2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[Deadspin]

The escape pod is in the offical ED manual. I agree, they can do whatever they want to the ingame lore, but if it just becomes a mess, with nothing making any sense whatsoever, then the game just becomes a series of minigames without any context.

I think people who don't care about the lore need to take a step back. What do you want, a game like angry birds, which has a load of different scenarios but with zero story. Oh its good fun for a bit, but then you discard it. Is this what we want with ED, is this what you want for ED?

I cannot comprehend why people push for cheap lore breaking mechanics which if FDev keep putting into the game will destroy it sooner then later.

Don't get me wrong, I care about the lore, I enjoy it and want more of it to be more easily accessible. However, my experience while in-game is not dependent on every aspect of the lore being adhered to because this is, after all, just a video game.

This game already is a bunch of mini-games tied loosely together in a galaxy that's devoid of life.

 

[KING5TON]

I can't believe that people are still up in arms about the telepresence/instant transfer aspect.
It's about the only good thing about 2.3.
Why aren't you bothered that instead of the 4 interesting roles we were supposed to be getting (for the 1/5 of a seasons that cost as much as a full price game) we're getting 2 new roles that only one third is actually in any way new (controlling turrets).
The lore of it just doesn't add hardly anything meaningful to the game, it's not important, just make up whatever you like.

FD if you are listening just release an in game statement similar to "Due to breakthrough inventions in the technology of telepresence control the pilots federation will soon provide all pilot federation members with the facility to telepresence to other pilot federation members ships anywhere in the galaxy!" Jazz it up however you want just pander to the people that seem to fixate on this to the detriment of the actual game and hopefully a lot of this unhelpful noise will go away.

 

[Winterwalker]

I think people who don't care about the lore need to take a step back. What do you want, a game like angry birds, which has a load of different scenario but with zero story. Oh its good fun for a bit, but then you discard it. Is this what we want with ED, is this what you want for ED?

I just don't think it's a case of that though. You don't, don't see Frontier, standing there proudly announcing telepresence it's 'a new piece of lore, yay!', because it's not. It's a concession to development to allow some limited action in a place remote from your ship, that there are very good technical reasons for anyone (including me and you, who DO want a consistent universe) to take half a step back from and let slide because I bet you any money (especially after the instant ship transfer debate, and vote and concession by the devs) that it is NOT Frontier saying .. you want wanted realistic ship transfers? OK, well take THAT instant telepresence Cmdr avatar ghosts, haha!

Count to ten Commander. Remote Assistant Crew, is not the same lore thing, as teleported bodies. OK? [up] o7

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Well, if it's Lore you're fussed about...
Elite is a growing video game, frequently updated to bring what the developers belive are exciting new updates, no doubt in union with their own vision of the future of the game. You had to know that lore would take a hit at some point of the development. It's never going to be the holy grail of space role playing, and making shortcuts here and there to make gameplay more accessible to everyone, is bound to happen at several stages. You're better off looking for your lore in a book.

Or maybe they will have a Galnet article fleshed out with the backstory of telepresence. Would that fix anything? Would probably seem cheap by alot of people, but then again, it is what I outlined above, a growing game. The majority will just take it for what it is.

No it wouldn't as it would be crap. I can live with it, I would just like a better explanation for it which isn't lore breaking telepresence. As stated it renders lots of the game redundant including parts of the last update 2.2.

I don't mind the instant part, I have said this again and again, i am fine with it as long as it has a good reason for it. Trying to shoehorn it in, which then makes a mockery of their last update which was only realeased a few months ago is just poor. Some common sense should have applied here.

I would prefer this:
Creating a seperate commander for instant crew multiplay (cannot be used for anything else), you don't get any of the benefits or drawbacks (no bountie for or against you, no combat bonds, no rebuy costs), just instant pew pew with your mate on his/her ship.

If you want the benefits and drawbacks, you need to meet up at the same station to transfer, you get the bounties for and against, Combat bonds, rebuy costs etc.

Then we have something for everyone and it doesn't break the in-game lore. The multicrew commander can be seen as an NPC as they can't interact with the galaxy in any other way.

Is that not a better idea.

 

[Winterwalker]

I would prefer this:
Creating a seperate commander for instant crew multiplay (cannot be used for anything else), you don't get any of the benefits or drawbacks (no bountie for or against you, no combat bonds, no rebuy costs), just instant pew pew with your mate on his/her ship.

