News 2.3 Dev Update

[Ozram]

I have to agree here. What FDev described sounds super simplistic and quite unrewarding gameplay-wise.

"I'm a turret now and all I can do is shoot things". Sounds fun. For about an hour.

Or an hour here and there. This is one of the reasons why I propose the mechanic be tied to hired NPC. That way, if the phone suddenly rings or you forgot the water boiling or some one is at the door (or your p2p connection stuffs up) you don't leave the ship owner stranded at the helm. NPC takes over with whatever skill they've earned up to that point and things keep going smoothly.
So, it would still work as proposed, so long as the ship you mean to crew actually has a crew to man the stations.

 

[Raile]

I want whatever is least convenient for everyone. Especially if it's a feature I'm not going to use.

 

[Kermit Laphroaig]

I have to agree here. What FDev described sounds super simplistic and quite unrewarding gameplay-wise.

"I'm a turret now and all I can do is shoot things". Sounds fun. For about an hour.

I'll tell you what, I'm planning to do some streaming when this comes out. I sound like Kermit the Frog. It's going to be a hit series, trust me.

Would you be willing to ride shotgun with me for an episode? I can prove to you how to make multicrew own, as they say, bones.

 

[TacticalNecromancy]

Multiaccount: you leave your secondary avatar at the bubble so you are close to possible non explorer friends to quick meetup while your main avatar may be far away. That way you still have to travel to reach distant places, but you are not tied to stay only there during all the trip.

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So, a lot like multi-crew but with the added bonus of grinding up two characters at once? That sounds like so much fun I'd better quit my job right this second in order to actually have the time.

I've just gotten back to the bubble after a few months out in the black, during which I saw all sorts of interesting things. Since returning, I've found that playing the game, supporting factions and generally chilling with people is actually more enjoyable than pressing J no fewer than 4350 times. If something interesting happens out in Colonia, I presently have no urge to subject myself to that journey again. If a friend's there, why not pop over to his ship and take a look around and have fun?

For perspective: I've played both WoW and FF 14. After 12(?) years, there's classes in WoW I've never touched because the game gives me limited character slots and no ability to change class. In FF 14, I can do whatever I like on one character. Tank, heal, DPS, craft anything, it's easy and simple and, and I know this may shock and alarm some, fun.

You know what helps make it fun? You're actively assisting and contributing to friends and allies. You're making their lives easier and more enjoyable, while allowing you to work with them to overcome issues. What you're arguing is that I should reduce the amount of enjoyment I can have with the game, along with that of my friends, in order to grind and grind and grind and grind and grind so I can send an alt out there in order to arrive many months after they've actually done anything worthwhile.

It sounds to me like you're actively arguing against people enjoying the game. The, and I feel the need to stress this, game. Not lifestyle simulator, not SUPER REALISTIC SPACE SIMULATOR 3302, but a game in which even meeting up with friends at the moment can be a pain. And you want to make... let's see... no changes to that?

 

[TenakaFurey]

In This Thread: people misunderstanding how the suggested features will behave, and disregarding the 'one step at a time, setting things up to be done right rather than quick-and-dirty' mentality that the game designers are using.

Yes, multicrew when it first hits is going to be fairly rudimentary. But it will very likely be further built upon once the framework is in place.

Yes...it is rudimentary.

But it is also very badly designed and implemented with features that affect immersion, gameplay and balance.

Why should I explore if I can just hop into a buddies ship and see the sites?
If I can telepresence halfway across the hgaaxy to my friends ship, why can I not get market prices in real time?
What happens to the multicrew who set themselves up as griefers...woth the option to expunge their record?
Pay to win...buy two more accounts and get get two extra pips.
Why only two extra roles?
Why only one new role?

And so on.

I had hoped FD would deliver something better....something more interesting and balanced. Hoped...but not expected

 

[Maitolee]

Just as an aside, but you do play in Open, right?

Right.

 

[Kermit Laphroaig]

Right.

Alright, I respect that! I tend to be about the Background Sim the same way you are about this, in that I like arguing the ways its pretty realistic.

 

[Maitolee]

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So, a lot like multi-crew but with the added bonus of grinding up two characters at once? That sounds like so much fun I'd better quit my job right this second in order to actually have the time.

I've just gotten back to the bubble after a few months out in the black, during which I saw all sorts of interesting things. Since returning, I've found that playing the game, supporting factions and generally chilling with people is actually more enjoyable than pressing J no fewer than 4350 times. If something interesting happens out in Colonia, I presently have no urge to subject myself to that journey again. If a friend's there, why not pop over to his ship and take a look around and have fun?

For perspective: I've played both WoW and FF 14. After 12(?) years, there's classes in WoW I've never touched because the game gives me limited character slots and no ability to change class. In FF 14, I can do whatever I like on one character. Tank, heal, DPS, craft anything, it's easy and simple and, and I know this may shock and alarm some, fun.

