After looking at the new beta, I have a few comments. It is time for serious discussion AND the DEVS to listen to us.

[Deleted member 115407]

And...game over. Shall we all move over to the thread complaining about the lack of ultra smexy hair options? Who's with me?

I'm in.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Err... yes they do. The amount of play time you get from a game == your enjoyment of it as < enjoyment = < time played, no?

I am constantly amazed at how many "clever" people are on this forum given the "mature" audience.

Well, nevermind, fly safe CMDR.

Ok then I'l lsay it again - you don't judge enjoyment on the amount of time you spent doing soemthing. Like I pointed out before, making love for 3 hours to your wife or GF is worth 10,000 hours of ED game time.

And no, enjoyment does not = time played. How can you even say that? Are you new here - have you not read the hundreds of accounts of people watching netfilx they're so bored. What about explorers that literally fly into stars because they fell asleep because they were so bored? What about the lid dropping fun of combat zones where you zone out and almost fall asleep? Are you telling me that hyperjumping is fun? That SC is fun? It's amazing you think that the time spent doing something = fun - you've never been doing something that you spent hours over but got very little fun out of in the real world?

 

[jasonbarron]

Ok then I'l lsay it again - you don't judge enjoyment on the amount of time you spent doing soemthing. Like I pointed out before, making love for 3 hours to your wife or GF is worth 10,000 hours of ED game time.

And no, enjoyment does not = time played. How can you even say that? Are you new here - have you not read the hundreds of accounts of people watching netfilx they're so bored. What about explorers that literally fly into stars because they fell asleep because they were so bored? What about the lid dropping fun of combat zones where you zone out and almost fall asleep? Are you telling me that hyperjumping is fun? That SC is fun? It's amazing you think that the time spent doing something = fun - you've never been doing something that you spent hours over but got very little fun out of in the real world?

Who makes love to their wife for three hours? The guy who owns 51% of 's stock?

 

[tomalus]

Shorter beta please, over month long betas are too much waiting

 

[Jex =TE=]

Thanks!
.
I was thinking more about how that sort of mission system could improve other areas of Elite. For instance, the current nerf being done to shield boosters. I won't go into the pros and cons of that, only that we all know that there are very differing views on it! But think of a situation where you are on patrol duty. You are most definitely a combat pilot, but if you've outfitted every utility slot with shield boosters, then you can't scan your targets for illicit cargo. If you don't have a wake scanner, you can't track the fleeing pirate back to his base.
.
Same would be true of other "discovered in the void," missions. What might start out as exploration might end up as combat. Or combat might turn into a rescue mission. ie. if you go out in a build without some flexibility, you are going to end up at a disadvantage. Sure, you have uber-impenetrable shields, but what good is that if you fail the mission because you can't scan your targets? Make those other modules more useful. Perhaps we could use scanners to pinpoint weaknesses in enemy shields, so good scanners even become a counter to blunt force.
.
I'd also add that some diversity to the environment would be nice, in terms of adding tactics. eg. heavy metal asteroids may mess up targeting on low-grade sensors. So fleeing into an asteroid field could be a good escape plan and even allow you to turn the tables on an attacker if they foolishly follow you in. One of the best parts of Star Trek 2 was how they used the nebula to balance the playing field when outgunned. Having environments that make shields useless would be interesting in Elite. Especially if such environments might not be obvious if you aren't carrying some exotic sensors. Perhaps you need some new particle scanner utility module to pick up radiation emitting from a planet's rings. Your attacker doesn't know this because he's short-sightedly fitted his Fer-De-Lance with six shield boosters. Silly boy! Now he's going to follow you into that field, unaware that his shields are about to drop. Or unaware that flying in there at full speed with an overcharged thruster is about to ignite a volatile gas and see his top speed cut by 50%. Should have flown with more scanners and he wouldn't have been massacred by that sneaky Sidewinder he was hunting. That pilot was clever enough to use his scanners to lure the bigger ship into a trap, use the environment to counter his opponent's advantages and perhaps ended the engagement by using his own plasma accelerator to ignite that previous pocket of gas again and send the poor Ferdie into an uncontrollable dive towards the nearest asteroid.
.
Just some ideas to both spice up a combat engagement and to make non-shield boosters also useful in a combat situation - meaning that smart combat players would stop carrying six boosters because it actually puts them at a disadvantage.

