Basing a statement on an assumption doesn't make it subjective Max, and the assumption made wasn't far fetched, again, I already told you why.
Allow use of pre 3.3 Advanced Discovery Scanner
- Thread starter ThatSmileyGuy
- Start date
Basing a statement on an assumption doesn't make it subjective Max, and the assumption made wasn't far fetched, again, I already told you why.
Ahem, I'm still waiting for you to tell me if white is winning or not...
Yep, this seems to be quite central to the discussion, that being able to see the system map is a reward for having scanned the system, not that the system map is a tool that players can use to decide whether they want to scan the system.
I can't agree with the reward point of view at all, not while the energy spectrum exists (and I'm not actually suggesting FD remove it, but I'd love to see the reaction if they did!), because that also shows players what is in the system before they have to scan it, except it only shows the things that FD thought would be of interest. Fine if you're looking for the things FD think explorers are looking for, not so fine if you are looking for something else.
Now, quite why anybody would see the system map as a reward (for a particular bit of gameplay) is of course subjective, and were I to give my opinions on that I've no doubt I would upset some people, so I won't.
But I will say that I think that the reward FD had in mind was simply that by using the FSS, you would cut out unnecessary long SC journeys, something that they know is an issue for quite a lot of players. 
Now that the nay sayers are finally clear, the point of difference between that and everyone else is exactly that.
People unsatisfied don’t see the system map as a reward at all. It’s not the point. The point of explanation is activity (not the credits or the tags) that the system map enables.
I appreciate it’s just as hard to perceive there is anything beyond the system map just as it is to perceive the system map as having a non zero intrinsic reward.
Edit: this line of thinking is dumb. If we could just make it like how Ziggy keeps suggesting everyone for and against just pull our heads out and get on with the game
People unsatisfied don’t see the system map as a reward at all. It’s not the point. The point of explanation is activity (not the credits or the tags) that the system map enables.
I appreciate it’s just as hard to perceive there is anything beyond the system map just as it is to perceive the system map as having a non zero intrinsic reward.
Edit: this line of thinking is dumb. If we could just make it like how Ziggy keeps suggesting everyone for and against just pull our heads out and get on with the game
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If there was any game to get on with it probably would have happened by now. Its a dead game, a project with no sense of direction. If you dont like bubble activitys there was only exploration and they have gated that with the FSS. Ever sinse the dev team changed the game has been going down hill fast, they dont add good things, instead its nonsense like the FSS, or over saturated colours.... undocking computer and super cruise. New ships that are basicly boring and without flavour. None of the stuff that was supposed to be coming mind, just nonsense and bugs. Not so much get on with the game as give up on it, but i wont forget being cheated by frontier.
Its not that bad Burke Don't get me wrong frontier suck NPS 1.5... but i was going to quit and found i have months of the usual sandbox stuff i still have left to do. Getting away from the frontier developments side of elite because you don't like them somehow improves the game too.. its closer to when you first started when its just you and space.
From recent self therapy in the thread on DD i think i've found the last piece of 'you're holding it wrong' to make the fss work. Basically if there are gas giants in the system, you can't "discover" anything else in the system until you've flash flown to the giants.. ie, if you really want to fly by discovery theres a restricted order you must do it in to be able to use the spectrum as the system map we don't have without excessive sit and spinning. I was putting in effort to master the fss to replace all the options from the system map when it literally does not contain the information before panning around like a.... spock. The recent addition of going to the zoomed in system map from the nav panel is a huge improvement to the overall flow. Tactical use of the fss (looking for specifics rather than clearing out, and only ffssing stuff infront of you) also help.
I understand "exploration is about interesting" people are shut down and the game isn't there anymore without sit and spin, completely true. But for the spaceflight crowd there might be a way through.
I hope the "the galaxy is nothing but a credit farm and places people told me to go" crowd are making up for the ship skin sales.
Don't get me wrong frontier suck NPS 1.5... but i was going to quit and found i have months of the usual sandbox stuff i still have left to do. Getting away from the frontier developments side of elite because you don't like them somehow improves the game too.. its closer to when you first started when its just you and space.From recent self therapy in the thread on DD i think i've found the last piece of 'you're holding it wrong' to make the fss work. Basically if there are gas giants in the system, you can't "discover" anything else in the system until you've flash flown to the giants.. ie, if you really want to fly by discovery theres a restricted order you must do it in to be able to use the spectrum as the system map we don't have without excessive sit and spinning. I was putting in effort to master the fss to replace all the options from the system map when it literally does not contain the information before panning around like a.... spock. The recent addition of going to the zoomed in system map from the nav panel is a huge improvement to the overall flow. Tactical use of the fss (looking for specifics rather than clearing out, and only ffssing stuff infront of you) also help.