You know what helps make it fun? You're actively assisting and contributing to friends and allies. You're making their lives easier and more enjoyable, while allowing you to work with them to overcome issues. What you're arguing is that I should reduce the amount of enjoyment I can have with the game, along with that of my friends, in order to grind and grind and grind and grind and grind so I can send an alt out there in order to arrive many months after they've actually done anything worthwhile.

It sounds to me like you're actively arguing against people enjoying the game. The, and I feel the need to stress this, game. Not lifestyle simulator, not SUPER REALISTIC SPACE SIMULATOR 3302, but a game in which even meeting up with friends at the moment can be a pain. And you want to make... let's see... no changes to that?

You are absolutely right. I want to prevent people from having fun. I'm even trying to take down Christmas. I can't stand people being happy. That's me.

I've posted several times possible solutions (changes) to HELP players to play together without wasting time. Meanwhile it's fun only "mursion" players are proposing solutions to try to please everybody.

My contribution has been sent, and seeing further discussion leads to nothing constructive I feel I'm done here.

 

[ColdGlider]

Wouldn't it be great if you could take turns with another player piloting that damn ASP of yours across the vastness of space?

Yes, it would. And it would really have made the Colonia Expansion Initiative CG less of a chore. While exploring with my wing, we talked about just this feature... and the very next morning I received a DM informing me of Sandro's multi-crew announcement.

I was so excited! Before sitting down to read it, I made a fresh cup of coffee, grabbed a snack, and sat down to bask in the vision of things to come. As I read, the fear mounted. Gunner, yeah... SLF pilot... yeah yeah, combat, combat, where's the explor.... oh.

"The ship owner is always the helmsman."

Well, at least the coffee was good!

Ok, that was harsh... but I'm an explorer, darn it! I haven't been back to the bubble since I left on the Distant Worlds Expedition nearly a year ago.

I get the difficulty in implementation... but ask the dev team who implemented realistic, landable, procedurally-generated planet surfaces if any of that was "easy".
I get the small steps toward a larger vision. So maybe there is hope that this will change.

But if we work under Sandro's assertion of "The ship owner is always the helmsman" then I see two main considerations leading to this design:

1. There would be a LOT of additional ticket volume related to crew members crashing the ships of other commanders, whether by accident or by intention.
2. It increases potential for the "gold farming" market.

Regarding farming, you could pay people to join your crew and:

• Grind Robigo/Draconis/etc for credits
• Fly your ship to Colonia
• Otherwise play the game for you

This could be done now, of course, but you would have to share your account credentials with a third-party: not good!
And as it stands, you could still choose to pay someone if you really wanted a gunner or SLF pilot- but who would do that!? Even so, the ship itself would need to have been earned by you.

Otherwise:

• Crew members can only take the helm when offered by the owner
• The owner can resume control of the helm at any time
• If a crew member drops connection while manning the helm, control defaults back to the owner.
• If the owner drops connection- regardless of role- the session is ended.
• After successful docking at a station, the role of helmsman is automatically returned to the owner. (No access to other stored ships/modules/outfitting by the crew)

I think the above could work. Leave it to the players to decide how they would like to play in this sandbox.

 

[Six6VI]

And yet dudes fly aircraft in real life, in real time, across the world right now without necessarily having to be in them. So telepresence is a thing.

That said, I require zero in-lore justification for being able to just join another crew. None. Does not matter to me. Because I'm playing a game and "how does the lore justify this" is like, tertiary at best to whether or not the game is fun and cool, easy to pick up and put down.

It's not a realism simulator because it's literally science fiction. If you want realism in a flight simulator, consider perhaps a flight sim of things that actually exist. As soon as we are in the year 3303, we get to be free from and no longer beholden to the constraints of actual reality. As soon as we start demanding maximum realism, we have to start wondering why there is drag in deep space that slows my ship down when I throttle off, and the answer is "because it's more fun like this."

If you want a maximally realistic job simulator, just go get that job IMO. Otherwise accept there are compromises - compromises which don't even effect you, because you don't have to play that way.

It is the height of childish entitlement to expect the developers to make the game only playable the way you think it should be playable, rather than make it playable the way others think it should be playable, where you can still play it your way too.

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"A little planning and. . ." well, I got stuck in traffic on the way home from work, guess I can't play with my friends now, gotta spend 45 minutes putt-putting across the galaxy instead.

What if instead of forcing people to play like you want to play, you just choose to play the way you want to play, and let other people choose the way they want to play, instead of being a pouty baby about it?

...And, exactly who is being the entitled whiney baby here?

There is a reason why, if you need something important done you give it to someone who is already busy and organised around a schedule. Because they are organised, around a schedule. Fly to the meet up station the session before...

And yeah, if your "friends" ain't online, exactly what's the point of insta-crew?

Plenty of other no-brainer whiney COD kiddie fest arcade pew pews to play.

 

[DawdlingEgg]

There is a reason why, if you need something important done you give it to someone who is already busy and organised around a schedule. Because they are organised, around a schedule.

Offtopic, this is some awful advice.


I think we can do without all the name-calling. We all roleplay as adults here, right?


