2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[Sterling MH]

He is not thinking up reasons to change the game, just showing why it doesn't make any sense.

By making up reasons why it doesn't. And then saying something needs to change. Instead of coming up what would make sense. I did it.

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ah so it will only be the BIG ships which will do multi-crew - Annie, Beluga (not sure why you'd use this for combat though!), Corvette and Cutter...

Cobra has 2 seats. There's a thread on the main forum with a list of how many seats people can see and count. Go look there for the current list of ships. Ships with 1 seat can't multi-crew.

(Note: Adder is the smallest and cheapest ship with a second seat).

 

[DMaster]

And ASP and Cobra and FdL and ....

 

[Sterling MH]

Apologies for the TLDR here, but have we discussed whether or not there'll be a "tele-passenger" option? I've got several friends who would love to pop in and see what it's all about before they invest fully in the game. It would be nice if there was some sort of free client where they could simply occupy that 'spare seat' and see what I'm up to - but not be able to affect the ship.

I've seen that there's a demo, but it may not connect to anything, since a player in a demo either doesn't instance into the same game as you, or they can pewpew things up and change the universe.

Any likely demo would probably have to be Arena play. And there's a thread on how to make it better on the discussion main forum too.

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Which this update renders obsolete: You only require one person at the helm. The rest can be literally anywhere in the known galaxy and control your ship functions (or launch a fighter). Yet, NPC crew have to physically be there.

Yes. You. In the seat.

And who says that the NPC is dead? They could have decided "Fudge this" and gone to someone else to work for. At more money, now that they're ranked from working with you. And if they're above Dangerous (I think), they don't appear because they've now signed up to the Pilots Federation, like you, and get a freeewinder and 100% of the profit.

So, nope, it's still absolutely fine.

Stop looking for things to explain why it doesn't. Or start asking yourself how it could work. I've had to do all that for you, and many many MANY others.

Why is it I'm so much more imaginative than all these people???

EDIT: to be clear, the NPC might not have to be there. But they don't want to be stuck in your ship's cockpit seats. Maybe the connection to the SLF can't be daisychained, therefore there would be no way to get that crewmember out to the SLF if they weren't much nearer. And those NPCs would, in the SLF, be just as liable to have a longer ping time (esp. if it had to be rerouted) and network crashes, either of which could happen and strand you without an SLF instantly and without warning.

And then no way to ask them to come back in to your ship, because they were never there to begin with.

 

[Lokus Midgard]

ah so it will only be the BIG ships which will do multi-crew - Annie, Beluga (not sure why you'd use this for combat though!), Corvette and Cutter...

The developers have already said that this should help out transport ships. The entire T-series should benefit from it. The problem with that is whether people will have the patience to sit around and do nothing in the hope of being interdicted.

Sod's Law being what it is, you might open yourself to allow random people to come aboard, find they vacate because nothing's going on and that's the precise moment you need them!

Cobra has 2 seats. There's a thread on the main forum with a list of how many seats people can see and count. Go look there for the current list of ships. Ships with 1 seat can't multi-crew.

(Note: Adder is the smallest and cheapest ship with a second seat).

I think someone already mentioned that the Keelback doesn't have any visible seat in the cockpit, yet must have one located somewhere else on the ship for NPC crews to operate fighters.

 

[Sterling MH]

The developers have already said that this should help out transport ships. The entire T-series should benefit from it. The problem with that is whether people will have the patience to sit around and do nothing in the hope of being interdicted.

Sod's Law being what it is, you might open yourself to allow random people to come aboard, find they vacate because nothing's going on and that's the precise moment you need them!



I think someone already mentioned that the Keelback doesn't have any visible seat in the cockpit, yet must have one located somewhere else on the ship for NPC crews to operate fighters.

The T6 doesn't. The Keelback only has 1 as well because it's a T6.

And the fighter could be spending their time in a bunkroom. No way to control ship options from there, unless you get out of the seat, TP to the SLF, and they can then take the helm.

So the keelback doesn't need a multicrew seat.

 

[Kayweg]

It is not a question of the gamemmode, it is a question of the gamestyle. If you don't want to Play with others, then this specific Feature of 2.3 will not be viable for you, but perhaps an other one, announced in the next few weeks. And to be fair: This is the first Feature can not be used by singeplayer gamestyle.

Minor correction, the second one.
Wings

 

[JesusRocks1988]

Who has said anything like that? The main complaint is that, if its only use is going to be combat, then why bother adding it? Plus there is the concern about potential imbalances with how you join multi-crew. All that other stuff you claim is pure fiction.

