2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[bitstorm]

This is the answer (IMHO):

Player has a ship in Mars High and wants to send it to Ekhi Science Orbital . They fly to Sol and dock at Mars High. They go into the galaxy map and select Ekhi, then go into the system map and select the Orbital. This gives them a menu option 'Transfer Ship'. A sub menu lists the ships currently docked at Mars High.

They select the ship they want to send. The server calculates cost based on distance/fuel. Player confirms the transaction. Ship disappears from Mars High. Behind the scenes it is already marked on the database as being provisionally at Ekhi. An icon appears at Ekhi in the Galaxy Map saying 'Ship on route'.

Player flies to Ekhi in their current ship. The transferred ship is waiting for them having arrived a few seconds before. Docking at Ekhi resets the Galaxy Map ship icon back to normal.

Result: Player has their ship where they want it. They only made one journey to Ekhi. The transferred ship took the same amount of time to get there as they did (not perfect but reasonable). No timers were necessary. No FTL communication. No teleportation. No magic. No immersion has been broken. No extra time spent waiting at stations for ships to arrive. No real performance hit to the server as it is only making a single calculation. No complicated database calls - it's simply updating one join table record with the new location of the ship and setting a flag to say it is 'on route'.

YW

[up]          

 

[Robert Maynard]

No timers were necessary.

If the ship was transferred (on the server) instantly when the player confirmed the transfer but had an "arrival" date/time stamped in the ship record then a simple "is server time greater than ship arrival time" test would indicate whether the ship had arrived yet....

 

[Cageman]

That's a good example of how we can stretch actual reality to fit our perception of it. Fully refueling and rearming a modern jet or a chopper takes a bit more time than 10 minutes, really. And even then, ten minutes is not a nano second. And repairing? Let's not even talk about realistic vehicles, but when you bring back your battle torned FAS to the hangar, with more or less 10% hull left, no canopy, and many subsystems down, are you ok with the fact that clicking on a button does insta-repair the whole mess? I'm personally more than ok with that, but regarding your own view on the subject, should you? How is that so different from insta travel?

The huge difference is that, from the start of this game, we never had to manually repair our ships. Never. From the start of this game, we had to allways spend time manually travel where we wanted to go, and spend a lot of time to carefully transport ships to locations for Mining, Bountyhunting, Trading etc.

Instant teleportation is a silly. But... I am OK with that if there were options in how we want the ships being transfered. The cheap way would be "Hire an NPC that fly the ship the time it would take based on jumprange".... We can call it the Realtime option... and some other options between Instant and Realtime, where realtime is a much lower cost, but with the drawback that you'll have to wait (and, in the meantime, maybe do something in the game with the ship you currently have).

 

[askavir]

It's actually pretty clear, but so does dying at beagle's point and "respawning" a second later in the station you last docked.

So unless people die for real when a ship is destroyed, anything goes, as any believability has already been removed?

 

[[VR] Marrs]

If the ship was transferred (on the server) instantly when the player confirmed the transfer but had an "arrival" date/time stamped in the ship record then a simple "is server time greater than ship arrival time" test would indicate whether the ship had arrived yet....

That also works

 

[Gimi]

I would have lost "time". It costs me more money to save the time than I could make in the same time.

Again, I get your point, but it does depend on perspective. If earning credit is your goal, than yes. If gaining rank is your goal, then you have saved time.
Either way, ship transportation changes the game. Good or bad, who know? Right now I'm very sceptical of the currently planned implementation.

 

[Robert Maynard]

That also works

It also allows for more realistic voyage durations for the transferred ships (as opposed to the time it takes in the optimal taxi).

 

[Boomer Kay]

So unless people die for real when a ship is destroyed, anything goes, as any believability has already ben removed?

They could float around in space for as long as the escape pods resources last and fiddle their thumbs. Or fly 40kly at sub light speed.
Not very shmexy gameplay.
Neither is traveling in a vette.

 

[Flimley]

If I can 3D print a ship why not a resonating separator? Why can't I buy a new 3D printed ship at some stations with a shipyard? Ad-hoc lore is a problem. I am interested to see how this is crowbarred into the universe, or even if FD bother. By the sounds of the stream it's simply going to be magic. Accio Anaconda.

I am thinking about this 3D printing explanation used by Frontier.... I was surprised to learn that the ships that carry the fighter hangers could re-print 7-8 ships from one module.
Now im wondering why and how everything else can not be 3D printed. SRV's, missiles, powerplants. Clearly alongside the AFMU we may as well have a 3D general printer module.
Flimley.

 

[Ziljan]

This is the answer (IMHO):

Player has a ship in Mars High and wants to send it to Ekhi Science Orbital . They fly to Sol and dock at Mars High. They go into the galaxy map and select Ekhi, then go into the system map and select the Orbital. This gives them a menu option 'Transfer Ship'. A sub menu lists the ships currently docked at Mars High.

They select the ship they want to send. The server calculates cost based on distance/fuel. Player confirms the transaction. Ship disappears from Mars High. Behind the scenes it is already marked on the database as being provisionally at Ekhi. An icon appears at Ekhi in the Galaxy Map saying 'Ship on route'.

Player flies to Ekhi in their current ship. The transferred ship is waiting for them having arrived a few seconds before. Docking at Ekhi resets the Galaxy Map ship icon back to normal.