In time ... 100%. Yes?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I just don't think it's a case of that though. You don't, don't see Frontier, standing there proudly announcing telepresence it's 'a new piece of lore, yay!', because it's not. It's a concession to development to allow some limited action in a place remote from your ship, that there are very good technical reasons for anyone (including me and you, who DO want a consistent universe) to take half a step back from and let slide because I bet you any money (especially after the instant ship transfer debate, and vote and concession by the devs) that it is NOT Frontier saying .. you want wanted realistic ship transfers? OK, well take THAT instant telepresence Cmdr avatar ghosts, haha!

Count to ten Commander. Remote Assistant Crew, is not the same lore thing, as teleported bodies. OK? [up] o7

As said, I'm all for the instant bit, just give a better ingame reason for it. Even if its: you are controlling one of the crew on your friends ship, but they suspiciously look just like you.

I would be fine with that. As it doen't potentially cause problems further down the line lore wise.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't get me wrong, I care about the lore, I enjoy it and want more of it to be more easily accessible. However, my experience while in-game is not dependent on every aspect of the lore being adhered to because this is, after all, just a video game.

This game already is a bunch of mini-games tied loosely together in a galaxy that's devoid of life.

That is true, but I don't want to make that worse. We shouldn't be loosening it more.

 

[Winterwalker]

As said, I'm all for the instant bit, just give a better ingame reason for it. Even if its: you are controlling one of the crew on your friends ship, but they suspiciously look just like you.

I would be fine with that. As it doen't potentially cause problems further down the line lore wise.

Genuine o7.

Spoiler

I looked at it. Quantum Entanglement (EPR Paradox on Bell's Theory). With entangled particles (a limited number of, depending on the size of encoder) you could get a FTL communication but with LOW bandwidth which (in the lore according to Winterwalker means) you can push a few buttons, just about fly a fighter if your signal is relayed via the ship to the fighter, but not much more than that. (It's a signal that does need a decoder, wouldn't fit in fighter or SRV and Bank of Zaonce, standard firewall plus physical security, means you can't rob the bank either, dammit).

edit ----

Spoiler

The only problem with quantum tunneling is, obviously the tunnel has to travel some kind of dimension. It seems core dynamics have been testing remote crew in their laboratory, Cambridge and there's no telling whether there's any link to recent sightings of aliens, that folklore tells us occupy a dimension spoken of by drunks as "witchspace". It certainly seems to this researcher that if there are alien sentients out there with any control of witchspace, or who have detected the Cambridge research, there could be potential for those Guardians to disrupt signals, essentially disabling telepresent control, interstellar, that uses quantum entanglement to operate. Radio range telepresence, eg. fighter control direct from ship would probably not be affected however.

 

[ZeroAi]

Wow, lots of divided feedback about the "insta-join" feature of multicrew.

To me it's a valid question to ask if being able to instantly join the crew of another ship in "open" will unbalance the gameplay for those players who play in "open" and prefer not to take part in multi-crew. If it did, it would definitely be a negative for those players and I would expect them to be quite unhappy.

However, if Multi-crew doesn't unbalance "open" play, then since it doesn't affect the gameplay of "open" players who aren't going to use Multi-crew, I hope FD will stay the course and add this QoL feature that many want.

Personally, I think FD already put a whole lot of thought into Multi-crew and feels the current implementation is the right mix of fun and balance. And I for one look forward to using Multi-crew "insta-join" with my friends in Private Group play (this old man prefers to spend his limited game time in PvE versus PvP.)

Grey

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Guys....

The insta-join thing has little to no impact on gameplay.

The conspicuous absence of actual, engaging roles for multicrew members to engage in is a very big deal...

Could we please focus on what matters? The feature is here whether we teleport to our location or not. Let's try to make it a functional feature that we actually use.

 

[Max Stingray]

No it wouldn't as it would be crap. I can live with it, I would just like a better explanation for it which isn't lore breaking telepresence. As stated it renders lots of the game redundant including parts of the last update 2.2.

I don't mind the instant part, I have said this again and again, i am fine with it as long as it has a good reason for it. Trying to shoehorn it in, which then makes a mockery of their last update which was only realeased a few months ago is just poor. Some common sense should have applied here.

I would prefer this:
Creating a seperate commander for instant crew multiplay (cannot be used for anything else), you don't get any of the benefits or drawbacks (no bountie for or against you, no combat bonds, no rebuy costs), just instant pew pew with your mate on his/her ship.

If you want the benefits and drawbacks, you need to meet up at the same station to transfer, you get the bounties for and against, Combat bonds, rebuy costs etc.

Then we have something for everyone and it doesn't break the in-game lore. The multicrew commander can be seen as an NPC as they can't interact with the galaxy in any other way.

Is that not a better idea.

+1

I couldn't agree more.
- Consistency preserved? Check
- Easy of use for instant pew pew fix with mates? Check

I would add that if you do join a ship as the main character, by being at the same station or similar, then you could be the helm (not the captain who is always the owner and retains the right to eject people) I would be happy even if this was a later feature.

