Notice A statement on cheating in Elite Dangerous.

No Pilot's Federation systems can have their control taken away from them. I still don't understand the point about PP, I know what LYR does, but it doesn't affect Shinrarta, Jameson Memorial, or me I'm afraid.



No, you're wrong, that is not what I said at all. I'm not sure why people are so intent on twisting others' words to fit their own agenda :unsure:

What I was doing was pointing out that the assertion that the BGS and PP affect every one, is not correct. The majority, probably. Everyone, nope.

p.s I'd quite enjoy watching Jameson getting attacked
Ain't twisting nothing, friend. We're talking about an issue that affects wide swaths of the game and you decide to nitpick.

Shameful.
 
I'm not bothered that the topic was started by a member of SDC, it could have been any of us got ticked off enough to start it off. I'm even less bothered by 'them PvP'ers' or 'oh yeah, Open 🤮 ' comments. Anyone using such observations are expressing their own opinions, we're all allowed to do that here.

I don't accept that 'cheats don't affect my game' though... Look, they don't/won't affect MY game directly, I may never see a cheater in my game-play life (fingers crossed), but they do affect us all, in the end, because every cheat active actually does bring our game closer to the point where playing in Open or PG (think about it...) is no longer viable as any competitive aspect of the game is vulnerable, even subtly, to imbalance. Yes, I know a well built PvP ship is as imbalanced today to us 'ordinairy' folk as a cheat godship would be to them...

Solo, I can't make too many comments on, I've spent a lot of game hours there, it's fine - but really the 'single player' part of ED, apart from the BGS, of course (I can't comment on PP as I have exactly zero experience there) and I'm only recently involved in getting my feet wet with that!

Cheaters can destroy our game, should their numbers grow out of hand, if the Developers cannot detect the code they use effectively, as the game's credibility could be so damaged that the plug is pulled on BGS/PP/Exploration due to an inability to assess if any achievement was gained 'legally'.

My opinion only above, although I have been thinking around each comment raised here (and similar threads) and trying to extrapolate what could happen.
 
...
What I was doing was pointing out that the assertion that the BGS and PP affect every one, is not correct. The majority, probably. Everyone, nope.
Not even sure it's a majority. This 'significance' is all made up in one's head: if you care about it, it's important to you. But that's all on a level of roleplaying and thus highly subjective, no hard physical and ultimate truth. No BGS changes, be it by cheating or in a natural way, could ever kill or ruin you. BGS and PP play is totally voluntary*. But before someone's going to twist my words again: No, that's not to call cheating in any way harmless. It's just this argument that is bonkers.

And to further expand on this, though it's somewhat OT in this context, it's one of my main objections against the game: that almost everything (I really struggle to find an exemplarily exception) is totally arbitrary and voluntary. It's literally impossible to lose in a grand scheme. That's probably one of the reasons why PvP attracts some people, cause here you can at least lose on a small scale event. But as long as you take care about your rebuy bills even such an event is insignificant from a gameplay point of view. You can lose a game of chess, but compared to chess a lost PvP fight would be the loss of a pawn at worst (but even this example doesn't work, as a lost pawn without further compensation usually leads to a lost match).

In ED it's just a few credits you lose and since earning money has become so easy in an inflationary way it's pretty negligible. All what's left is lots of artificial drama. :D
 
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Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Ain't twisting nothing, friend. We're talking about an issue that affects wide swaths of the game and you decide to nitpick.

Shameful.
chuckles

Pointing out inaccuracies in what people assert to be fact, isn't shameful. Surely if anyone should be accused of a shameful act then it is the person who claimed it affected everyone. No?

Guess not, as you were then.
 
I'm not bothered by SDC either (actually i'm a big fan of their pvp videos) and i'm not directly affected by cheaters since i play on xbox, but still i find the cheating very disturbing.

However, i cannot stop noticing that since SDC started this campaign, the number of cheats downloaded jumped from 300 to 1500
So it took like 9 months for 300 downloads and in last month another 1200 downloaded the cheat.
The so called anti-cheat battle the SDC started with FDev had the actual effect of widely promoting the cheats in Elite. yey! \o/

I'm not the adept of swiping the dirt under the carpet, but one does not set a club full of people on fire just to make the owners of the said club aware of their issues with the emergency evacuation plan.
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Cheaters can destroy our game, should their numbers grow out of hand, if the Developers cannot detect the code they use effectively, as the game's credibility could be so damaged that the plug is pulled on BGS/PP/Exploration due to an inability to assess if any achievement was gained 'legally'.
Cheaters, exploiters, there should be no sympathy in my book in an online multiplayer game. Whether it's using trainers, or people who used the g5 engineer exploit, they should all be banned in my book and not just shadowbanned.

I'm not bothered by SDC either (actually i'm a big fan of their pvp videos) and i'm not directly affected by cheaters since i play on xbox, but still i find the cheating very disturbing.

