Add cheapier carrier.

[STARVOID]

Hey, devs! First of all I wish you keeping healthy and productive and away from COVID. Stay safe!
And the next thing- add MORE carriers! That one for 5 billions is in insane cost for me. I don't want to dig rocks every day to pay upkeeping. Ant the cost? it's half-a-year pure gring, i'll hate elite after that.
So what do I suggest? Add 2 more carriers:
1- small personal carrier with 3 landing pads, 1 per size, no other player can use (or only without going to hangar- just to refuel or/and repair, no spaceyard for others)
That should cost 1 bil and have no or very small upkeep (1 mil?) and designed to use as PERSONAL transport, ship deposit and cargohold with no direct sell option. Also that can be used as personal platform for exploration, but first of all, mobile storgate and maintance station and transport to base in different sectors of space. Maybe as it will be small and light it should jump faster or at 1000ly.
2.Heavy Exploration expeditionary carrier- that can be even more expensive that the one we have, but can be bought for 1bil, having otherwise very big upkeep cost. That cost should be able to be paid by multiple players. Idea is- it can be used by 20+ players simultaneously, store HUGE amount of supplies and ships and jump to 5000 ly with using proportionately more fuel. Idea is- we create an expedition to another side of galaxy, collecting resources and money and store that on carrier. Than everybody go to it, storing miner ships and explorers, jumping 5k ly away, explore everything, mining fuel and than performing a jump after several days or a week. That can be exiting adventure and add conviniency to explore furthest galaxy sectors.

UPD: I have a better idea now! Maybe we even don't need other carriers, just ability to entirely change appearance and function of ones we have. Why not continue fitting tradition on FCs? We buy flying tin for 800k that jumps 100 ly and have 3-5 pads and not visible for other players. Than we can unlock more pads, upgrade stock, install modules, change FSD and make of it trading base/exploration foothold/maintance station for everyone and much more stuff. Upkeep should start from something small and rise with upgrades. Also make something like nav beacons on FCs that can be installed to make carrier visible to others. No clogging the map, everyone builds the thing he need, everyone happy. And after all, new carriers with trade upgrades should give passive income to recoup themselves. And those we have should too.

 

[JTFireblaze]

+1 to a personal carrier.

• 2 large pads, 2 mediums, 4 smalls
• doesn't need all the extra stuff a full sized carrier has
• Doesn't jump as far as the full sized one. Maybe 250Ly? Although, actually why not... make them the same, 500Ly. Why penalise people. The ship is smaller so even though it might have a smaller jump drive it can still keep up with the big boys
• Doesn't clutter a system map, is only visible to me and my wing.

 

[Teh Smoo]

This is really more of a flaw in the system itself. Players can have ships scattered around everywhere, and apparently garages are free. But, while carriers can be USED to make money, they don't generate enough to fund their expenses? Even a super cheap tiny ship can generate millions, while BILLIONS of credits in a carrier only serves to eat money.

My problem with them has always been upkeep. If inactive carriers are quietly removed and re-added when the pilot goes active again, that's fine. Keep the clutter down. But even if you mostly get the money back, that's still just... kind of insulting, imo.

And a jump cooldown is fine, but WAITING to start a jump sounds annoying. Not that I've seen one jump yet, though. I've done what people said, and ignored carriers almost completely.

It would be way more engaging to have a cheap shell, no upkeep, and have a bunch of stuff to do to add all the modules in, missions and materials, could be a point system where you insert goods, raw materials, mission credit, and money? And you could substitute one for another.

But nope, just boring credits and upkeep chores or it vanishes.

 

[lemon407]

I have longed for a carrier/cruiser ship, that more or less operates just like a carrier but with limitations on it.
-accessible only by owner the squadron.
-Operates off of a storage system that has a total of 6 ship slots, with Large ships taking up 3, med taking up 2, and small taking up 1, so at most you could carry around 2 large ships, or combos like 1 large, 1 medium, 1 small.
-Has access to a material storage like the carrier but at a reduced size
-Jump range could honestly stay the same
-Does not have universal cartographic
-Can repair
-can refuel
-can swap out personal modules.
-cost 2B
-no upkeep cost to allow for long term deep space exploration.