I see a lot of people saying instant crew is useless. If that's the case, just let us have it and do "nothing" together. And you all can meet up and do what you need to do. Someone said using telepresence could be used for griefing, partaking in illegal actions and bowing out to avoid the bounty. It was my understanding that the actions are shared between all CMDRs in the ship. Unless you mean the Captain doing something to gain a bounty to underhandedly affect his crew. In which case, why is the crew even there? If you're worried about that, don't crew up with someone you don't know.

 

[TacticalNecromancy]

...And, exactly who is being the entitled whiney baby here?

There is a reason why, if you need something important done you give it to someone who is already busy and organised around a schedule. Because they are organised, around a schedule. Fly to the meet up station the session before...

And yeah, if you're "friends" ain't online, exactly what's the point of insta-crew?

Plenty of other no-brainer whiney COD kiddie fest arcade pew pews to play.

I'm fascinated by this logic here. How dare people attempt to do things on the spur of the moment! They should have spent days travelling across the galaxy in an attempt to meet up with people! That's how the truly mature people with busy lives and things to do play games. Clearly it's the utmost sign of maturity to press j 300 times an evening for a week in order to get to a station so you and your friend can spend the next hour pressing j in turns to get to the place you actually wanted to go.

What part of this is fun? It's just needless added tedium to a game that's already, let's be fair, somewhat sparse on things to do.

 

[Powareverb]

Why can't we have both physicial boarding AND telepresence as options? Rescuing/transporting players would be a major new comunity driven feature on par with the Fuel Rats.

This. Would be awesome I think to be able to do both, but I can see quite a few balance issues that would need be worked out.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Or an hour here and there. This is one of the reasons why I propose the mechanic be tied to hired NPC. That way, if the phone suddenly rings or you forgot the water boiling or some one is at the door (or your p2p connection stuffs up) you don't leave the ship owner stranded at the helm. NPC takes over with whatever skill they've earned up to that point and things keep going smoothly.
So, it would still work as proposed, so long as the ship you mean to crew actually has a crew to man the stations.

See, that would work perfectly for me.

 

[Rochester]

Was going to rant....head cold. But I shant, great update FD. Bravo.

But really can we have NPC crew as well - for us lonely explorers?

The times Id imagined just turning around when the space madness got to me and chatting to my number 2; them either telling me some complex backstory which made me return home and; yes Duncan I will find your farther and avenge you...., or some random crap jokes, or getting so annoyed by them I eject them into the darkness.

NPC multi crew - at some point please.

Everything else - daddy cool.

 

[duckofdeath]

This will be interesting, if the whole game is adjusted to work for it. In its current form where the game crashes when you manage to stay in an instance with other CMDRs long enough, this will just add more frustration.
Apart from the unstable instances, I think the whole multiplayer aspect neds to be adjusted. Add a fourth galaxy view mode, with a CMDR heat map, to let us know where the action is so CMDRs can actually find other like-minded. Make communication work wider in-game. That is, move the community into the game. Some sort of interstellar gumtree, where CMDR's can hire and find work for other CMDRs. For trust issues, have the number of bounties on a CMDR's head for the last 90 days or so be visible when you make a post or reply to a post.
Basically, make the multiplayer part work without the need to communicate through third party services, otherwise I'm afraid this will be as popular in the long run as CQC.

 

[Six6VI]

This should really be a total no-brainer...

If you want some quick pew-pew, on a random ship or by invite, to fly SLF's or man a gun turret you log into CQC, pick an option and magically unicorn teleport to who really cares where and get paid a non-Pilots Federation expendable NPC share commensurate with your CQC rank.

If, on the other hand you want the benefits to apply on your main CMDR prior to but with the potential space legs release in mind then it would be more sensible to store your own ship in the same starport as the third party vessel to transfer your magic pockets seat / escape pod.

Note that since you are in frozen stasis it appears the journey from ship destruction to original destination is instant - you were asleep. How the clock magically winds back raises more questions but could add gameplay if the pod rescue missions included "lost" players...

This solution could help the immersion folks get their heads around the 22,500 YEAR PING from Jaques to the bubble, stops a lot of powerlevel exploits, creates gameplay and revives CQC from the dead. Doesn't Steam already let you observe a friend's screen in-game, instantly?

If the SLF has a 30km range, the speed of light should apply to multicrew, too.

Bumping - There is already a way to insta-pew-pew for those with no patience.
Separate the casual "I don't care, it's a game-ers" from the immersionist, simple.

Edit...

Doesn't Steam already let you observe a friend's screen in-game, instantly?

I checked, and yes it does, at a variety of screen sizes. Simply click the little drop down arrow next to your friend's name in the list then select view game in progress. Wait for them to approve the broadcast if required by their settings and hey presto...

You are now observing what your friend is seeing, without needing to own the game.

 

[Jenner]

Reminder to please avoid badgering/harassment and name calling. Also, no bumping.

Thank you.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Reminder to please avoid badgering/harassment and name calling. Also, no bumping.

Thank you.

 

[Night Parrot]

David, for the sake of the game, can you please have a serious talk to Sandro...