I think the ships need a complete redesign to follow a physical model. This means you don't have ridiculous weights for things like a class D life support weighing 100 tons more because it's on a bigger ship. Get rid of stupid shield cell boosters and all that nonsense. If I can have a shield cell booster, why not just give me a bigger powerplant and bigger shields rather than rely on a thing I have to activate at the right time? Get rid of the stupid magic potions and bring the combat back to WW2 which is what it was designed around.

Next redesign travel. Everything goes via SuperCruise - hyperspace is done with. Stupid jump screen after jump screen is gone and replaced with a nice smooth journey in SC - yes it will be almost as boring but not as frustrating. You would plot your course and let the nav computer take over. Skill and challenge can be added here by having safe nav routes that take you along a safe path to your system or you can cut the corner and take a shortcut. That shortcut could have you smash into a star or increase your chance of interdiction - this might actually make piracy fun - you have loads of time to set up an attack! Navigation would also be affected by gravity meaning if you do the maths, you can plot really good routes meaning it's possible to do a "Kessel Run" in under 12 parsecs (a unit of distance).

Add a proper stealth mechanic to it and now we're changing the game to give more emergent gameplay on which you can then expand more missions, more persistancy, etc, etc

 

[Kaltern]

Nice to see another thread full of people who can't be civil to people who don't like the game as it is right now for whatever reason.

What IS it about threads like these that cause those who don't agree with those that say they're not happy with the game for X reason, to go all aggressive and sarcastic on them? Is there some sort of compulsion that I'm not aware of?

Every single person who has paid to play this game have to absolute right to criticise and offer suggestions to improve it. Assuming they do it in a calm, constructive manner, I fail to see why people who disagree feel the need to not only say so, but attempt to put these posters down by being sarcastic and aggressive in their tone of 'voice'.

If you're happy with the game, great, go and discuss it in threads for that purpose. These threads don't concern you.

 

[Jex =TE=]

No no, don't deflect. You effectively said anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. If you are willing to back down on that, meaning you are up for an open and honest discussion, then i'll answer your questions.

Here's my original post

It's empty for PVE combateers as well unless you like playing whach-a-mole. Combat is as boring as everything else after you've done it a few times. It's the same stuff - nothing unexpected happens. People who are gamers recognize the flaws, those people that aren't gamers don't get it.

here's your reply ...

LOL, well, that's one way to sound a tad silly don't you think? Basically you are saying "Everyone who disagrees with me is wrong"

Come on Jex, i'm sure you can do much better than that.

Source: Me, gamer of 40 years, who still enjoys PvE combat in ED after 2 years.

I'm not deflecting, I'm correcting your assumption where you thought I said everyone else is wrong and now you went and double downed on it. You don't have an asnwer to my pervious post though you like to make up what other people mean. I quite clearly corrected you above and now you want me to do it a third time? Are you trolling me?

Care to point out where I said anyone that disgrees with me is wrong? From this...

People who are gamers recognize the flaws, those people that aren't gamers don't get it.

 

[Zambrick]

Nice to see another thread full of people who can't be civil to people who don't like the game as it is right now for whatever reason.

What IS it about threads like these that cause those who don't agree with those that say they're not happy with the game for X reason, to go all aggressive and sarcastic on them? Is there some sort of compulsion that I'm not aware of?

Every single person who has paid to play this game have to absolute right to criticise and offer suggestions to improve it. Assuming they do it in a calm, constructive manner, I fail to see why people who disagree feel the need to not only say so, but attempt to put these posters down by being sarcastic and aggressive in their tone of 'voice'.

If you're happy with the game, great, go and discuss it in threads for that purpose. These threads don't concern you.

Dont defend the OPs point of view. I tried to and then he attacked me...a supporter. I am pretty sure this person wants a forum fight and doesnt care who is on his side and who isnt.

That is why this thread needs to die. Its no longer productive. It has moved into the realm of total defense of ones point with no regards to anyone elses.

Had the OP not contended with every little fact presented or flaw pointed out, then the thread could have continued. Sadly OP killed his own thread.

If I were you would start another less confrontational OP on the topic, if you truly want to discuss this.

 

[PyrateLV]

I have been part of a number of discussions lately, many outside these official forums. And I have found those discussions are all regarding one thing.. Elite and how many players have either given up and no longer play or those rarely doing so and thinking about it.

One of the problems I want to touch on before saying my piece though, is I do NOT want to be inundated with a bunch of over the top fanboy replies. If you cannot join this discussion as an adult, if you feel you have to berate someone with a different opinion than your own, DON'T POST.