 

[JTFireblaze]

Current Fleet Carriers should have been Squadron Carriers. They should have been Guild Ships.

Then we could have got personal carriers for individual CMDRs.

Imagine dropping in to a Guild Ship/Squadron Carrier and seeing a few Personal Carriers around it like a flotilla. Would have been awesome...

 

[STARVOID]

Current Fleet Carriers should have been Squadron Carriers. They should have been Guild Ships.

Then we could have got personal carriers for individual CMDRs.

Imagine dropping in to a Guild Ship/Squadron Carrier and seeing a few Personal Carriers around it like a flotilla. Would have been awesome...

Whoa! That sounds... epic... we need that in Elite.

 

[STARVOID]

All other's Ideas also sounds good. I would be happy seeing in game on of them or something merged from those and devs' vision.

 

[Stumpii]

As a relatively new player (~300M Cr), I do find FCs a little strange. Seems like they were added as something for long time players to spend their amassed money on. The huge price difference between a ships and carriers mean there is no real transition from one to the other. It might take me years to be able to afford one unless I drop everything for mining). As other have stated, a stepping stone from the big three ships to FCs would be nice. Either a mini-FC or some bigger ship (T11) would fill the void. Hopefully FD will think of longer term game goals, like ownership of settlements, etc. Allowing our crew to fly our ships would nice too, allowing them to do simple trading in the background.

 

[Demonlord79]

This a very good subject for Dev's to take a VERY good look at as of now all FC's are just space junk and clutter trash in systems.

1: All an FC is just a personal ship just as any other ship with the option to park YOUR fleet on board an move YOUR fleet all at once DEFEATING the entire point of transporting ships from system to system via the unmanned transport idea. (Did anyone ever think of that one when designing FC's?)
2: Have you ever tried to do an in a system with 100+ FC's, Jesus, it's a joke least of all trying to select something, what ever.
3: 70% of FC's I've come across don't even allow access and if they do they don't offer anything but let you donate fuel for the FC, if even that.
4: 100% of FC's that I do come across that do allow access, offer nothing but donations for fuel or basic fix and fueling of docked ships and never use commodity functions, with a tax when the damn thing is parked right next to a damn station. what is the point of that unless to serve as a staging point for your fleet as stated above, which the overwhelming majority of them don't go any were, they just sit there for no reason but to clutter a system.
5: I HAVE NEVER COME ACROSS ANY FC's THAT DO ANYTHING MORE THAN WHAT HAS BEEN STATED ABOVE.......
6: 5 billion credits for a new and bigger ship, OMG seriously, (oh but it's not a ship is it, it's an FC)....NO, IT'S JUST ANOTHER DAMN SHIP THAT'S BIGGER, just as everyone thought when the Cutter or Corvette came out.
7: If there is no true purpose of a FC but to clutter systems for somebodies fleet staging point then just let everyone have one for an acceptable price. 5 billion, come on. The highest priced ship is a Imperial Cutter at approximately 200 million. Given what a FC carries and jump range is, you figure an accessible price would be closer to 1 or 1.5 billion and remember you don't have to hold any EXPERIENCE nor any RANK to buy one. Seriously Dev's, you needed to grind your ASS off for either or both the Cutter or Corvette WITH RANK.

Conclusion: Lower the ridiculous price to around 1 or 1.5 billion and leave the upkeep costs for those who are committed to their SHIP as that is the only purpose players use them for.
Good idea on what you thought they would be used for but that was a COMPLETE failure given that some ships can run as high as 70Ly which puts the FC on the stupid jump range but that's an entirely different debate.

LOWER THE PRICE, KEEP THE UPKEEP.......... Very simple.

 

[JTFireblaze]

This a very good subject for Dev's to take a VERY good look at as of now all FC's are just space junk and clutter trash in systems.

