News 2.3 Dev Update

[Winterwalker]

What bugs me is that some telepresence has a 30 km range, and others have an infinite range. That makes zero sense. Either they're all short range, or they're all long range. Pick One Frontier, Please.

If you run with the telepresence idea for the time being (Mosfoot, I actually agree crew log ins are a good idea but complicates, and imo, over reach for 2.3. In any case we definitely want our avatar to have a position in 3D space in the normal game mode; To be locatable on another moving ship and to be able to interact with it, as multicrew eventually becomes a different issue to space legs?) Then Ziljan there's a difference between crewing a ship from far away imo .. and telepresenct crewing of a fighter from the ship (with the 30km range limit) nearby.

If you assume you need some form of Subspace technology, to send (a more complicated signal than just comms), no reason why it should fit in the very small fighter, which might have room for a radio tranceiver but not the subspace version. You can't access navigation in fighter for instance but you could maybe, if you were able to relay a subspace signal, captured by the larger long-range tranceiver on the ship and passed it on to fighter by FM / medium wave, radio. Looks like you will be able to relay a telepresence signal in multicrew, 2.3 (no news on navigation data relay coming, as far as I know).

Lack of Transponder on the fighter means 30km range, may be for security / identification purposes. This is a different issue from comms (lore) but if fighter can't fit a transponder how coud you award bounties? The range is actually about instance bubble sizes IIRC but in lore does provide a way to identify the fighter, as it has to stay in range of mother-ship (self destructing by manufacturer design, perhaps as a condition, of their license to build and sell fighters.?)

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Dare to dream. Idk. I'm curious to see what else is in the works. Hopefully they don't give up on the engineering/shield specialist role depicted in the concept art. Would be nice to have a science station too for expansion of exploration mechanics. OK now I'm really dreaming.

you know... I do not care if 2.3 is pew pew player multi crew only.......... IF FD would only just throw everyone else a bone and say, yes this is 2.3 however 2.35 in 2 months time will expand on this with some more features..
hell I'll even take npc crew and other multi crew roles ARE actively being worked on but we do not have a date at this time, just SOMETHING to offer those who want more than multiplayer pew pew.

I have not seen the video so this is 3rd hand info but I was told last night that it was pretty obvious even the DEVS were not enjoying the PvP event last night. IF this is the case then, come on chaps, what happened to "making the game we want to play and you guys are along for the ride?"

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I think this uproar of the telepresence is so silly, it's matchmaking so it's not going to be very ''realistic'' and it will be hard to explain in game lore. They still made an effort to try to give some in lore explanation for the feature and people are throwing bricks at them for it, it's just a shame. If the uproar over one word holds back the development i'll be really sad.

to be honest, unlike instant ship transport I am not really bothered about instant teleport for multi crew....... my only issue with it is how it impacts future features, and whether or not it makes some of. the cool ideas the devs have talked about in the past redundant.

FD have shown they are not really prepared to remove "features" and replace with more fleshed out stuff, it it means the game is less "streamlined" so I do worry it may impact the point of space legs somewhat.

This is why I still think npc crew is the answer, allow us to "board" friends ships if in the vicinity, like wings, and if not there then we play as their crew member for the session. Hell, we could even split the difference then if we really wanted to. I am at orang, my mate is at sol, I could use his crew whilst we head to orang and then at that point we swap over.

IF players have a bee in their bonnet on wanting to get paid rather than levelling up a friends npc, then maybe FD could even allow an option to choose to "donate" any money earned from that crew member to our CMDR at the end of the session.

Like I said, IF FD are prepared to promise to reconsider their options in the future I won't moan about instant player transfer now if that is what happens (best to ignore the lore around it tho, and just have it "happen").

But I think the npc crew idea has a number of advantages.

1) it means npc crew which benefits everyone - even if just eyecandy and a credit sink for larger ships for now.......... the larger ships were always meant to need crew, and with money literally being thrown at us, the bigger ships need some credit sinks imo.

2) it still allows instant get into game action that many (inc myself) want for any player multi crew

3) it satisfies any of the players where immersion is NOT a dirty word.

4) if does not potentially castrate any future plans for space legs.

5) it means crimes committed by the commander are still the crimes of the commander, BUT if we choose to use our real character, then the crimes could still be ours, but we get the bonus of our pilots federation ranking

The ONLY compromise this means for us players is it means it may not be your avatar your mates see if you do not travel to their ship, and to that I say, well, come on people, is it really so hard to find SOME compromise?

PS what EVER FD decide I hope they reconsider the "magic" 3x payment for any bounties, this is horrible imo and makes no sense. If I am in a wing we share bounties so why not in a crew?