Result: Player has their ship where they want it. They only made one journey to Ekhi. The transferred ship took the same amount of time to get there as they did (not perfect but reasonable). No timers were necessary. No FTL communication. No teleportation. No magic. No immersion has been broken. No extra time spent waiting at stations for ships to arrive. No real performance hit to the server as it is only making a single calculation. No complicated database calls - it's simply updating one join table record with the new location of the ship and setting a flag to say it is 'on route'.

YW

This solution is not a solution. I am still driving an Explorer Bus everywhere damn place. Just lipstick on a pig.

 

[Yaffle]

I am thinking about this 3D printing explanation used by Frontier.... I was surprised to learn that the ships that carry the fighter hangers could re-print 7-8 ships from one module.
Now im wondering why and how everything else can not be 3D printed. SRV's, missiles, powerplants. Clearly alongside the AFMU we may as well have a 3D general printer module.
Flimley.

Good point.

Speaking of which, how many Flimley Points?

 

[CMDR Robyn Highart]

It's actually pretty clear, but so does dying at beagle's point and "respawning" a second later in the station you last docked.
I see no uproar about that and players who think that's too cheesy play iron man without the sky falling.

There is a choice to wipe the save. However, that choice would mostly only impact the player that has died, not the galaxy. The only way you can exploit this is to make an emergency comeback in case you're needed in the bubble. A one time, rare occurence.

You cannot use this to justify a system that will see the entire galaxy exploit time-cheap transport to completely uproot the economy, CGs, PP, and Wing systems. It's mindbogglingly stupid.

 

[Trueno33]

Sorry for being annoyingly persistent, but if the price is high enough, it doesn't save you time, it trades it from "sitting around fiddling your thumbs" to "making the money back trough some activity that the trip set you back".

But, for heavens sake, you don´t have to sit fiddling your thumbs, you just have to PLAN AHEAD (sorry for the caps but this is really breaking my nerves, I´d better leave this thread now. I really, really hope that FD reconsiders and come to their senses about this change)

 

[Boomer Kay]

Again, I get your point, but it does depend on perspective. If earning credit is your goal, than yes. If gaining rank is your goal, then you have saved time.
Either way, ship transportation changes the game. Good or bad, who know? Right now I'm very sceptical of the currently planned implementation.

Same difference as parking my vette in a good system (which costs nothing) and traveling with the asp or having several vettes scattered across the galaxy (which is the only viable moneysink at the moment and it's not even that much of a moneysink).

 

[PavelKCZ]

I am thinking about this 3D printing explanation used by Frontier.... I was surprised to learn that the ships that carry the fighter hangers could re-print 7-8 ships from one module.
Now im wondering why and how everything else can not be 3D printed. SRV's, missiles, powerplants. Clearly alongside the AFMU we may as well have a 3D general printer module.
Flimley.

Well, you already can 3D print missiles. It is called Synthesis. Also, you can 3D print SRV fuel, Ammo, AFMU ammo etc. The only thing which is not clear to me is - why the hell this 3D printer is not able to print the heatsink ammo.

 

[Lobstris]

There is a quite trivial solution to it: call your ship at the end of your game session, log out, log in the next day and it will have "arrived with 20 hour delay".
That's what I usually do when I get shot down and respawn instantly (main reason is because I usually die because I'm tired so it's bedtime anyway).
And that whole insurance/respawn thing is not really consistent or "instant gameplay", but acknowledging that takes away too much of the argument I guess.

I wish every player would have the willpower to exercise your first solution. As to the second, it has already been acknowledged and covered previously, most eloquently by Sans Darling: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...r-Nay/page39?p=4384274&viewfull=1#post4384274

But could also be summed up with 'two wrongs don't make a right'. Realistic death = No more game. We have to make a concession for that. Things at the other end of the spectrum fall into 'low impact - can be ignored'. Things in the middle. We hold opinions and argue about. Especially if future arguments could be made using them as a springboard (i.e. not allowing the "thin end of the wedge").

(Yeah, I'm back, After I promised I wouldn't, internet still being selectively cruddy).

 

[Boomer Kay]

You cannot use this to justify a system that will see the entire galaxy exploit time-cheap transport to completely uproot the economy, CGs, PP, and Wing systems. It's mindbogglingly stupid.

You think moving your cutter for 10 million to a CG where you make 5 million is mind boggling smart?
Or that saving 10 minute travel time for some bgs action that can take weeks is unbalancing?
Eh.

 

[CMDR Robyn Highart]

Well, you already can 3D print missiles. It is called Synthesis. Also, you can 3D print SRV fuel, Ammo, AFMU ammo etc. The only thing which is not clear to me is - why the hell this 3D printer is not able to print the heatsink ammo.

*Expecto Loretronum* ... Maybe the heatsink modules are extremely efficient super-containers that have a near-perfect insulation, until they are pierced. Maybe it takes advanced facilities and high power of the station services to achieve this seal.

 

[Lord Fondlemaid]

For goodness' sake... It's a science fiction simulation! This breaks the rules of the simulation to an intolerable level. You must be troll. There is no way someone could be so obtuse!

Your subjective opinion of how tolerably the limits of this "simulation" are stretched or broken is entirely worthless to anyone else but yourself. Also, immediate accusations of trolling based on one comment say more about you than they do about me.

 

[Privata]

Well, you already can 3D print missiles. It is called Synthesis. Also, you can 3D print SRV fuel, Ammo, AFMU ammo etc. The only thing which is not clear to me is - why the hell this 3D printer is not able to print the heatsink ammo.

Possible. but if thats the case , I wonder why all ships are dirty and all that?
I mean beyond to make the feeling of ''lived in universe''