1: All an FC is just a personal ship just as any other ship with the option to park YOUR fleet on board an move YOUR fleet all at once DEFEATING the entire point of transporting ships from system to system via the unmanned transport idea. (Did anyone ever think of that one when designing FC's?)
2: Have you ever tried to do an in a system with 100+ FC's, Jesus, it's a joke least of all trying to select something, what ever.
3: 70% of FC's I've come across don't even allow access and if they do they don't offer anything but let you donate fuel for the FC, if even that.
4: 100% of FC's that I do come across that do allow access, offer nothing but donations for fuel or basic fix and fueling of docked ships and never use commodity functions, with a tax when the damn thing is parked right next to a damn station. what is the point of that unless to serve as a staging point for your fleet as stated above, which the overwhelming majority of them don't go any were, they just sit there for no reason but to clutter a system.
5: I HAVE NEVER COME ACROSS ANY FC's THAT DO ANYTHING MORE THAN WHAT HAS BEEN STATED ABOVE.......
6: 5 billion credits for a new and bigger ship, OMG seriously, (oh but it's not a ship is it, it's an FC)....NO, IT'S JUST ANOTHER DAMN SHIP THAT'S BIGGER, just as everyone thought when the Cutter or Corvette came out.
7: If there is no true purpose of a FC but to clutter systems for somebodies fleet staging point then just let everyone have one for an acceptable price. 5 billion, come on. The highest priced ship is a Imperial Cutter at approximately 200 million. Given what a FC carries and jump range is, you figure an accessible price would be closer to 1 or 1.5 billion and remember you don't have to hold any EXPERIENCE nor any RANK to buy one. Seriously Dev's, you needed to grind your off for either or both the Cutter or Corvette WITH RANK.

Conclusion: Lower the ridiculous price to around 1 or 1.5 billion and leave the upkeep costs for those who are committed to their SHIP as that is the only purpose players use them for.
Good idea on what you thought they would be used for but that was a COMPLETE failure given that some ships can run as high as 70Ly which puts the FC on the stupid jump range but that's an entirely different debate.

LOWER THE PRICE, KEEP THE UPKEEP.......... Very simple.

You think FCs do nothing but take up space, and your solution is to make them cheaper?

All that will do is fill space with more crap though...

 

[SecretIdentity]

I don't know about the cheaper carrier bit as even with 5 billion Cr base cost, carriers are already clogging up the maps of systems in the bubble. According to Inara there are at least 23,000 fleet carriers already. With a cheaper option available, the numbers could literary increase 10 folds.

As for an exploration carrier though, I love that idea! A smaller carrier with less pads (1 L, 2 M, 2 S) , less capacity (10,000T) but higher jump range (maybe 1000 LYs) or shorter jump cooldown (5 min max) and lower fuel consumption. (Maybe even able to fuel scoop?) Maybe it has less functionality, like no commodity and black market to make the original carriers still relevant.

 

[lemon407]

So my DREAM thing to be added to this game, is basically exactly what we are discussing being added, a smaller cruiser like carrier that can carry a much smaller number of ships, again talking alike 2 large ships at most.

But it can be flown in space and jump from location to location like normal ships BUT it is not flown with a HOTAS.

Instead the ship is flown via commands in the form of either direct heading commands. IE
"Roll -15, pitch 40, engines forward 50% power"
And the ship itself its armed with turreted weapons only and has a single fixed forward facing capital weapon system, that is either a massive laser array, torpedo launcher, plasma accelerator, or cannon array that is designed to engage other capital ship/instillation weapons.

 

[DemiserofD]

An imperial cutter costs about 1b when fully upgraded. You're asking for something capable of carrying multiple Cutters, yet costing exactly the same amount?

Frankly, the cost of Fleet carriers is much too low. Not only should this suggestion never, ever happened, the price of Fleet carriers should be increased probably five fold.