This is a discussion. I also want to make one thing clear: I WANT the game to grow and succeed. This is not about putting down or knocking down the game. It is about trying to SAVE IT because there are THOUSANDS of players who have stopped playing or are near that point. Obviously me writing this should tell you that I too am frustrated enough to do this. All I personally see is a lot more 'pretty' ooh and ahh features that actually add no real substance, no real content for players to actually do to the game. It is time that the DEVS of Elite start listening to we players. Yes, we see your vision and where you want to go. But in your quest, you are forgetting we the player and the fact we need to be engaged, we need to be entertained, we need to find ourselves having FUN in the game.

I joined Elite Dangerous back from day one. I am one of those original Founders. I have patiently sat here, watched and waited as improvements were made, bugs were fixed and time moved on. I have had complaints about things just like everyone else has. But I have stuck it out and kept the faith that eventually we would get to something I could consider 'fun' and immersive. Well, after the last few days of round and round in some other discussions with over the top fanboy types, I decided it was time to make my opinion official here in the official forums... in HOPE that Elite DEVS might just read this and understand what it happening out here to even their most long term supporters.

To put it bluntly.... The game is BORING. There is no immersion. There is no impulse to want to stay in the universe and game. And I realized that this may not change for a long time to come based on the new beta patch and the content being added.

The new patch adds a number of 'nice' features like holo avatars, some more decal markings for your ships and a few other things. But it does NOTHING to address the much more important and serious issue of game play itself. Just like the Horizons and Passengers and Engineers updates, this one too adds some nice pretty things to the game but it does not change anything in the underlying engine or universe in terms of fun or immersive experience.

There is no 'drive' to want to do anything. There is no draw that sucks you in and keeps you there. No story that engages your mind.

Now some might try to point to the new 'Thargoid' threat. ok.. ask yourself.. how many months ago was that and how many of you reading this have experienced some immersive game play and excitement since then? I haven't. Even so, that is actually not what I am talking about overall. If things continue, a FEW players will get the honor of spending hours upon hours of finding some isolated place with a clue or perhaps having a 2 minute encounter with an alien Thargoid. And while that might be enough for that one person for that one time, what about the other 364 days of the year and the thousands of other players who don't?

Elite needs MORE than that.. MUCH more. What I am talking about are things like an actual real functional economy driven universe. One that can and does generate DYNAMIC procedural based missions. There are no BIOMES. None. All planets are basically the same rock. And yes, I know, some of that is because the DEVS want to try and keep as close to mathematical reality as the real universe.. One problem.. IT IS BORING. Not to mention, we humans actually HAVE NO IDEA what planets look like or are made of. Math does not answer all especially since mankind is truly an infant when it comes to full on math and the cosmos. Regardless, sometimes you have to fudge things just a bit to make things FUN. It is a GAME after all.

You can go to any planet and land and find... the same thing. Nothing. A few poi's that might have some minerals and drones that attack. You can drive and drive and drive you buggy in circles for hours... and nothing happens. There is nothing to see or find being generated. Why have true to life dull planets because you want 'real life' immersion.. yet turn around in the next sentence and talk about an alien race called the 'Thargoids'.. something we know is not real? That is an oxymoron in itself. Games need to be FUN as well as close to realistic and immersive as possible. Elite, right now, is not. The ability for users to find, mine and use materials to craft things, build things, find true POI's that are dynamic and lead into short story lines etc. Those are the kinds of things this game needs.

We have NONE of that. Right now Elite is made of a lot of pretty graphics, basic flight mechanics and a whole buttload of canned scripted missions, the only difference between them being how they are worded. Take this, go there, drop it off. Load these people, fly them there (maybe with a fight on the way) and drop them off. Mine this, bring it back. Shoot some drones, win the mission. When all done, rinse and repeat it all over again for a few more credits.. MOST of which you will now spend on repairing all the damage to your ship you took.

I know some of you reading are going to get all bent out of shape. You need to sit back, shut up and truly THINK about what I just wrote.

This is NOT about dissing the game or DEVS. This is about what MOST OF US feel about Elite at this point in time. It is about all those who have given up and all those about to give up. This is about SAVING THE GAME WE ALL WANT TO PLAY AND LOVE.

IF we did not care, if we were here to cut it down, I would not be writing this. It is time for the DEVS of Elite to pay attention to the players and backers of the game. It is time to acknowledge that our voices have been heard and they understand what we are saying.

And if they can't.. or won't.. Well, I am afraid the future does not look bright for Elite.

