Notice A statement on cheating in Elite Dangerous.

I can't help but notice that some of the same people in this thread who have historically moaned

PvP is toxic, awful behavior done by toxic, awful people!! Frontier needs to BAN THEM ALL!!!

Are now taking the position of

Hackers are going to hack, and there's nothing that anyone can do about it. And it isn't like they ruin YOUR day, so what's the problem?
Gettimg that feeling myself.

 
Then they wouldn't be that effective. Anyone with any knowledge of the BGS knows you return to hand in your bonds after a single wave. Its not effective to stay out longer.

Ok, they can clear a wave in 5 mins instead of 10 with their insta kill weapons. They still have to do the flying back to base and stuff.

And i would hope, someone using the cheats so extremely would be easier to detect for FD, even if they can't directly detect the use of the hack, there must be algorithms that trigger when someone is making contact and kills so quickly. At the end of the day, the server has to confirm those kills. Must be plenty of telemetry to help FD spot it.
Lets expand on that. We'll use your numbers as well for sake of argument (although I suspect they could clear it a damn sight quicker than the arbitary number you've come to).

This means (in an hour) they're clearing 12 CZ's to your 6.
When you take into account that on top of that these sort of people are the kind who have no qualm about using bots, that means they could clear 288 CZ's per day without fail.
I at the height of my ED love, (when off work for months at a time between appointments) could barely manage 8hrs of constant gameplay (when you account for breaks and the like), meaning I'm only clearing 48 CZ's for my Faction.

That's a net advantage of 240 CZ's. Using your own numbers.
 
Lets expand on that. We'll use your numbers as well for sake of argument (although I suspect they could clear it a damn sight quicker than the arbitary number you've come to).

This means (in an hour) they're clearing 12 CZ's to your 6.
When you take into account that on top of that these sort of people are the kind who have no qualm about using bots, that means they could clear 288 CZ's per day without fail.
I at the height of my ED love, (when off work for months at a time between appointments) could barely manage 8hrs of constant gameplay (when you account for breaks and the like), meaning I'm only clearing 48 CZ's for my Faction.

That's a net advantage of 240 CZ's. Using your own numbers.
Then if FD limits the daily quota of Bonds delivery to 12 CZ, it would be pointless for cheaters to exploit it.
One would need several players per day delivering bonds to effectively change the system. Wait... I think that is actually what happens in game...
Does anyone can attest for this extreme delivery of Combat bonds by one single person in 1 day having such meaningful effect in a conflict?
 
Then if FD limits the daily quota of Bonds delivery to 12 CZ, it would be pointless for cheaters to exploit it.
One would need several players per day delivering bonds to effectively change the system. Wait... I think that is actually what happens in game...
Which opens up a whole new nightmare scenario... one where the only thing that determines victory in a BGS Stand and fight is who's got the most players. Skill, perseverance or dedication cease to matter anymore and we take another step towards this being a SpaceFarmville in terms of required engagement.

And no, thats not how it works at present.

Instead of counting every transaction, it's now only counting transactions over a certain threshold of value. Don't let the fancy GUI fool you, as this is still the case:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/8d4fw1 Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/8d4fw1/the_once_secret_bgs_mechanics_and_the_unfortunate/


Does anyone can attest for this extreme delivery of Combat bonds by one single person in 1 day having such meaningful effect in a conflict?
I once managed to beat a group (who shall remain nameless) with a 15-20 active playerbase that cowered in solo or PGs singlehandedly using a combat adder in open under the old system (which the big groups knew about and kept schtum for a long time, till it affected them) by turning in 1 bond at a time over the course of the whole war, after dunking on their system authority ships to initially trigger the war.

And let's not get into my undermining in PP...
 
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The hard bit would be passing every state change through a trusted database at ~60FPS * concurrent players.

The harder bit would be getting useful data out of it.

