Allow use of pre 3.3 Advanced Discovery Scanner

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yeah, But I don't care about the exact position. For me, it's a case of look at the marks on the Scanner line and if there's a planet that I'm interested in then scan it, otherwise move on. The upshot is that I am no longer just Honk, Scoop and jump anymore. I end up scanning the whole system anyway and it's the main reason I just got Exploration Elite over the weekend.

And that's fine. Other players look for other things in a system. Your playstyle is catered for, ours isn't. If there is a solution that maintains your playstyle, and enables ours again, no harm done right? The more players who enjoy exploration the better.

Marx had a great example a while ago. He found a system with 5 high metal content planets orbiting each other. Five! That's a spectacular discovery in my book, far more interesting than an ELW. You can't extrapolate these kind of configurations from the EM spectrum. So with the new system I'd see there's a bunch of HMCs in a system, nothing noteworthy, and move on. Missing a great discovery.

The only way not to miss these kinds of systems is FSSing every system. And that's no solution for me. It's the pinnacle of grind. The ideal situation is to have the information available to me to determine a system holds these kinds of gems, while not interfering with the playstyle of those enjoying the FSS. And I feel that solution is perfectly doable.

I do realise though that the chance of any of this being implemented is minute though. For one, it's in the suggestions section, the thread has been vitrioled so I can image any developer will have given up on it, there's a feature freeze until 2020, and it took Frontier 4 years to pay some attention to exploration.

So all of this is just academic.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

They already did. Since the introduction of the FSS and the removal of the ADS that's the exploration that is left to me. The FSS discourages me from investigating systems. Because I sure as heck aren't going to play the FSS minigame every system.

Reintroducing the ADS will give me back my damn honk-check map-jump-honk-check map-jump-honk-check map-ju... hang on ... that looks interesting-fly-fly-fly-land-drive-drive-drive-snap-snap-drive-take off-fly-fly-jump ... As opposed to honk-blue ball game-jump-honk-blue ball game-jump-honk-blue ..... ugh, screw this blue ball game ....just check EM spectrum-jump-honk-check EMS-jump-honk-check EMS ... oh look an ELW-scan from star-jump-honk-check EMS-quit game-uninstall

This sums up my thoughts perfectly.

Prior to the FSS I enjoyed looking for close-orbit bodies and getting snapshots of multiple bodies in the same shot, 5 or more if possible. Oh, and I did it in VR.

Now, having almost arrived at Beagle Point for DW2, the whole way I've been cherry-picking ELWs. Must have found 30+ on this trip. And no VR, as the FSS is an even worse experience in VR.

Honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk.

And to add insult to injury, the FSS zero throttle means really clunky scoop-charge-jump. Sigh.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

This sums up my thoughts perfectly.

Prior to the FSS I enjoyed looking for close-orbit bodies and getting snapshots of multiple bodies in the same shot, 5 or more if possible. Oh, and I did it in VR.

Now, having almost arrived at Beagle Point for DW2, the whole way I've been cherry-picking ELWs. Must have found 30+ on this trip. And no VR, as the FSS is an even worse experience in VR.

Honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk-check squiggles-jump-honk.

And to add insult to injury, the FSS zero throttle means really clunky scoop-charge-jump. Sigh.

Yup, doing the same thing myself now... cherrypicking, my trip out was in the old days to some 40kly and had a great time finding stuff and obviously scanning all or nothing, here on the way back I'm cherrypicking leaving the dregs to rot.

"That ain't working, that's the way you do it, money for nothing and your tags for free...."

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yes, they can max, it just takes a lot longer than it did because of the sheer boredom of constantly coming to a stop to honk is a silly mini game, reselecting 'Combat mode' so I can steer my ship and pressing accelerate again, so much so that I for one have to keep taking a brake from the monotony.

You don't need to stop to honk. The only time I come to a stop is to open the FSS and I can tell with a glance if I want to stay or not, but I do that while fuel scooping and it takes seconds.

