2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[Sterling MH]

Geez guys, why do some of you REQUIRE a sciencey reason for the instatravel. It's a damn game! Newsflash, none of us are flying spaceships. What I would like Frontier to do is make some moves toward making Elite a more enjoyable game to play for once. And this actually seems properly in that direction. Can we please have function over form, can you immersion over everything else folks throw us a bloody bone this time. I'd actually like to have fun playing this and not require millions of grindy credits, thousands of grindy lightyears and hours of bloody sitting and waiting in a station just to meet up with the group.

There may be some false flag and poisoning the well going on. If the "Immersion crowd" get a bad enough rep, then what's asked for that's sorta gamebreaking that's met with "But that's unrealistic" will be countered by people who only saw the shouting after 2.3 about the insta-port.

So don't prejudge arguments based on the call of "Immersion", because a lot of the time, the game is a simulation and makes design choices to keep it "feeling" realistic. And that's really all "Immersion" is. The attempt to help you suspend your disbelief.

 

[Mengy]

Back on the topic of feedback for the 2.3 update.....

Frontier, can we please soon get more information on what this enhanced camera feature will be?

Since multicrew is combat only, the camera thing has now become the feature of 2.3 I'm most looking forward to, and I'd like to know some more details about what is being done with it. Things I'd love to see it have:

• Faster panning than the debug camera
• Farther distance from target than the debug camera
• Ability to pan off center from vehicle
• Preset positions we can save, with quick keys to snap right to them
• Special effects, like variable depths of field and glare/brightness settings

Thanks!

 

[pryzm]

Geez guys, why do some of you REQUIRE a sciencey reason for the instatravel. It's a damn game! Newsflash, none of us are flying spaceships. What I would like Frontier to do is make some moves toward making Elite a more enjoyable game to play for once. And this actually seems properly in that direction. Can we please have function over form, can you immersion over everything else folks throw us a bloody bone this time. I'd actually like to have fun playing this and not require millions of grindy credits, thousands of grindy lightyears and hours of bloody sitting and waiting in a station just to meet up with the group.

Well said, I feel exactly the same. The immersionists have had their way far to many times.. it's about time common sense for gameplay takes the front seat.. it's a damn game.. not everything needs an explanation.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Because we also suffocate due to lack of oxygen?

They just added the appearance of suffocation because it adds immersion for telepresense.

 

[LeoBartlet]

This isn't the dark ages. For 9/10 games these days, one of the first things you do is trawl the forums....or is that just me?

IF the average player of this game has any common sense they'll stay clear of the forum.

Its nothing more than a rabid immersion fest full of people who barely realises it's not 1984 anymore and and moan about every little thing done by the developers to the game.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Back on the topic of feedback for the 2.3 update.....

Frontier, can we please soon get more information on what this enhanced camera feature will be?

Since multicrew is combat only, the camera thing has now become the feature of 2.3 I'm most looking forward to, and I'd like to know some more details about what is being done with it. Things I'd love to see it have:

• Faster panning than the debug camera
• Farther distance from target than the debug camera
• Ability to pan off center from vehicle
• Preset positions we can save, with quick keys to snap right to them
• Special effects, like variable depths of field and glare/brightness settings

Thanks!

I think the first question that need answered is...is this camera deployable in the same way that the current debug camera is? In other words, is it something anyone can do at any time, or is it only for ships with turrets, or an active multicrew person? I for one am not going to use it at all if I have to have a turret, SLF, or another person on my ship.

- - - Updated - - -

Well said, I feel exactly the same. The immersionists have had their way far to many times.. it's about time common sense for gameplay takes the front seat.. it's a damn game.. not everything needs an explanation.

If by immersion, you mean internal consistency, then actually, I think any game really should remain internally consistent, and every aspect should play by the same rules as the rest of the game...otherwise we may as well be playing Fizbin.

 

[akaliel]

If by immersion, you mean internal consistency, then actually, I think any game really should remain internally consistent, and every aspect should play by the same rules as the rest of the game...otherwise we may as well be playing Fizbin.