 

[Greyza Badger]

Some people have obviously had their line-in-the-sand crossed by the Telepresence mechanic.

For those whose line hasn't been crossed yet, where is your line?
What would you consider a step too far?
Unlimited FSD jump range? No gravity effects in SC?

Not a trick question, just curious how different people frame gameplay 'fun' over a certain amount of 'realism', no matter how you define it.

 

[Winterwalker]

The conspicuous absence of actual, engaging roles for multicrew members to engage in is a very big deal...

True that's where the focus of discussion should be.
I'm not sure it's destablising in any important gameplay way though, I quite like the proposal as it stands.
Lorewise (I do suggest) some slack.

Testing will tell of course, and could go further, but for what it is? +1

 

[dumbo]

Not a trick question, just curious how different people frame gameplay 'fun' over a certain amount of 'realism', no matter how you define it.

But there is no realism in the game, other than the galaxy itself. What part of ED do you think is realistic?

[a 'realistic' sim could be made, but frankly I don't think I'd be interested in it]

 

[Greyza Badger]

But there is no realism in the game, other than the galaxy itself. What part of ED do you think is realistic?

[a 'realistic' sim could be made, but frankly I don't think I'd be interested in it]

That's the point...different people have different thresholds, hence the '-----'.
I now have a rough approximation of your thresholds. Thanks for answering. See, no judging.

 

[mossfoot]

Just had to throw in another point regarding those trying to "lore" justify telepresence:

You don't NEED to justify it with lore. At all.

Think of it as a temporary secondary account. As far as the captain is concerned, that crew has always been on the ship (at least since the last station) but are doing other things on board until called to the bridge. I'm all in for immersion, but this is a case where any attempt at lore explanation only hurts things, not helps.


Case in point, ejecting. People have tried to argue the fact that zero time passes from ship destruction to getting a new ship to claim that we are all clones. There is no other way to explain the time issue.

Except in Elite cloning is illegal in the Federation, and the Empire only uses it in terms of organs. If you could clone people easily, then why didn't they simply clone the Emperor when he was assassinated? How can pilots afford it but not heads of state?

This so-called "fix" meant to explain an in game mechanic actually destroys the lore.

Yet the time issue exists. So what do we do?

IGNORE IT.

As far as lore is concerned, we eject, are rescued, returned to a station, revived, checked out by medical, given insurance forms to fill out, and eventually given a new ship. Lore wise it's hours or days later. The fact it is seconds in game is simply a necessary convenience.

Same thing with multicrew. You try to explain full VR telepresence across the galaxy in lore, you will only hurt the lore.

----

In my opinion the far better solution to this problem comes with the Character Creator.

We should be able to create our avatar, and have an option of a second avatar for use in multi-crew. We could have the option of simply copying our personal avatar for simplicity sake, but create a secondary "look" to use elsewhere if we want, just to reinforce that temporary second account element.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

True that's where the focus of discussion should be.
I'm not sure it's destablising in any important gameplay way though, I quite like the proposal as it stands.
Lorewise (I do suggest) some slack.

Testing will tell of course, and could go further, but for what it is? +1

Put yourself in the shoes of the multicrew member instead of the person at the helm, and tell me what you think is missing in the dev update.

 

[Martian Successor]

My Reaction to 2.3 and what I'd want to see from Frontier going forward

Apparently this well of lost souls is the only place FD are reading up on reactions to 2.3 according to the mods so here ya go guys:

Bearing in mind that so far we only have a single paragraph of facts about multi-crew; yes, I do hope Frontier will work towards improving multi-crew because by the sound of things it is going to be a very early bare bones place holder type of addition.

Two things I really want from Frontier:
1) Expand upon the groundwork of the NPC SLF crew feature and give us the ability to obtain (by hiring or rescuing from escape pods) our very own NPC copilots that we can use aboard every two-seater ship in the game. Complete with physical bodies that occupy the chair next to us for that ultimate Han Solo and Chewbacca wish fulfillment/fun.

2) Do not let the current need for the existence/placeholder of telepresence (because you [FD] are giving us multi-crew before legs) be an excuse to turn space legs into a cheap gimmick - a lot of people are looking forward to the substance of walking around.

Frontier decided to put multicrew in first before allowing our CMDRs to walk so therefore we have a bit of a jarring moment at this point in time where the cart has been placed before the horse - kind of like putting in Engineers that require commodity storage before commodity storage even exists. With a little planning and forethought it is possible to have both walking and the telepresence shortcut without disenfranchising anyone.