 

[Winterwalker]

4) if does not potentially castrate any future plans for space legs.

I see the code for multi-crew as being very dual purpose. It's being used here for multicrew but it gives your Remote Commander three things; (1) A trackable position in 3D space (fighter), (2) A position in 2D space on a moving ship (crew station) and (3) The ability to interact in either of these places (fire guns). That's a potential, and very strong basis for space legs imho.

As any long-range-instantaneous telepresence 'signal' has to be sent somehow, it could be an entanglement physics that sends signal in Witchspace. If there were to be any aliens out there (in Witchspace, and there have been, more than rumours) it's conceivable they could disrupt the Witchspace signal and turn it off, at any time. At that stage we might have to revert to a game mode, to travel either physically, or get to the remote ship by time acceleration (menu instead) later.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Personally I'm against that timer on account of there being no gameplay for such a timer, much like if you were made to wait after facing the rebuy screen. What I would like, is for the requirement of an NPC crew to be in the receiving ship (until we have "legs") so the player actually pays for having a crew and so we give a bit more significance to the NPC crew which have been so welcomed by the community yet sorta shunned by fd. They're generally ugly, take time and serious credits to train and keep, die when ship is destroyed and don't get an avatar in the pilots seat when they're at the helm. Very little reason they should not be an integral part of multicrew at least until we can "physically" step on to another players ship.

I loved your "Agent Smith" idea for Multi-Crew, Ozram.....that's a brilliant solution that should please pretty much *everyone*!

 

[Fosdyke]

I loved your "Agent Smith" idea for Multi-Crew, Ozram.....that's a brilliant solution that should please pretty much *everyone*!

I second this, really smart.

 

[Six6VI]

I loved your "Agent Smith" idea for Multi-Crew, Ozram.....that's a brilliant solution that should please pretty much *everyone*!

Also flagging this one, good visual!

Signal degradation based on distance to mobile network node and module class.
Engineer mods available to boost signal and reduce ping by emulating a larger unit.
For best performance a physical ship to station node connection is recommended.

The 'real' Nebuchadnezzar had to come up to broadcast depth. Agent Smith did not.

 

[JosiahD]

Incoming message...

CMDR, it is with great regret, and disdain that we must contact you to advise your Pilots Federation rank has been downgraded from Elite, to Deadly for fratricide and as a consequence, your Shinrarta Dezhra permit has been revoked.

The Pilots Federation do not condone this behaviour and a fine has been levied on you to compensate the CMDR you destroyed in cold blood to cover the insurance policy on their vessel. Do not ignore the warnings projected on your HUD!

In an effort to prevent this happening again, please refer to clause 42, subsection iii of your Pilots Federation code of conduct. If instead of "CMDR" in red your HUD shows "CMDR" in green you will be held accountable for all hostile actions.

...

If you WANT to pvp test your latest engineer mods on another CMDR's ship, have them AGREE to turning off the "Report crimes against me" option and there will be no crime. Murdering a fellow CMDR should attract VERY dire consequences.

Penalties could increase if the victim ran and didn't even deploy their hardpoints.

Edit: Bust 'em back to a Harmless freewinder with debts to pay off until they 'get' it...

Edit edit: The Pilots Federation could have a fund that covers the rebuy for the victim so at least they're not out of pocket on their ship and the offender could then have any credit gains garnished at an appropriate percentage until they crawl back to zero.

Something like this might entice me out of SOLO, to stand with TRUSTWORTHY allies.

Well, I've maintained an opinion for some time that there needs to be an Elite Federation of Pilots code of conduct that we're required to adhere to, with significant consequences for breaches such as destruction of a fellow member.....such as revokation of permits or docking privileges. So I'd be all for an approach such as you suggest, but we'll have to wait and see what this supposed karma system does I suppose.

- - - Updated - - -

you know... I do not care if 2.3 is pew pew player multi crew only.......... IF FD would only just throw everyone else a bone and say, yes this is 2.3 however 2.35 in 2 months time will expand on this with some more features..
hell I'll even take npc crew and other multi crew roles ARE actively being worked on but we do not have a date at this time, just SOMETHING to offer those who want more than multiplayer pew pew.

I have not seen the video so this is 3rd hand info but I was told last night that it was pretty obvious even the DEVS were not enjoying the PvP event last night. IF this is the case then, come on chaps, what happened to "making the game we want to play and you guys are along for the ride?"

Indeed.....

 

[Six6VI]

you know... I do not care if 2.3 is pew pew player multi crew only.......... IF FD would only just throw everyone else a bone and say, yes this is 2.3 however 2.35 in 2 months time will expand on this with some more features..
hell I'll even take npc crew and other multi crew roles ARE actively being worked on but we do not have a date at this time, just SOMETHING to offer those who want more than multiplayer pew pew.