At least you'd be playing something. Instead of condemning thousands of gamers to staring at a timer while they wait for their mates to make a 300 ly jump to the same station all so you guys can pretend your actually in a space ship. If you all want to play that way, then by all means make your own internal rules for it. But don't force the rest of us to twiddling our thumbs for the sake of your imagination.

 

[Red Anders]

Weird, perhaps it was all telepresents all along, and we really ARE the CMDRS. [woah]

If we could just sort out the people who think they're using telepresence to control the devs we'd be onto a winner.

 

[Ozram]

At least you'd be playing something. Instead of condemning thousands of gamers to staring at a timer while they wait for their mates to make a 300 ly jump to the same station all so you guys can pretend your actually in a space ship. If you all want to play that way, then by all means make your own internal rules for it. But don't force the rest of us to twiddling our thumbs for the sake of your imagination.

If you are referring to the previous discussions on instant transfer, I think you will find the majority do not share your opinion. I imagine the same holds true here. Consistency within the rules of the game universe is not nessessarily realism, but it is important.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

At least you'd be playing something. Instead of condemning thousands of gamers to staring at a timer while they wait for their mates to make a 300 ly jump to the same station all so you guys can pretend your actually in a space ship. If you all want to play that way, then by all means make your own internal rules for it. But don't force the rest of us to twiddling our thumbs for the sake of your imagination.

And for other reasons as well as the immersion and inconsistency, a lot of players have been doing just that and leaving open mode. I think this update has a very distinct possibility of driving even more out of open into PG's and solo...the exact opposite of what the intention is, but looking at things, and if they are implemented as described, I do not see this as even a short term benefit to bring more people long term into open play.

And aside from the instant drop in drop out, to which there is no possible explanation for, so I wish people would just stop trying, and which the majority of people here agree needs to remain instant, that is the least of the consistency issues...

Why can crew members opt for credit or crimes? Why crew members get full payout each, where a single player destroying the same ship, only get half or a third of the total payout? Why the same for wings? Why can two telepresence fighters exist if the ship is multi crewed, and only one if it is a sinlge pilot? Why can the AI fly the main ship if it is a sinlge player, but not when it is multi player? Why can players control fighters and not SRV's?

Those are all internal inconsistencies that have nothing at all to do with the whole instapew crowd. In fact, this thread...the whole instatravel things has not really been much of a question or an issue..tons of other crap that just simply makes no sense at all within the rules of the game.

 

[akaliel]

If you are referring to the previous discussions on instant transfer, I think you will find the majority do not share your opinion. I imagine the same holds true here. Consistency within the rules of the game universe is not nessessarily realism, but it is important.

Actually I voted for non instant transfers. Though I don't agree with the cost and time they settled on.

 

[Ozram]

Actually I voted for non instant transfers. Though I don't agree with the cost and time they settled on.

I see. And what to you think of the notion that perhaps what is being suggested here would be better implemented by a requirement to have NPC crew in your ship to represent warm bodies when players com in for the multicrew?

 

[akaliel]

I see. And what to you think of the notion that perhaps what is being suggested here would be better implemented by a requirement to have NPC crew in your ship to represent warm bodies when players com in for the multicrew?

Unnecessary. I prefer exactly what Frontier posted, and was what I was hoping they would do for this feature. Every constraint and limitation added only reduces my game time. Of which I seem to have very little of these days.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

And I'll add on to what I said earlier...

Based on what has been explicitly stated by the devs...extra pips simply for having human crew members??? Where does that fit into any kind of consistency? Since we don't know anything about how other professions are going to be handled with regard to things like trade profits, mission payouts, exploration data and first discovered tags, I'll point straight at combat. Combat rank is calculated based on profits from blowing up ships. Yes, opponent rank factors in, but if, as stated, crew get equal and full payout, how does it make sense that a person can now make Elite Combat without ever flying a ship, or even firing a shot? I guess the Combat Elite rank is now essentially meaningless...