Also why go into combat mode if you are travel exploring. Keeping it in analysis mode would surely be a better option.

Still it seems to please you, otherwise you wouldn't bite everytime anybody said anything about the ADS/FSS that could possibly be corrected...

It's not what I do. That sounds like a waste of time and a very slow process. As to biting people everytime anybody says anything about the ADS/FSS that could possibly be corrected, I am unsure what you mean by that, so its difficult to actually comment on that. Doesn't really mean anything.

The only time I comment is regarding dishonest or stupid comments or when someone disses my own opinion because its not the same as theirs.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

2 ) A modlue slot is freed after the update therefore how about introducing a new module type(charter?) that would upon honk reveal system map, the way it used to happen with Advanced Discovery Scanner providing as little details as it did. I do recon though that such module should be balanced i.e.
a) be expensive
b) consume more power
c ) provide less credits per "honk"
3 ) Many new players alongside those who have already played significant amounts of time do seem to enjoy the new scanning method however main complaints i've come accross(myself included) is that
time to find that one, magnificient system is noticeably increased by enforcing players to perform whole scan and gauge whether it's worth staying(and now the important part - not for the credits but for the views). Oddities such as quaternary systems of moons and stars, odd orbits, bodies orbiting very close to eachother. As one of the comanders put it about exploration "a honk and a little brainpower would tell me if i wanted to stop. now im forced to stop ".

I can't decide on anything, I'm not part of FDEV, so this is my general opinion about your proposal:

Ok but:

1. It works only in the Bubble and it requires a minimum 3 size slot. You need to sacrifice something if you really want it.
2. It provides the system layout but no information about materials and status (pristine): it tells you if it's an ice/roky/metallic ring but not the materials that you can find in it. Same for the planets surface.It doesn't tell geological/biological sites nor materials.
3. Its price should be in the range of the most expensive modules in the game. 50 million cr. minimum. It's an end-game module (that's why it's very expensive), so you don't use it to earn easy credits or to become Elite quicker, but just to avoid gameloops that you already did a lot of times.
4. It provides 0 credits per honk. You only use it to spot rings, mission targets and to have a quick overview of the system, not to gain exploration data. If you want to earn exploration data you still need to scan the system with the FSS.

Anyway, I can tell you that the old ADS is not so different from the FSS. After the honk you immediately know if the system's got something interesting for you and from the entry point you can get all information that you need, before you needed a surface scan to know materials and status of the rings, so in your case you're not making it quicker and easier.
The only point where I see the FSS working worse is finding mission target locations, so not for exploration or mining activities.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

I can't decide on anything, I'm not part of FDEV, so this is my general opinion about your proposal:

Ok but:

1. It works only in the Bubble and it requires a minimum 3 size slot. You need to sacrifice something if you really want it.
2. It provides the system layout but no information about materials and status (pristine): it tells you if it's an ice/roky/metallic ring but not the materials that you can find in it. Same for the planets surface.It doesn't tell geological/biological sites nor materials.
3. Its price should be in the range of the most expensive modules in the game. 50 million cr. minimum. It's an end-game module (that's why it's very expensive), so you don't use it to earn easy credits or to become Elite quicker, but just to avoid gameloops that you already did a lot of times.
4. It provides 0 credits per honk. You only use it to spot rings, mission targets and to have a quick overview of the system, not to gain exploration data. If you want to earn exploration data you still need to scan the system with the FSS.

Anyway, I can tell you that the old ADS is not so different from the FSS. After the honk you immediately know if the system's got something interesting for you and from the entry point you can get all information that you need, before you needed a surface scan to know materials and status of the rings, so in your case you're not making it quicker and easier.
The only point where I see the FSS working worse is finding mission target locations, so not for exploration or mining activities.