Multi-crew already gives us a hint as to how this can be done. For example, if you board a ship by actually walking into it you get to sit in chairs and get up and walk around while it travels, visit the kitchen with the pilot, have them show you their living quarters (ooh saucy! ). If you warp into a ship via telepresence you can only sit in the chair and look around. Functions/ability to fiddle with pips, etc should remain the same whether you physically walk in or jack in via the Matrix.

I want Frontier to eventually insert walking around (when they are ready with it) as the fundamental foundation stone of our CMDRs' ability to move around our own ships in first person view and to move outside of our ships/SRV. I want to have the choice to feel as though it is a seamless transition as apposed to a jarring shortcut, i.e. loading screen via cut to black. For this to happen telepresence will not have to be removed, ever. But Frontier must acknowledge that telepresence is merely a placeholder until they can give us legs rather than going forth treating telepresence warping as being the main focus and legs being something that gets slapped in half-heartedly with the mentality of "it's just an eccentric gimmick now."

I of course have no idea how Frontier regards the telepresence shortcut in the grand scheme of things because they don't communicate these things with us so I can only offer you my thoughts on how I think it should be as a player.

The existence of telepresence will not gel as well as it should until we get the update that lets us first start walking around inside ships - our own and others. Then players can rationalise the telepresence placeholder as what it truly is: an optional shortcut placed for the sake of gameplay convenience but also possible within the lore, i.e. we can physically walk but we can also project a stationary solid hologram. And then we can get actual gameplay purposes out of telepresence vs physically boarding a ship. For example, physically walking aboard means you can walk around the ship and occupy control stations at your whim. Projecting your telepresence over there will only allow you to look around but not get up and walk around.

This is how I think it should go in any case in order to allow everyone a choice and to make everybody happy without treating either legs or telepresence like a cheap gimmick.

Thanks kindly for reading [up]

 

[sedilbur]

happy with the announcement.

The tele-presence does not disturb me at all. If you don't want to use it...just don't use it.

Let the other have some nice QOL with it.

I plan to play with a friend but he does not play Elite for multiple months now. Occasionally, He connects to the game and play with me. But we are always far from each other. I always take my ASP to reach him fast. But with the telepresence, It wills help me.
As I am totally invested into the engineer...I am always at the edge of the Human bubble. XD thx Frontier =p it's your fault ^^

BUT I must admit...multi crew just for combat is a little sad. I hope this system will have more improvement in the future.

Fly save CMDRs.

Crash

 

[Craith]

I'm a big fan of ED and I am also looking forward to multicrew.

I hope that 2x SRV will be possible (or 3x if you have enough with you). this will allow us to explore canyons together and open the door to lots of fun and cooperation.

I sincerely hope that the limited roles will expanded in the future ... engineer with control of defensive features, vectoring the shields, finetuning cooling and repairs, maybe some on the fly mods.

But one thing irks me since 2.2 - telepresence. IMO it creates more inconsistencies than it solves, some handwavium solution like with your own escape pod would be a better solution. why can I suffocate if I am not there? why is there a pilot in the cockpit?
It greatly limits what is possible now and in the future (no sending the ship away while in the SLF, 30km range limit ...)
I am a big immersion fan, but telepresence hurts it way more than some handwavium (I'd prefer if you'd have to dock to start multicrew, but the merits of it being possible everywhere nearly equal it for me).

so please FD ... no Teletubbies, let us be there in person and man those vacant chairs!

ps: I'll blame autocorrect for the tubbies ... oops

 

[Deadspin]

Elite is a game of inconsistencies..

1: How does your pilot survive in hard vacuum with no canopy or no shield while taking direct projectile fire from another ship, possibly even head on, while flying at hundreds of meters per second through a planetary mineral belt that is chock full of marble and fist sized particles?

2: How does an automated docking computer take up literally tons of space in the TYOOL 3300+ while in 2015 a Honda Accord can park itself with a module the size of a desk phone?

3: How do sensors, unimpeded by air, atmosphere, clouds, rain or literally anything else have a max range of 6-7km while taking up, again, literal tons of space while today, aircraft can pick out other aircraft in the atmosphere from over 150km away (or greater) with a sensor package the size of a large suitcase?

4: "Sim" - Limited speeds in space.

5: Can receive Galnet news articles from 400ly away, can't check the local market of the same system.

6: Externally mounted missiles can somehow overheat your power plant.

7: Somehow you can channel all of that excess heat into a hockey puck and eject it out into space.

8: Fuel scooping from a star.

I mean.. how many inconsistencies and handwavium events do I need to list? You guys (royal you) can't just pick and choose which events to handwave when it suits you.

Stop crying about telepresence.