I want to enjoy myself, see new things, expand my horizons.. I want to be engrossed and immersed so that I am driven to load the game every day, looking forward to something new or exciting. Right now, I load the game.. and I just realized this as I wrote it... I load the game and almost feel a sense of dread because I know I am headed into the same thing... grinding rinse and repeat the same missions over and over with a few battles interspersed here and there.

Even I know that when that is how one feels when they go to do something, it is time for either those working on the thing you want to do either listen and make changes, or it is time for me to move on and leave it all behind for good.

Now the question is.. What will the Elite Devs say or do from this point? I guess I will find out one way or the other in the next few coming months. Either they will listen and pay attention, consider what some of us are saying.. or they won't.

I am curious to hear other thoughts regarding my post.

Totally agree 100%
+Rep

 

[Deadspin]

Anyone else amused that, after 25 pages (I don't set my post buffer as high as some of you), there's still no Frontier reply to this caterwauling?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Anyone else amused that, after 25 pages (I don't set my post buffer as high as some of you), there's still no Frontier reply to this caterwauling?

It should have been an Open Letter.

 

[Kellan Fell]

I thought it was pretty obvious myself. Gameplay, because at the moment, the actual gameplay is very basic at the moment. Right now I am beginning to feel the same. Exploring is so bland, not because of the beige planets, but because of the virtually non existant scanning mechanics, that give me zero reason to go and land on said planet.

Res site that are there for bounty farming. It's farming because there are not gameplay mechanics. There is nothing there.

Combat zones are the same. There is no real game play except for the exact same gameplay the is at a res site. Basically shooting ships in a pointless area. There is basically nothing there to make things fun.

^^^^ This ^^^^
So much, this! We've got a beautiful universe out there and it's all basically beige and covered in small rocks...

So what you are saying is that you are burnt out, have done pretty much everything in game and you want more stuff to do?

Sounds like you need a break until development catches up to your desires.

All these threads happened with EVE at about the 3 year mark as well and are normal. People like yourself think that development happens a lot quicker than it does in reality.

It's simply really, it's taken you these past couple of years to do the original content plus a few tweaks. If it's not fun any more give it a break until the development injects more 'content' that will interest you.

I don't think he's saying he's burned out at all, I think what he's saying is that beyond the basic window dressing of a 400 billion system galaxy, there's not a real lot going on in the game.
All of us that have been here since day 1 have probably reached the same point. You've got the cash, you've got the ships, you may even have the ranks, so what is there left?
Exploration? Lots of jump/honk/scan wash rinse repeat, with the bizarre situation where if you die you lose all the exploration data you've racke up, but you keep any minerals you've found?!? I'd love to know the rational behind that one, your escape pod can store thousands of units of minerals, but not a data file?

It's a bitter pill to swallow, but like the OP, I've reached the point where although I love the game, I am prepared to admit that it is BORING. It just happens to be addivtively boring.

Missions, passengers, CG's are all basically the same, pick up A, take it to B... Maybe there'll be a random interdiction.
RES sites and CZ's just spawn an infinite number of opponents with no real logic behind them, so you can farm bounties or rank.
Every planet you land on is essentially the identical rock with boulders scattered across the surface and the occassional thing you can shoot to pick up a few minerals. And since 2.2 they're all pretty much the same shade of beige. I'm not asking for atmospheric landings, I'm just asking for some variety. I love bouncing over the surface in an SRV just as much as the next guy, but when you've bounced on a couple of hundred planets and they're basically all identical (whether they advertise themselves as rocky or icy), then it frankly gets dull.

What he's asking for is a framework to the universe...
We've got 3 major factions with a number of "powers" in each, but where is the conflict, where is the on-going story? How are relations between the Empire and the Federation affecting life? Is there rising tension?
Signing up to a faction is simply another method of farming "pick up A, take it to B" in order to get cash or a "special" item, but what are you actually achieving?

I know there are a number of dedicated players who spend more time managing the BGS than they do actually flying, but in reality where is the economy? If we had a proper economic model then NPC freighters would serve a purpose other than targets. Each faction could have manufacturing centres that produce ships, but only if fed with materials, so Trader becomes a viable (and important) profession.
Explorers could discover mineral deposits that miners could move in on and work to put the materials into the economy.

These are all the kind of things that were sold to us in the beginning. It wouldn't take much to make this game truly magnificent, but unfortunately avatars and multi-pew are not what it needs, depth of content is what is needed.

 

[Rob At Work]

It should have been an Open Letter.

And FD have gone strangely AWOL since the "Banning OF The Polls" hmmmm....