The maximum rated boost speed of a ship is around 950m/s. The fastest speed that people have legitimately got ships to travel without supercruise is considerably faster than that. Set the flag limit at 950m/s and a bunch of legit players doing extreme stuff get flagged. Set it at the few thousand m/s needed to avoid that and it's useless for speed cheat detection. Conversely, even at 950m/s there are plenty of cases where a ship could be going slower than that and still faster than it could be travelling without cheats.

Repeat for most other parameters, and what you actually need to do is run the entire simulation server-side on trusted hardware ... which would have interesting side effects in that your inputs would be a network round trip (probably 1/5 second best case for most players) away from you seeing the result of them ... and that would not be fun at all.
Thanks for the explanation, so it would be possible but not entirely feasible due to hardware / software constraints having serious side effects on performance? So, alternatively, could someone not design a report to identify suspicious values and run it whilst the servers are down on Thursdays for tick over, meaning the live game wouldn't be affected? Mind you I guess if depends on how long the report would actually take to run. Regarding the reference you made to boost speeds, does the maximum 950m/s only apply to specific ships? So, for example, if you had a combination of 950m/s on an Anaconda with D rated drives the report could be coded in a way to say IF Boost Speed < 700 and Ship Type = Anaconda THEN call ? It wouldn't stop everything but it would be a start.
 
Shinrarta can't change hands, so other people selling data is inconsequential to me.
So the BGS is frozen inside Shin then? And that when you return to the bubble you instantly teleport from its edge to Shin all in one go? And LYR is PP, who buys data at double the rate.
 
Then they wouldn't be that effective. Anyone with any knowledge of the BGS knows you return to hand in your bonds after a single wave. Its not effective to stay out longer.

Ok, they can clear a wave in 5 mins instead of 10 with their insta kill weapons. They still have to do the flying back to base and stuff.

And i would hope, someone using the cheats so extremely would be easier to detect for FD, even if they can't directly detect the use of the hack, there must be algorithms that trigger when someone is making contact and kills so quickly. At the end of the day, the server has to confirm those kills. Must be plenty of telemetry to help FD spot it.
If I had infinite shields and weapons, it would make murder insanely easy to pull off. No need to fly anywhere, just sit down and spank anyone who pops up quickly and easily. ATR? Not an issue- you could simply ignore them. No need to use the exploits and flaws present either.
 
If I had infinite shields and weapons, it would make murder insanely easy to pull off. No need to fly anywhere, just sit down and spank anyone who pops up quickly and easily. ATR? Not an issue- you could simply ignore them. No need to use the exploits and flaws present either.
Hell, you can sit at the front of a starport, ignore it's fire and murderhobo everything to tank the factions rep insanely fast (if it's still a good way to murder security ships?!)
 
Every single player is affected by BGS and PP because it is shared across all modes.
Only if they notice. I am aware of both, but have no real idea of the 'affects' they are having on my game. To me, it is just something, that might be happening; in the background.

I have found, that what 'I do' affects 'my' game.
 
Lets expand on that. We'll use your numbers as well for sake of argument (although I suspect they could clear it a damn sight quicker than the arbitary number you've come to).

This means (in an hour) they're clearing 12 CZ's to your 6.
When you take into account that on top of that these sort of people are the kind who have no qualm about using bots, that means they could clear 288 CZ's per day without fail.
I at the height of my ED love, (when off work for months at a time between appointments) could barely manage 8hrs of constant gameplay (when you account for breaks and the like), meaning I'm only clearing 48 CZ's for my Faction.

That's a net advantage of 240 CZ's. Using your own numbers.
Assuming there is 1 cheat for each every 2 non-cheats.

Also bots for running CZs? Is that even possible? Or even bots for running missions? I'm pretty sure that isn't possible. It would have to be capable to looking for the right missions and more.
 