 

[JTFireblaze]

An imperial cutter costs about 1b when fully upgraded. You're asking for something capable of carrying multiple Cutters, yet costing exactly the same amount?

Frankly, the cost of Fleet carriers is much too low. Not only should this suggestion never, ever happened, the price of Fleet carriers should be increased probably five fold.

I can't see them changing current carriers to be honest. Imagine the salt.

If they made a larger carrier that was five times the price and made Squadron Exclusive it could work though. A proper Guild base that would encourage people to guild up and work together.

Then a smaller carrier that is 1-2Bn, honestly I think it'd be fairly priced even if you're comparing it to a top line A rated Cutter. This thing would be a big dock with an engine on it. Compared to the absolute death machine you can turn a cutter in to.

3 sizes. Small for the filthy casuals like myself. Medium sized for the dedicated player. And a squadron exclusive behemoth.

 

[lemon407]

An imperial cutter costs about 1b when fully upgraded. You're asking for something capable of carrying multiple Cutters, yet costing exactly the same amount?

Frankly, the cost of Fleet carriers is much too low. Not only should this suggestion never, ever happened, the price of Fleet carriers should be increased probably five fold.

Thats actually a pretty disingenuious comparison when you consider that yes, a cutter costs like 1b, but you can do so much with a cutter.
That 4 billion carries just jumps around and holds your crap. you cant fight with it, you cant land with it. You cant do missions with it. It just sits there.

Now yeah, if your carries cost 4b and you could take it into conflict zone and unload on things with it, i would understand saying its way to cheap, but thats not the case.
For what the carrier offers its priced just fine.

I think asking for a smaller more personal version of a carrier, like a cruiser that fills the same role as a carrier but for a single person, would not be considerable to be underpriced at say 1 or 2b

 

[SecretIdentity]

Then a smaller carrier that is 1-2Bn, honestly I think it'd be fairly priced even if you're comparing it to a top line A rated Cutter. This thing would be a big dock with an engine on it. Compared to the absolute death machine you can turn a cutter in to.

Don't you think that's way too cheap for something that is persistent? In this game you can easily make over a hundred million credits an hour. Literary every player and his/her pet will have one if that's the case. Imagine the clatter.

 

[lemon407]

Don't you think that's way too cheap for something that is persistent? In this game you can easily make over a hundred million credits an hour. Literary every player and his/her pet will have one if that's the case. Imagine the clatter.

You mean like the parking lot that is half of the systems inside the bubble now? I dont really see the relevancy of that argument considering that we already have that problem in the game.
Plus when you consider the idea behind these would be for personal use, they would not be showing up on the radar/map for everyone else.

 

[JTFireblaze]

Don't you think that's way too cheap for something that is persistent? In this game you can easily make over a hundred million credits an hour. Literary every player and his/her pet will have one if that's the case. Imagine the clatter.

I'd make personal carriers not persistent. Only visible to you and your wing.

They should be able to store ships and do the basic stuff. Outfitting, repairs, and jump.

No need for them to be persistent

 

[SecretIdentity]

Plus when you consider the idea behind these would be for personal use, they would not be showing up on the radar/map for everyone else.

Interesting point here. So if it's strictly for personal use, am I to assume that there would also be no need for a commodity and black market then? Shipyard and Outfitting services also wouldn't be a thing for these small carriers if that's the case since carrier owners can use both of those functions without them installed.

Certainly intriguing. Maybe more can be expanded on this.

 

[DemiserofD]

It sounds like what you really want is normal Fleet carriers to cost less. Because, let's face it, the primary function of a fleet carrier is just jumping your fleet around. Virtually nobody uses most of the other functions. The few people who do, are groups like operation Ida, and the last thing you want to do is penalize their emergent content with higher prices.

But, no matter how you look at it, no matter how much you criticize it, I find my 5 billion credit investment more than worth the price. In fact, I think it would have been worth it even if it costs substantially more.

Adding a cheaper carrier alternative doesn't make the game better, it just makes it easier. And that is not a Hallmark of a good change.