Pure fiction? I think not. Go and have a read of the locked 2.3 threads, there's a lot of posts with that jist - obviously I'm not directly quoting here. I remember the same arguments being made about 2.2 as well. And I have definitely at various times seen posts saying that Powerplay is a pointless addition, and that Wings is pointless because less than [insert arbitrary percentage here] of the community use them. Usually these are in threads that are just a massive complaint about the game.

I'm not talking about the people who are concerned with the details of how these features will play out, but I am surprised at the number of people I've seen posting that it's a pile of junk, or a pointless addition, or the old chesnut that FD shouldn't add any of this stuff to the game because it takes away from fixing this or that... look around, you'll see it. It seems to be more concentrated with this update though.

You DO know that the forum isn't a person, but a place where many different people write stuff, don't you?

Absolutely, but what I'm seeing is individuals ranting and reeling off these kinds of lists - like 1 person ranting about 10 different things, rather than 10 people ranting about 1 different thing each.

I don't know, maybe I'm just noticing it now because of the sheer amount of threads that popped up containing general vitriol within a day of the Dev Update. I'm sure this stuff was more spread out when it came to 2.2.

 

[Lokus Midgard]

Yes. You. In the seat.

And who says that the NPC is dead? They could have decided "Fudge this" and gone to someone else to work for. At more money, now that they're ranked from working with you. And if they're above Dangerous (I think), they don't appear because they've now signed up to the Pilots Federation, like you, and get a freeewinder and 100% of the profit.

So, nope, it's still absolutely fine.

Stop looking for things to explain why it doesn't. Or start asking yourself how it could work. I've had to do all that for you, and many many MANY others.

Why is it I'm so much more imaginative than all these people???

I'm going by what Frontier, themselves, have stated on the matter: If your ship gets destroyed, then they are dead. That has just as much weight as their declaration that this is supposedly going to be made possible by remote piloting. If you accept one, then you accept the other.

Also not sure why every single NPC, ever, would all try to blame you for a mission's failure if the reason wasn't necessarily your fault (many of their biographies tend to mention something about it supposedly being their life's dream to be an escort fighter pilot, too). If Frontier revised the 'they're dead' decision and replaced it with a morale mechanic, that would be interesting. Whether or not they quit your service and terminated the contract, would depend on how much they've come to trust you and whether or not the system regarded you as provoking the last hostile encounter.

I remember the game of 'The Thing', years ago, where a trust mechanic was incorporated and it helped to introduce a simulation of paranoia really well.

 

[JesusRocks1988]

Then you reading wrong and could do with revisiting secondary school reading comprehension classes. Here, I'll translate:

- Multi-crew (as described) is pointless, FD shouldn't add it (like it's described. Either do better or work on season3).
- Commander Creator is (nice side feature)
- Ship Launched Fighters are (fine, but serve less utility than most would like).
- Passenger Missions (should have been in the base game. Saving it for an update then making them warm cargo is underwhelming).
- Every update we've had since 2.0 is (flawed and should have had more forethought).
- None of this (is as interesting as what was described in) the DDF.
- All of this (is more unfulfilled potential of this amazing game).

But even after all that I still see loads of the following:

- Wings are (another missed opportunity, a function without reason)
- Planetary landings are (Shallow), FD should have (worked harder on) them.
- SRVs are (fine, but lacking purpose), FD should have added (more for them to do).
- Skimmers are exploitable, FD should (fix them)
- Powerplay is pointless, FD should never had added it. (ok this one is true)
- CQC is pointless, FD shouldn't have added it. ( ok, so is this one.)

And yet, for all the posts that appreciate these qualifiers to the statements above, there are still an insane amount that are just purely "it's rubbish get rid of it", and not just "as it is currently". They're the ones I'm noticing.

 

[Pauciloquent]

I'm going to repeat what I suggested earlier back at #520 (and at least one other has as well) Let's have two avatars, one for the CMDR and one for the CREW and use the CREW avatar in multi-crew insted of using the CMDR telepresence thing... it still won't make perfect sense (if any at all) but I think it's better than the telepresence thing, If anyone asks where you've been all this time just say you've been stuck in the air-lock or cargo-bay or something... and if the CMDR says welcome aboard, you'll just pause for a second then say I'VE BEEN HERE FOR OVER TWO YEARS!!!! (well... if they have had the ship that long that is)

 

[Quester91]

I'm going to repeat what I suggested earlier back at #520 (and at least one other has as well) Let's have two avatars, one for the CMDR and one for the CREW and use the CREW avatar in multi-crew insted of using the CMDR telepresence thing... it still won't make perfect sense (if any at all) but I think it's better than the telepresence thing, If anyone asks where you've been all this time just say you've been stuck in the air-lock or cargo-bay or something... and if the CMDR says welcome aboard, you'll just pause for a second then say I'VE BEEN HERE FOR OVER TWO YEARS!!!! (well... if they have had the ship that long that is)

Fully agree, it's the best solution.