Thanks for the explanation, so it would be possible but not entirely feasible due to hardware / software constraints having serious side effects on performance? So, alternatively, could someone not design a report to identify suspicious values and run it whilst the servers are down on Thursdays for tick over, meaning the live game wouldn't be affected? Mind you I guess if depends on how long the report would actually take to run. Regarding the reference you made to boost speeds, does the maximum 950m/s only apply to specific ships? So, for example, if you had a combination of 950m/s on an Anaconda with D rated drives the report could be coded in a way to say IF Boost Speed < 700 and Ship Type = Anaconda THEN call ? It wouldn't stop everything but it would be a start.
Would that work? In normal space you can get to several 1000s if the world has hi gravity and you glide the gravity well. I got to over 8k and I was relatuvely slow (although that was in a Cobra, and they are pretty neat) https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/speed-bowl-championships-announcement.422681/page-8
 
And at that point you lost me. I have no interest in reading something that soley exists to embiggen someone's epeen.
Perhaps you should read the post you've quoted without your bias spectacles on then?

Troopi asked if someone can attest to the scenario. I confirmed I not only did do it, but did it despite not being the best pilot in the game with a near starter level ship.
 
Assuming there is 1 cheat for each every 2 non-cheats.

Also bots for running CZs? Is that even possible? Or even bots for running missions? I'm pretty sure that isn't possible. It would have to be capable to looking for the right missions and more.
They've been known to use them for PP expansions in the past, so I imagine it's not unfeasible to reapply the lessons learned there to this.
 
To overplay it like you are is also pathetic.

Are we done being insulting?

I'm not saying it doesn't have an effect, i'm asking how much and musing in terms of time how much of real impact it really has.
Then they wouldn't be that effective. Anyone with any knowledge of the BGS knows you return to hand in your bonds after a single wave. Its not effective to stay out longer.

Ok, they can clear a wave in 5 mins instead of 10 with their insta kill weapons. They still have to do the flying back to base and stuff.

And i would hope, someone using the cheats so extremely would be easier to detect for FD, even if they can't directly detect the use of the hack, there must be algorithms that trigger when someone is making contact and kills so quickly. At the end of the day, the server has to confirm those kills. Must be plenty of telemetry to help FD spot it.
Do you even play the game anymore?

Completing CZs and their optional scenarios contribute to the war effort significantly. In fact, I'm pretty sure you don't have to turn in combat bonds at all.

So, yes, cheaters could have a significant advantage here.

Gettimg that feeling myself.

Ain't this the truth? Folks got such a grudge against PvP, and SDC in particular, they'll see the game burned to the ground by cheaters in the hope it will provide some kind of comeuppance.

And we're worried I'm being insulting. Hilarious.
 
Regarding code to identify cheaters, since the game's multiplayer mode is peer to peer, it's not feasible to use servers to do the checking during a fight.
Here's what can be done:
1- the server can crosscheck files and code in memory in a client when he tries to start the game, or when he docks at a station. That wouldn't put too much pressure on the servers.
2- other players in the same instance could use their own client to check ship's data of another. The premise is simple here: get the various attributes of the ship, as well as a list of modules and modifications, and do the math. If the ship has damage, shields or whatever different from what it should, then it's a cheater.
This method can be run passively during combat, or before the instance starts, when the connection is being established between peers.
Note: this method cannot detect cheats like infinite distributor energy, infinite shields, or perma-boost,unless the peers are constantly doing the math of others to cross-check each and every action.
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
So the BGS is frozen inside Shin then? And that when you return to the bubble you instantly teleport from its edge to Shin all in one go? And LYR is PP, who buys data at double the rate.
No Pilot's Federation systems can have their control taken away from them. I still don't understand the point about PP, I know what LYR does, but it doesn't affect Shinrarta, Jameson Memorial, or me I'm afraid.

You got yours, so why care about anyone else, am I right?

I hope the Thargoids blast Shinrarta into space junk someday. :LOL:
No, you're wrong, that is not what I said at all. I'm not sure why people are so intent on twisting others' words to fit their own agenda :unsure:

What I was doing was pointing out that the assertion that the BGS and PP affect every one, is not correct. The majority, probably. Everyone, nope.

p.s I'd quite enjoy watching Jameson getting attacked
 
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