However, i cannot stop noticing that since SDC started this campaign, the number of cheats downloaded jumped from 300 to 1500
So it took like 9 months for 300 downloads and in last month another 1200 downloaded the cheat.
The so called anti-cheat battle the SDC started with FDev had the actual effect of widely promoting the cheats in Elite. yey! \o/

I'm not the adept of swiping the dirt under the carpet, but one does not set a club full of people on fire just to make the owners of the said club aware of their issues with the emergency evacuation plan.
Welcome to Elite :sneaky:
 
But to be clear: Cheating in games shouldn't be debatable, no matter in what kind of game it happens. I just don't think it's a good idea to dilute any serious considerations on how to defeat cheating with untenable 'arguments'.
 
Would that work? In normal space you can get to several 1000s if the world has hi gravity and you glide the gravity well. I got to over 8k and I was relatuvely slow (although that was in a Cobra, and they are pretty neat) https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/speed-bowl-championships-announcement.422681/page-8
Not entirely sure how the mods work but I was thinking along the lines that when you're looking at your ship stats in the side panel or outfitting it tells you what your jump range, maximum speed, boost speed, shield / hull strength etc is and this is a static number until you say decrease or increase weight or modify components. So my question is, do the cheat mods actually alter these values, if so they could easily be acted upon, if not, I'll shut up and be quiet for now.
 
chuckles

Pointing out inaccuracies in what people assert to be fact, isn't shameful. Surely if anyone should be accused of a shameful act then it is the person who claimed it affected everyone. No?

Guess not, as you were then.
Congratulations, you identified the exception to the rule that I suspect lots of people already know.

Here's some questions, and a chance to prove you're not just trying to score points, do you ever leave Shinrarta? Do you engage in any mission running out of Shinrarta, any work or activity with other factions or people? Do you have any friends that do?

If so, then I suspect cheating does actually affect you. Whether or not you care is another issue, but if you don't, why post here at all?
 
I'm not bothered by SDC either (actually i'm a big fan of their pvp videos) and i'm not directly affected by cheaters since i play on xbox, but still i find the cheating very disturbing.

However, i cannot stop noticing that since SDC started this campaign, the number of cheats downloaded jumped from 300 to 1500
So it took like 9 months for 300 downloads and in last month another 1200 downloaded the cheat.
The so called anti-cheat battle the SDC started with FDev had the actual effect of widely promoting the cheats in Elite. yey! \o/

I'm not the adept of swiping the dirt under the carpet, but one does not set a club full of people on fire just to make the owners of the said club aware of their issues with the emergency evacuation plan.
How many times do they have to explain it? They felt the issue wasn't properly being addressed and then took what they felt was an appropriate step to deal with the issue.

Frankly, I'm glad they did it and I hope FDev sees the passion of the folks defending that act here.

The only people responsible for downloading the cheat are the people that downloaded it. In fact, as we've seen in this thread, some did it just out of innocent curiosity. Hardly something to lay at someone's feet to disparage them.

Why is this so hard to understand?
 
The only people responsible for downloading the cheat are the people that downloaded it.
You will not get away with that if you manage to convince someone to buy a gun and comit a crime.

Edit: anyway, what i'm trying to say is the issue could had been handled differently. shrugs
 
indeed it didnt happened, yet due to their advertising skills - there are 1200 more cheaters in Elite than there were 1.5 months ago

or did it happened?
 
I'm no programmer, although have done some DBA in past roles, so was thinking, could FD not create field triggers that flag up suspicious value fluctuations for things like shield strengths, weapon stats, mass lock factor and the like that would flag up anything that simply isn't possible within the laws of legit game-play? Then create a database report highlighting accounts where triggers have been identified that they could review on a weekly basis. Or even set field value limiters so that stats cannot be altered beyond their ceiling limit so the hacks simply would not work as the entry rules would be broken? Surely this couldn't be that hard to implement?
It's not hard, but it could become demanding on hardware and/or network traffic depending on implementation, and also depending on how it's done it might be just as easy to hack.

Put it this way, anything that's on your computer could potentially be hacked, modified, changed to help you cheat. If you have a governor program on your computer to check another program, why would it be any different to hack that software just as much as hacking the main game executable?

The best way would be to put that governor program on a server or on other players computer. But then, the issue could be network traffic. (And it wouldn't surprise me if there were ways of cheating such a system as well)

Another way would be to make that governor program not run all the time, but only on specific players when they're reported. Reported person gets a tag and spied upon, and then they can confirm what you're saying if the parameters are within reason.
 

ryan_m

Banned
You will not get away with that if you manage to convince someone to buy a gun and comit a crime.

Edit: anyway, what i'm trying to say is the issue could had been handled differently. shrugs
How, specifically, could it have been handled differently in your eyes?
 
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