I have not seen the video so this is 3rd hand info but I was told last night that it was pretty obvious even the DEVS were not enjoying the PvP event last night. IF this is the case then, come on chaps, what happened to "making the game we want to play and you guys are along for the ride?"

I went and watched after you posted this...

It was an FDL pinata party spewing 6 million CR a pop, just as they seemed to expect.

Cut throat galaxy eh? Aren't the Pilots Federation supposed to prevent that?

 

[BigF]

I see a potential use for TP for me I play with several Cmdrs in wings we go HazRez hunting being I'm always in the smaller ship and as such always a bullet magnet. I hope that if I buy the farm while winged up I could TP to one of my wing mates who are usually in something that has SLF's take over the NPC fighter instead of the now option of fly back from the system station I started from. Which is often a 1000ls away and miss all the fun.

 

[Surround]

I really cant wait to play with my one friend in the same deck! its going to be so cool to have 2 fighters out! Cant wait for the sneak peak or any news!

 

[Hydrino]

I see the code for multi-crew as being very dual purpose. It's being used here for multicrew but it gives your Remote Commander three things; (1) A trackable position in 3D space (fighter), (2) A position in 2D space on a moving ship (crew station) and (3) The ability to interact in either of these places (fire guns). That's a potential, and very strong basis for space legs imho.

As any long-range-instantaneous telepresence 'signal' has to be sent somehow, it could be an entanglement physics that sends signal in Witchspace. If there were to be any aliens out there (in Witchspace, and there have been, more than rumours) it's conceivable they could disrupt the Witchspace signal and turn it off, at any time. At that stage we might have to revert to a game mode, to travel either physically, or get to the remote ship by time acceleration (menu instead) later.

Just to clarify for lore reasons (I know "it's just a game), but entanglement does not allow FTL communication.

Particles have to be entangled and then travel apart and during that travel they cannot violate light-speed. Further, entanglement does not last long. This is because it isn't "magic quantum mumbo-jumbo religious" bunk, it is because it is synchronizing actual real, physical properties like spin.

Sometimes FD should just ditch rationalizing things and say it's a game, deal with it. I view multi-crew this way as a real life convenience that the game world ignores. If you don't like it then go cry or rationalize it how you want. But entanglement- as I show above, is not a scientific solution to the tele-presence "problem".

FSD travel, even if possible (which it is not clear an Alcubierre drive would even work), would take as much energy as the universe contains for a single trip, and that is vastly more than our little imaginary ships generate. So that "lore" is also not "realistic" based on current knowledge.

 

[BigF]

That's the bit where in a thousand years time people will say, you know they used to have a computer game that did this, how quaint. They also used batteries that only lasted hours, not weeks.

 

[Six6VI]

That's the bit where in a thousand years time people will say, you know they used to have a computer game that did this, how quaint. They also used batteries that only lasted hours, not weeks.

Batteries charged by 200 year old steam engine technology with nuclear boilers...

/facepalm

 

[Winterwalker]

Just to clarify for lore reasons (I know "it's just a game), but entanglement does not allow FTL communication.

Though, as perhaps always should in any scientific theory to avoid risks, of flat earth thinking, could perhaps we add, "as far as we know"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox

I don't think relativity and quantum theories have been that well unified yet, but I do think this is a difference;

entanglement- as I show above, is not a scientific solution to the tele-presence "problem"

For any science fiction I think all you really need is something 'plausable'. The fact that something hasn't been shown on Earth by experiment yet, even perhaps never will, doesn't prevent it becoming fun times, as lore. I don't see any harm in speculating fiction-wise personally and actually, you maybe could argue, 'just forget it, it's a game' could be the ultimate in combat logging!? Maybe my game IS coming up with wild theories, as close to realistic plausable science as possible but ultimately total guesses (one thousand years ago, how was our view of what's possible scientifically, back then?). Fictions might fit inconsistencies, that inevitably exist while ED is both evolving and while making it playable, and fill in with semi-reasonable explanations that partly create the game world? Arguably saying, 'it's a game' though, really is akin to saying, it's magic space unicorns really (?)

[up]

 

[Howard o Pato]

If you run with the telepresence idea for the time being (Mosfoot, I actually agree crew log ins are a good idea but complicates, and imo, over reach for 2.3. In any case we definitely want our avatar to have a position in 3D space in the normal game mode; To be locatable on another moving ship and to be able to interact with it, as multicrew eventually becomes a different issue to space legs?) Then Ziljan there's a difference between crewing a ship from far away imo .. and telepresenct crewing of a fighter from the ship (with the 30km range limit) nearby.

