... with SLFs. Apparently the range has been extended, for some use cases, just a little bit....
Is that right?? That's interesting.
2.3 dev update feedback mega thread
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Is that right?? That's interesting.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It would seem to be, as Ed agreed in the 2.3 Update thread that multi-crew uses it.
Doesn't need a point. It exists. Telepresence doesn't.
You can give netcode a purpose, like a video game. You can never give telepresence a purpose. It is useless by default.
Focus on what makes the game work. You're just adding to the trash in this thread and working up to an even more glorious non-contribution than I did by starting a controversy about ED's development cycle.
Should I fire that one up again?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If you wish - but it's off-topic for this thread.
And so is a circular argument about a fantasy concept that has no impact on tangible gameplay.
So why are you willing to feed one off-topic subject and not another?
Non random samples have zero statistical significance until you get to absurd sample rates.
Except that they were initially going to argue that transferred ships were "rebuilt" at the station you were transferring to (during the instant phase)... that didn't really fly as a lore explanation for many reasons, and the argument there as well was to simply "not think about it".
"Don't think about it" is a valid excuse in some gameplay mechanics and we shouldn't be fighting tooth and nail to explain WHY something happens when it is necessary for gameplay but doesn't make a lick of sense in what we see on the screen:
Case in point, ejecting. People have tried to argue the fact that zero time passes from ship destruction to getting a new ship to claim that we are all clones. There is no other way to explain the time issue.
Except in Elite cloning is illegal in the Federation, and the Empire only uses it in terms of organs. If you could clone people easily, then why didn't they simply clone the Emperor when he was assassinated? How can pilots afford it but not heads of state?
This so-called "fix" meant to explain an in game mechanic actually destroys the lore.
But the time issue exists. So what do we do?
IGNORE IT.
As far as lore is concerned, we eject, are rescued, returned to a station, revived, checked out by medical, given insurance forms to fill out, and eventually given a new ship. Lore wise it's hours or days later. The fact it is seconds in game is simply a necessary convenience.
Same thing with multicrew. You try to explain full VR telepresence across the galaxy in lore, you will only hurt the lore.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
One is off-topic in your opinion, even though it is discussed in the 2.3 update thread (and Ed agrees that Multi-Crew, the 2.3 update that this thread is about, uses it).
The other is about Frontier's development in general and is not specifically related to this thread, in my opinion, of course.
...what? Tell that to a little robot named Opportunity that's driving around on Mars via telepresence. Tell that to every search-and-rescue drone operator. Tell that to Skype.
So we apparently have this amazing telepresence technology that allows us to handle spaceship systems over infinite distances with no delay...
1. Why do we fly our own ships, instead of manning them remotely? Why do ships even need cockpits and life support?
2. Why do fighter pilots die when shot down, when we can fly them remotely already?
3. Why do we have to fly physically to a faction's base to get paid?
These are just the questions that come off top of my head.
FD may think these points are irrelevant, but then why is David Braben so proud of the scientific foundations of ED in every interview he does?
Shouldn't he start using concepts like "catering to the minimum common denominator", and "gameplay requirements for perpetual playerbase growth"?
1. Why do we fly our own ships, instead of manning them remotely? Why do ships even need cockpits and life support?
2. Why do fighter pilots die when shot down, when we can fly them remotely already?
3. Why do we have to fly physically to a faction's base to get paid?
These are just the questions that come off top of my head.
FD may think these points are irrelevant, but then why is David Braben so proud of the scientific foundations of ED in every interview he does?
Shouldn't he start using concepts like "catering to the minimum common denominator", and "gameplay requirements for perpetual playerbase growth"?
I'm talking about the concept of telepresence in the game. It's just a means of covering up what's behind the curtain. Directly equivalent to "Magic."
Glad to see you're not giving up the effort at a top-notch non-contribution to the purpose of this thread.
People keep insisting FDev is watching this thread.... I sure as hell hope not because if I was watching people debate about the existence/consistency/fallibility of fantasies over critiquing my years of hard work I'd go drown myself in the office lav.
My thoughts exactly. I can only imagine they're shaking their heads while muttering something about "bloody nerds".
It is just a halfway point, much like the word 'handwavium,' you have to think the word 'telepresence' means 'don't worry too much', though there is an in-game example, the (real space) SLF control. I also don't know that FTL needs 'hurt lore' because there are higher sciences than well understood relativity (WAY smaller though and not understood, at all, but shown in laboratories, remote particle entanglement, with the very definite potential to send 'forms of information,' quantum states, FTL). I wouldn't get too hung up there .. but it does give FD wiggle room if we can accept that you could (somehow) zoom to the other ship without breaking laws of relativity because a separate crew Commander account, or a different game mode (like CQC), don't solve the problem that 2.3 also tries to solve, which is to move Your Commander out of the cockpit seat to somewhere else. At least for now (and probably for the forseeable) that's, instantly which relativity would have something to say about! Basically, arguments against telepresence are more or less as not valid as those for but if you do want somewhere to hang your lore hat for now, then at least TP is somewhere you can go.
Ah, pessimist in me says that's not really upping the SLF range.
It's just that with multiple players the instance boundary is irrelevant as both players effectively have their own instance bubble (island?).
With a sole player with a SLF I suspect it will still be 30km.
SLF could be an awesome explorer tool too.
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Ah, pessimist in me says that's not really upping the SLF range.
It's just that with multiple players the instance boundary is irrelevant as both players effectively have their own instance bubble (island?).
With a sole player with a SLF I suspect it will still be 30km.
SLF could be an awesome explorer tool.
I'm staying positive and going to think a second (floating) instance-bubble diameter MIGHT have been added. I can't think of a reason why it needs to be a fixed size (assuming a good handle on traffic entering)? If he left the island you might never see your fighter ever (ever?) again!? Arf.
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My hopes for multicrew (I know it is impossible to cover that in 2.3 but please add it in future Frontier):
1. Physical based multicrew as second way to participate in multicrew.
2. Sharing helm.
3. When you join multicrew, you are part of ship until you leave, this allow you to travel with your friends even if you are offline.
4. Ship Launched Recon Vehicle - only in system FSD, advaced sensors, no weapons.
5. Space legs, walking around, repairing.
6. No TPP modes for turrets.
1. Physical based multicrew as second way to participate in multicrew.
2. Sharing helm.
3. When you join multicrew, you are part of ship until you leave, this allow you to travel with your friends even if you are offline.
4. Ship Launched Recon Vehicle - only in system FSD, advaced sensors, no weapons.
5. Space legs, walking around, repairing.
6. No TPP modes for turrets.
I see what you are saying, but you ignore the key issue.
CMDR respawning at station after ship loss can be acceptably ignored because it doesn't affect anyone else's gameplay.
CMDR spawning on another CMDR's ship and increasing its combat effectiveness affects any player engaging that ship directly and unfairly - and thus cannot be ignored.
That is why instantaneous, infinite distance multi crew meeting is a mechanic which cannot in any circumstance be supported.
And anyway - to say it is due telepresence is to invite ridicule.
Telepresence is a known and useful existing technology. But to explain lag-free intragalactic-distance avatar control, you might as well use hydrogen bonding, or the compton effect as "explanation". Far better just to come clean and say it is magic.
I gotta throw a little spanner in your multiplayer cogs - how many of those roles do you think count as full-time entertainment and how many are just a few tiny tasks?
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