I get that all the nonsensical, just because incentives is an attempt to get people to crew up, but come on...it just feels more like it is because there just isn't any other reason for people to do it such as the fun and excitement. In the end, most people play this game because they like to fly their own ship. If it was really going to be good enough on it's own, they wouldn't need that crap to get people to do it. Besides, I am not sure the incentives are going to be enough to hold peoples interest...credits are basically free for the taking in this game anyway to the point where I don't think there is a significant player population that will be doing it for the credit incentive, nor do I think even more credits will lure many more in. I think the extra pips, and option to bypass the already laughable criminal charges will be more of an incentive for sockpuppet meta-de-lance griefers, than the casual combat players this is supposedly aimed at...all while making the combat elite rank achievable without even flying a ship or firing a shot.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

And another one I forgot about...rebuy. So a multi crewed ship has a discounted rebuy rate? Why??? I admit, this is one where we need a bit more clarification on, and if it turns out that the full rebuy cost is divided evenly among all crew members, then that is fine, but if it is an arbitrary discount simply as another incentive to get people to actually use this feature then it makes no consistency sense, and does not bring enough to the table to stand on it's own without several incentives...incentives I might add that I don't think will be make or break to get more players to use this feature

...and sockpupet meta-de-lance griefers will be great beneficiaries...and before anyone goes on the whole..who would really buy two more accounts just for the extra pips, reduced rebuy...don't underestimate the desire of players to do absolutely what ever they can to be able to pat them selves on the head and pin a gold star to their own grossly overinflated chests.

 

[z993126]

A thought suddenly occurs to me: the information in the original dev post was deliberately vague and open to misinterpretation in order to sound the waters of the playerbase.

The followup things are going to clarify what was intended from the get-go, and render irrelevant 96% of the related threadnaught whinefests. They're actually looking for the edge-case suggestions that are popping up here and there.

 

[K M Butler]

Telepresence explains a lot the game. Empty stations and outposts because nobody is there. All telepresence. All ships are unmanned. Telepresence. Living in microgravity is not a problem because your not actually there. The commanders are not actually exploring, trucking, griefing or whatever because there all in their living rooms on the habitable planets with a VR and HOTAS.

This explains and rationalizes the game and design choices nicely, and makes things convenient for those who would rather ED was an arcade game (whether they admit it or not). To those like me who want more of a feel I'M IN SPACE!, The whole concept comes across as shallow and pointless to play.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

A thought suddenly occurs to me: the information in the original dev post was deliberately vague and open to misinterpretation in order to sound the waters of the playerbase.

The followup things are going to clarify what was intended from the get-go, and render irrelevant 96% of the related threadnaught whinefests. They're actually looking for the edge-case suggestions that are popping up here and there.

No...I'm pretty sure this does not qualify as vague, considering how specific it is, unles by vague, you meant specific...

Additional Multicrew Benefits and Rules
Every crewmember also has access to a power distributor pip that they can assign dynamically. This is in addition to the standard pips that the helm controls. This extra power distribution allows the ship to operate more effectively, increasing its capabilities in combat.

Ship re-buy premiums are also reduced for each crewmember. Again, the purpose with this is to lower the bar to access and ease of use, especially when dealing with vessels that can cost a lot of credits.

All bounties and vouchers that the helmsman (ship owner) receives are duplicated for each crewmember, making multicrew a great way to have fun with friends without missing out on money-making opportunities.

However, as they share the benefits, so too do they share the punishments. Any crime that the ship suffers is applied to all crewmembers equally. But when a Commander leaves or ends a session, the crew will have the option of avoiding taking the crimes with them, but in doing so, will lose all credits earned. It will be their choice.

 

[Ozram]

Unnecessary. I prefer exactly what Frontier posted, and was what I was hoping they would do for this feature. Every constraint and limitation added only reduces my game time. Of which I seem to have very little of these days.

Ok. So we simply disagree. I think the immediate and profitable ability to magileap onto ships that are empty of anything but the owner is a terrible design choice, especially when there is already an existing and related mechanic in NPC crew. You wouldn't be losing any time, you would simply have a crew in your ship. that would be a nod to a mechanic that makes sense without being too gamely and it would work with already existing mechanics. Certainly you wouldn't be wasting time as compared to the current suggestion, but at least it would make slightly more sense.

 

[z993126]

No...I'm pretty sure this does not qualify as vague, considering how specific it is, unles by vague, you meant specific...

The 'extra pips' in particular does strike me as vague, because there are a number of ways that could be implemented that satisfy the wording given.