I think you're missing the point of those asking for the return (albeit a modified one) of the ADS, it's so we can assess what there is to scan without the need to scan it first, (in general) we don't want credits, we don't want tags, and we don't want it to contribute in any way to becoming elite in Exploration... in fact I'd imagine that many/most of those folks that want it back are already elite in exploration and just want to enjoy the game again.
as for the specifics of your version of the 'new' ADS... why? it doesn't really make a great deal of sense having a QOL module that takes up so much space and costs so much when the all singing all dancing one is free and massless... I only see that if you were in charge you would be unreasonable because you don't like it, not because its overpowered, and it's not an end game module it's one that has been in use for FOUR years.
The old ADS gave us a chance to have a quick look at the map while spooling up for the next jump... there isn't much chance to gain any info except for a decision based of 2-3 seconds in many cases...

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Prior to the FSS I enjoyed looking for close-orbit bodies and getting snapshots of multiple bodies in the same shot, 5 or more if possible. Oh, and I did it in VR.

I still do this. What the FSS is good at is showing the orbits, where the planets/moons are in comparison to one another. I love those kinds of systems and find the FSS great for exactly that. Yes I don't get it straight away and sometimes I miss something because I have opened up the FSS and decided that the system isn't what I want. It's open to error, which I think is good. Thats life.

The main issue at the moment is that I do not get the orbital lines in VR which actually spoils the FSS for me. So I am forced to play on my monitor when I am using the FSS. I really hope they fix it soon.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

You don't need to stop to honk. The only time I come to a stop is to open the FSS and I can tell with a glance if I want to stay or not, but I do that while fuel scooping and it takes seconds.

Also why go into combat mode if you are travel exploring. Keeping it in analysis mode would surely be a better option.


It's not what I do. That sounds like a waste of time and a very slow process. As to biting people everytime anybody says anything about the ADS/FSS that could possibly be corrected, I am unsure what you mean by that, so its difficult to actually comment on that. Doesn't really mean anything.

The only time I comment is regarding dishonest or stupid comments or when someone disses my own opinion because its not the same as theirs.

I don't open any window while scooping, I scoop flat out, I fire probes with left mouse, I had FOUR YEARS of honking with left mouse and ensure I'm in 'combat' mode if I accidentally press that left mouse again... or I cannot steer my ship, you ain't me so don't even think about telling me how easy it would be if...

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I don't open any window while scooping, I scoop flat out, I fire probes with left mouse, I had FOUR YEARS of honking with left mouse and ensure I'm in 'combat' mode if I accidentally press that left mouse again... or I cannot steer my ship, you ain't me so don't even think about telling me how easy it would be if...

Okaaay. Not too sure what your issue is. None of what you are saying makes any sense. Why are you in combat mode when exploring. Why are you unneccsarily coming to a halt to honk. You are the one complaining about it. All I was doing is showing you that there is a faster and more efficient way to do it. If you like it as it is, why are you complaining.

All it is, is showing you there are other ways. I don't give a rats backside if you change it or not. I just find it a bit odd. Lets complain about the time it takes, then someone shows you that it can be shorter, then you shout at them for telling you that. Also I don't get the bit about not being able to steer your ship.

Also what the hell has four years of honking got to do with anything I said. I have had well over four years of honking. Does that make me the winner?

Your post is unnecessarily aggressive.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The old ADS gave us a chance to have a quick look at the map while spooling up for the next jump... there isn't much chance to gain any info except for a decision based of 2-3 seconds in many cases...

That's exactly it. The snap decision to abort charging the FSD. The first crumb. The system upon closer inspection still might be a dud, but at least there's something to go on. Which is why I'd be happy with just a visual non-interactive representation of the system.

You could spot binaries, coloured gas giants, odd gas giant configurations (B-stars) upon a glance this way. If I want to know about rotational or orbital periods, mass, composition, planet features, I'd still have to consult the FSS for this. But at least I'll know my chances of finding something interesting is increased from having to check each and every system this way. Just this one addition would have me check out many a system which I previously bypassed. The FSS would actually have been an addition to my gameplay, while the replacement of the ADS with the FSS meant it detracted from it.

I'll say it again, the ADS and the FSS could have been complementary to each other. One doesn't have to detract from the other. In some ways the FSS EM signature is more revealing than the ADS generated system map, and vice versa.