If you assume you need some form of Subspace technology, to send (a more complicated signal than just comms), no reason why it should fit in the very small fighter, which might have room for a radio tranceiver but not the subspace version. You can't access navigation in fighter for instance but you could maybe, if you were able to relay a subspace signal, captured by the larger long-range tranceiver on the ship and passed it on to fighter by FM / medium wave, radio. Looks like you will be able to relay a telepresence signal in multicrew, 2.3 (no news on navigation data relay coming, as far as I know).

Lack of Transponder on the fighter means 30km range, may be for security / identification purposes. This is a different issue from comms (lore) but if fighter can't fit a transponder how coud you award bounties? The range is actually about instance bubble sizes IIRC but in lore does provide a way to identify the fighter, as it has to stay in range of mother-ship (self destructing by manufacturer design, perhaps as a condition, of their license to build and sell fighters.?)

I agree with this type of lore ...

I really do not want to have a load time so I can play with my friends, yes I love the idea of being by my side instantly.
What I do not want is for FD to replace my friends, which ones I could see their faces while looking at by inflatable dolls just because they have a discussion of which name should be used in the technical term of why it is there.
I do not want to look aside and keep seeing an empty chair just because the lore explanation is that we're just getting data straight to the gaming systems by telepresence.
And, frankly, we're in 3303 and we have enough holographic technology, for solid holograms, or augmented reality visual impression straight from the Remloc helmet.
Please, FD do not schedule time to play with friends, and please do not give me an empty chair because of a lore name.
Do not deprive me of being reunited with my friends

 

[Winterwalker]

it is because it is synchronizing actual real, physical properties like spin

Good point this.

I thought maybe the particles (probably Hydrogen nuclei) .. if hexagonal Painite crystals are grown around them 'at the shop' (where the particles are given their ID numbers too) could maybe remain synchronised for extended periods of time if kept at a constant -273 degrees C? I've been mining this afternoon and did contribute 4 tons of Painite so feeling reasonably good about contributing to the economy, that enables multicrew, and because I don't feel too bad about the cr 75k/ton earned, either obviously.

 

[STARB0YY]

Don't know if this has been posted in one of the recent pages but i'm putting it here in case it hasn't.

Ed mentioned in the Xbox Open stream yesterday that there would be 2 livestreams next week focused on 2.3. Hopefully we will get to see some of it in action!

 

[Terry Bruge-Hiplo]

Don't know if this has been posted in one of the recent pages but i'm putting it here in case it hasn't.

Ed mentioned in the Xbox Open stream yesterday that there would be 2 livestreams next week focused on 2.3. Hopefully we will get to see some of it in action!

Cheers matey [up]

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

So how about legitimate gameplay elements. Could we see those in Multicrew anytime soon?

Yeah, an extra pip and turret control. Turrets are pants. Missiles might be entertaining, for the entire 5 minutes you have ammunition. The only engaging piece of gameplay is the SLF which.... Isn't on the ship....

What happened to an engineer role?

Directional shields, direct control of module order for better power management. Individual rebooting of modules. Throw in a minigame for reducing the rebuild time on the SLF even?

Control of extinguisher systems and atmosphere venting for heat management. Synthesizing so that the helmsman doesn't have to look in the right hand panel and fiddle around while fighting. Overcharging modules at the expense of module damage for extra performance when it's needed, etc....

Engineers. We want'em.

How about Navigation?

Full Time Route Plotter. Good god man I both need one of these and want to be one.

Directional Thrusters: Give the navigator the ability to direct power from one set of thrusters to the other. Give them a mini-display that shows them which set the helmsman is currently using and let them try to keep up with his changes in direction based upon what they can see is happening outside the cockpit. Get out of sync with your helmsman, he has no thrust to maneuver how he wants.

Control of the magnetic cone while fuel scooping: Scoop faster when another player is helping you. Who doesn't want this?

Access to local market prices after they scan the nav beacon: No more wondering if the station next door had better prices or relying on EDDB to tell you so. The Navigator has the information.

Scanning of other ships and USS's in SC. Now the helmsman doesn't have to wobble around like a drunk if he's potentially interested in a specific USS, the navigator can weed out the trash for him.

Identification of mineral deposits: Navigators can analyze detailed surface scans to find which areas have high concentrations of which minerals, and bookmark them for Universal Cartographics for a bonus.

Planet Scanning mini-game: Give Explorers probe scanners that can be used to scan for specific, desirable features in planets so the data can be sold.

Etc....

Come on FDev.... Are you even trying?....

Edit: Oh, and for crying out loud let me pass the helmsman's seat to my friend. Why are we not allowed to fly each others' ships?