 

[Kayweg]

So for those of us who only play in Solo, (i.e. no Open or Group play), is there anything in the 2.3 update that benefits us? It seems as if FD are focusing primarily on pushing people to Open/Group, whereas Solo players seem to be 2nd class citizens. Genuinely curious to know whether there will be feature parity between modes. I don't see any reason why NPC AI can't be used to fulfil the roles of multi-crew..

Character creator and new camera system, and we don't know what else might be in 2.3 that could be for us solo players too.
We have to accept that ED is also an open world multi-player game.
Expecting every headline feature to adress all play styles would be unreasonable.

 

[Magic Man]

Everyone seems to be talking telepresence but have FD actually given that as an in game explanation?
Why does there need to be an in game 'lore' explanation? Just enable it as a straightforward game mechanic.

Each multi crew capable ship can have an NPC - I personally have no issue with a real life player taking on that role whether or not the commander already has NPCs in place. It doesn't need to be explained in game lore, it's just a member of a potential crew you can have being fulfilled by a real life player somewhere.

I don't think that all should get the maximum monetary rewards, it should be split.

 

[Lowe1978]

I'm liking the sound of the new and improved camera. Can I please, please ask that as part of that the high resolution screenshot option is looked at for us VR users? Currently if I take a high res shot it captures a 'barrel' shaped screenshot due to it snapping one of the Rift's screens, rather than an upscaled version of the secondary monitor. I love taking beauty shots to use for desktop backgrounds etc, and since I've moved over to VR I can no longer do this.

 

[DMaster]

Minor correction, the second one.
Wings

Right, but as i do not use it, i hadn't it in my mind. But its not that dramatic to say singleplayers are people of second class.

 

[Barking_Mad]

In the end the game can only be judged properly when FDev announce that specific parts of the game are now complete and will receive no more additions. In between then and now everything else is purely a comment about the current state of the game. This is fine, but it's a bit like standing behind a painter and complaining he's painted all the sky but none of the land. Like most people more detail on stuff that's been asked about would be nice but at the same time Frontier have got expectations to manage and this game has some pretty heavy expectations around it.

Im hope/think that when they start fleshing out the rest of the update some people will have a change of heart.

 

[Tryst]

When I saw multicrews were coming, I was really hoping that we would be actually taking other players somewhere, not just an avatar of them while they remained in whatever station they were docked in.

Imagine ferrying your friend to a station to pick up his new ship and such. Sidewinders are cheap so there's no real problem with getting stranded somewhere, all it needs is for a sidey to be available anywhere like a shuttle in Eve, not necessarily a shipyard in every station but a broker who will sell one in every station. In fact, it would make for a lot more immersion of players could put up passenger missions on a global BBS so passenger ship pilots can pick them up from one place and take them to another for a fee. You spend whatever time it takes to get there in a passenger cabin where you can sit, sleep or just freshen up on the way.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I'm going to repeat what I suggested earlier back at #520 (and at least one other has as well) Let's have two avatars, one for the CMDR and one for the CREW and use the CREW avatar in multi-crew insted of using the CMDR telepresence thing... it still won't make perfect sense (if any at all) but I think it's better than the telepresence thing, If anyone asks where you've been all this time just say you've been stuck in the air-lock or cargo-bay or something... and if the CMDR says welcome aboard, you'll just pause for a second then say I'VE BEEN HERE FOR OVER TWO YEARS!!!! (well... if they have had the ship that long that is)

Agreed, a much better solution.

 

[Sterling MH]

I'm going by what Frontier, themselves, have stated on the matter: If your ship gets destroyed, then they are dead.

1) Linky plz
2) OK, so they don't use TP when it would make sense to. Blame the NPCs. Tell them to use the TP mechanism. Maybe they'll listen.

 

[Ian Phillips]

....This is the first Feature can not be used by singeplayer gamestyle.

Psst...Wings.....