clooku bf-h d10-260
clooku fl-f d11-255
clooku nx-b d13-44
blua hypue yw-b d13-13
blua hypue cd-a d14-47
gru hypue vo-a d16
gru hypue zu-y d40
gru hypue db-x d1-0
gru hypue ih-v d2-38
gru hypue mn-t d3-26

= Gagarin Gate =

 

[Jaiotu]

... the point of spending time setting up the bookmarks has been missed, You don't have to waste time doing that, as its been done for you. You don't even need to make the BMs, you can simply copy the waypoints from the table and paste them into your galmap... it takes seconds.

The first person to make the crossing will be doing all of the labor. I'm sure that the "83 minutes" accounts only for the travel time not the "administrative" effort of plotting the route. One person sacrifices the time and effort to map the path. Everyone else who comes after him reaps the benefit because that work has already been done.

The point of creating a "neutron highway" to anywhere isn't to benefit yourself (unless you're simply trying to go some place that would otherwise be out of reach). The point is the altruism toward the community who will use the path for weeks, months and years to come.

I'm not sure why people don't get it.

 

[Rewision]

Hey great initiative! I really like the idea of a few highways that can be used in the galaxy Will probably help out when I get my conda engineered, if you guys havent already completed highways all over the place^^ Like the fact that you could half the travel time with a good optimal highway. That ofc being for the ship range the route was intended! If we have a route thats optimzed for 33 ly ranged ships then a conda with 60 ly wont really save much time folowing it blindly They could look for diffrent NS close to the route or look to skip if possible but this will also take a decent amount of time I think^^ but if you dont have way over the ly range of the route then you should still make good time using it I think

 

[Iron Orchid]

[mad]Well that was interesting, just over halfway (Eord Flyuae HT-H d10-2658 2970kly 23jumps 129kly a jump) to Polo Harbour from Colonia, in a jump to NS I had a match making failure error ended up in the cone of the destination NS star in normal space [mad] - so that was time and money wasted.. Up to then it had been quite fun. Tried everything, rebooting, couldn't leave the cone or anything. (I think I'll post it as a bug if no one else has.)

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

The first person to make the crossing will be doing all of the labor. I'm sure that the "83 minutes" accounts only for the travel time not the "administrative" effort of plotting the route. One person sacrifices the time and effort to map the path. Everyone else who comes after him reaps the benefit because that work has already been done.

The point of creating a "neutron highway" to anywhere isn't to benefit yourself (unless you're simply trying to go some place that would otherwise be out of reach). The point is the altruism toward the community who will use the path for weeks, months and years to come.

I can see the other argument too, that people want to be able to quickly make their own routes so want it to be quick and conviennent to do so.... So it's a balancing act for FD. They either embrace community initiatives and let them flourish, or the implement more and more automated features that make these initiatives obsolete.

For example, it'll be interesting to see how the new non scoopable route filter effects the fuel rats. A great player driven initiative may now die a slow death because a simple game mechanic addition.

I'm not sure why people don't get it.

Yep, that's it in a nutshell. It's a community effort, using community submitted data. The highway concept is only really viable if it links up well trodden pathways... Like the bubble to the outposts, outposts to Colonia. Or popular tourism destinations. As that makes the time invested to chart them worthwhile.

Random pathways out into the black will probably only ever benefit those individuals that make them, so the time investment in charting those is indeed not worth it.

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[mad]Well that was interesting, just over halfway (Eord Flyuae HT-H d10-2658 2970kly 23jumps 129kly a jump) to Polo Harbour from Colonia, in a jump to NS I had a match making failure error ended up in the cone of the destination NS star in normal space [mad] - so that was time and money wasted.. Up to then it had been quite fun. Tried everything, rebooting, couldn't leave the cone or anything. (I think I'll post it as a bug if no one else has.)

Don't log back in. Submit a ticket. Game support will be able to move you to a safe system if your client crashed inside a neutron jet.

 

[Feuermagier]

The same happened to me.
I was barely able to escape.