 

[Nihila Vex]

.

 

[Riverside]

I'm going to try to be as open-minded as I can here. Can you please explain to me - and I know that sounds confrontational but I mean it in the sincere sense of actually wanting to know - how the old system presents the explorer with the additional information you refer to here?

Say I've got an ADS, jump into a system where those five MR worlds are doing their dance, what would I see when I honked the system? What would happen - what would appear, and where - that would alert me to this unusual configuration, and show me that there's something here I may want to look at?

You would see the same amount of info as you would when you enter a system new to you but fully tagged by another player. A populated system map with partial information and a bunch of [unexplored] entries in the left nav panel & HUD.

Fitting an ADS would only be of any use at all in virgin or partially tagged systems.

 

[Nihila Vex]

.

 

[Burke]

I see that now. I'm trying to figure out what the old 'honk' method gives you that enables explorers to do more than they can under the FSS system. This thing about knowing where planets are, such as the five interacting metal worlds Ziggy was talking about.

Imagine you have a large number of systems. Say 100000. One system contains a green gas giant and one system contains an interesting orbit. With the FSS you would have to fully scan every single system to find out if that was one of the interesting finds. With the ADS you only have to honk them and look at the map to know instantly. Some people see the FSS as the gameplay, other see the actual galaxy itself as the gameplay. Or something like that

Edit: now try to imagine you are searching for something, but you dont know what it is till you find it and the number of systems is 400b. You see why the FSS is such a stinker?

 

[Stigbob]

I see that now. I'm trying to figure out what the old 'honk' method gives you that enables explorers to do more than they can under the FSS system. This thing about knowing where planets are, such as the five interacting metal worlds Ziggy was talking about.

Under the old system you could honk then open the system map and cherry pick based on the displayed planets, under the new system you honk then look at the FSS display to get exactly the same thing. Some just object to using the FSS to populate the system map to the same extent.

Nothings missing some people are just refusing to use it or adapt.

 

[ThatSmileyGuy]

It works only in the Bubble and it requires a minimum 3 size slot. You need to sacrifice something if you really want it.

I agree with some of the points in Your post but i must cross this one out. Since it's already the case. Map reveal works only in the Bubble and already discovered systems. And discovering the discovered is not really discovery at all.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Under the old system you could honk then open the system map and cherry pick based on the displayed planets, under the new system you honk then look at the FSS display to get exactly the same thing. Some just object to using the FSS to populate the system map to the same extent.

Nothings missing some people are just refusing to use it or adapt.

And...more importantly,
In the New FSS you don't even have to move away from where you came in... though with the nasty old overpowered ADS you had to fly all the way out to the body to scan it... and that could be some 3/4million light seconds distant

 

[Burke]

though with the nasty old overpowered ADS you had to fly all the way out to the body to scan it

Altho some of us might have enjoyed that flight, even considered that part of the exploration experience. For myself being right over the planet used to encourage me to land and drive around for a bit, see if there were any interesting sights.

Which leads me on to another point. For years we all had to fly out. Now nobody has to so its easy mode scanning with the FSS that totally devalues the effot that was put in previously. It used to be a case of "if you want that tag you spend a bit of time and effort" not these days....

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Under the old system you could honk then open the system map and cherry pick based on the displayed planets, under the new system you honk then look at the FSS display to get exactly the same thing. Some just object to using the FSS to populate the system map to the same extent.

Nothings missing some people are just refusing to use it or adapt.

The ability to register a body to the System Map/Nav Panel without simultaneously performing a level 3 scan on the body is missing.
But you knew that already.

 

[Stigbob]

And...more importantly,
In the New FSS you don't even have to move away from where you came in... though with the nasty old overpowered ADS you had to fly all the way out to the body to scan it... and that could be some 3/4million light seconds distant

Which is an odd thing some complain about they gripe they have to spend time using the FSS yet its a huge timesaver. You have a look from the star and move on or move in, no need to visit unless you choose to probe stuff.