 

[Ozric]

*Edit* Actually decided I couldn't be bothered

 

[Kellan Fell]

Ummm yes, actually, there is plenty. 9 Canonn threadnaughts of over 110,000 posts is just one example.

So we should rely on Forum posts to add depth to the game universe?

 

[IamMe]

Nice to see another thread full of people who can't be civil to people who don't like the game as it is right now for whatever reason.

What IS it about threads like these that cause those who don't agree with those that say they're not happy with the game for X reason, to go all aggressive and sarcastic on them? Is there some sort of compulsion that I'm not aware of?

Every single person who has paid to play this game have to absolute right to criticise and offer suggestions to improve it. Assuming they do it in a calm, constructive manner, I fail to see why people who disagree feel the need to not only say so, but attempt to put these posters down by being sarcastic and aggressive in their tone of 'voice'.

If you're happy with the game, great, go and discuss it in threads for that purpose. These threads don't concern you.

Cos this is forum and it is full of ppl with complexes so they turn out to be both (fanboys/haters).
They don't want anybody say anything against their game cos that game and this forum is their life.
I must say this is the worst community i ever saw, honor to the exceptions!
Every thread that have critic in it is scamed with same frases by those ppl.
And they are doing more damage than constructive critic.
You can recognise those ppl by attacking every suggestion and critic but later when devs add those things they are defending it with their life.
Haters (not critics) are also common.
Solution; just ignore them.

 

[ZeeWolf]

If I were a game dev (again) I think I'd find this thread a little bit confusing.

There are frequent posts along the same lines (game is boring) but the problem is all games are boring to someone. I find lots of games boring that others enjoy, I'm just not a fan of games about stealing cars and sexy wizards - but there you go.

You really have to boil down why you still play ED if you find it boring, it's probably because there is quite a bit too it that actually isn't boring. Then if you want to be constructive try to boil down can actually be achieved in the context of an Elite game?

Coming in with preconceptions about what another unfinished game will do isn't that helpful. The developers of that game have their own challenges and if they haven't delivered it yet, is really something you can point of as an example of how it should be done? It's really easy to talk about how you think a big open world, multi-player space game should work - it's an enormous achievement to deliver anything close to what you imagined.

What would work in the context of Elite? More narrative around missions? More story? Great, how do they deliver that so it can be consumed by thousands of players for thousands of hours. It's nor a case of just scripting a dozen push button missions with voice acting like the tutorial missions. Those can be consumed in minutes.

Now that's not to say that the game is fine as it is, it's an iterative development process so of course it's going to have more stuff and of course constructive criticism if thoughtfully formed can help the developers.

I would like to see combat zones that dynamically change depending on who is winning. Rather than endless spawning of the enemy I'd like to be in a battle that eventually ended.

I would like to see missions chain into interesting stories and I'd like to see mcguffin" items that we can chase down and collect.

I think all of this is possible in the context of an Elite game.

Sorry if this is rambling, just my two-cents

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

And FD have gone strangely AWOL since the "Banning OF The Polls" hmmmm....

There's apparently some kind of 'beta' thing going on. I guess that's taking up a lot of their time.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm just not a fan of games about sexy wizards

Stopped reading right there

 

[Deadspin]

So we should rely on Forum posts to add depth to the game universe?

To actually contribute for a change;

This is my exact issue with ED and has been since Beta/Gamma/Launch. So many times I've found myself looking to sources outside of the game for lore, for mechanics, for basic assistance that, 1000+ years from now, should have become basic commodities/functions of any ship/system. It's 2017. I live in the US but within seconds I can look up the gas prices and local food recommendations for whatever region of China (or any country) I want to visit. Yet, a thousand years from now, finding out what commodities a station the next system over has in stock is impossible without alt-tabbing out of the game.

I grew bored of the game many months ago and am at a point where I might log in once every few weeks to push my ship a little further out towards Sag A for as long as I can before the tedium gets me or whatever movie I've pulled up on Netflix on my second monitor finishes and I move on to a different game to actually have some fun.

 

[Astirian]

Skill and challenge can be added here by having safe nav routes that take you along a safe path to your system or you can cut the corner and take a shortcut.

Oh my God yes. We will *never* get that in Elite though. Which is probably fine. I just find it funny imagining Star Wars or Star Trek scenes but they keep dropping out of Hyperspace/Warp every 30 seconds. Then they all get frustrated like ya do when you're mid-sentence and the overly loud GPS in the car interrupts you.