I understand "exploration is about interesting" people are shut down and the game isn't there anymore without sit and spin, completely true. But for the spaceflight crowd there might be a way through.
I hope the "the galaxy is nothing but a credit farm and places people told me to go" crowd are making up for the ship skin sales.
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An assumption which cannot be backed up by facts and is biased is subjective. It is not the objective. Those are the facts of the matter. If cannot provide any certifiable facts instead of biased research, it's subjective.
WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND.
I even gave you the definition of objective which you have completely ignored and still say your subjective reason is objective. Utter bloody madness.
And you still miss the point of what people are saying.Now that the nay sayers are finally clear, the point of difference between that and everyone else is exactly that.
People unsatisfied don’t see the system map as a reward at all. It’s not the point. The point of explanation is activity (not the credits or the tags) that the system map enables.
I appreciate it’s just as hard to perceive there is anything beyond the system map just as it is to perceive the system map as having a non zero intrinsic reward.
Edit: this line of thinking is dumb. If we could just make it like how Ziggy keeps suggesting everyone for and against just pull our heads out and get on with the game
CMDR Karrde Sun Thats the thing, im not interested in even trying with the FSS. I played alot of cs back in the day and all i see is endlessly zooming down an AWP scope. Its that exact same motion, zoom in / zoom out. I dont find any other part of elite remotely interesting but i accepted that and went exploring. Sometimes i used to honk and just sit for 10 minutes looking over the system map, as much time as it took to FSS i was spending anyway. That game has been completely removed. It was only worth hanging around this long cause i dont know of any other game with anything like a realistic galaxy but i get the impression the devs see little value in that anyway. This is the era of not flying your ship. People who whined about flying should have been ignored, not those who were engaged with the game but i suspect that the appeal to a wider younger audience is all about milking the cash cow a little harder. Adapt or leave... i have no intention of even trying to adapt to something that is a chore, its just there and in the way of my enjoyment.To me the fact that they removed the old honk just says they are bad at the job of being developers as they cut off all of us who enjoyed it.
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WRT the changes planned for the 3.x updates, FD made it clear that QOL rather than content or new functionality was going to be the focus thus claiming "none of it was supposed to be coming" is at least a bit false if not totally false. I would agree however, that some of so called "QOL improvements" seem more like a retrograde step for various reasons - some implementation related, others because of bugs.
The introduction of the "Advanced Docking Computer" (which adds long overdue undocking autopilot functionality over the pre-existing docking computer) and the super cruise autopilot just give more weight to the justification that the proposed optional module (SMC) that would reintroduce gameplay options that were lost when FD revised the exploration mechanics at 3.3.
I have only occasionally added a Docking Computer to specific ship builds and when I have it has always amazed me that undocking was not also automated - the only reason for adding the docking computer (or advanced docking computer) to a given ship is to avoid the issues caused by a lack of queue order indications at Coriolis/Orbis/Asteroid stations and the corresponding apparent queue jumping of NPCs. As I see it, there are other things FD could have done to improve things for those that (would?) prefer to dock/undock manually from Coriolis/Orbis/Asteroid bases such as give a true indication of the CMDRs position in the docking/undocking queue but they did not. shrug
As for bugs, unfortunately they are inevitable but some of them are inexcusable - I believe FD were supposed to have resolved the FSS rendering issues in VR but they have STILL not fixed that (at least based on my experience - in VR, you still can not see the FSS blobs).
I get that some complained about the time required in SC for exploration of a system but at least some of us did not find it a big issue at all and may have even enjoyed the journeys or found the time involved justifiable. If there were a way for FD to re-enable the super-cruise driven near-body scan exploration gameplay in unexplored systems without at least partial population of the topological system map (c/f what is currently already done as of 3.3 for reported bodies in explored/partially-explored systems) then some of the drive for the proposed module would probably go away. However, enabling that gameplay by allowing for optional population of the map is probably the most obvious path of least resistance, especially given the FSS is still (at least a little) buggy.
rlsg seen that post complaining about how some ships landing gear clips thru the cockpit? I think its in there i saw the post that showed the anacondas guns clip thru the cargo hatch, a bug thats been in game sinse beta. That really just said it all for me, they have no intention of trying to make this game "perfect" no passion for it. Its a shame but thats how it is, i sympathise with those people who wish for the game to be handed to a different developer but its obviously not going to happen.
Edit: yeah im sorry if im being depressing. If you still enjoy the game dont let me put you off.
Edit: yeah im sorry if im being depressing. If you still enjoy the game dont let me put you off.
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FD wanted to do good. They knew the problem. Imagine being the first to have to discover a body at Hutton Orbital's distance. So the FSS is an answer. However in doing so they never thought that adding time requirement to unveil the map is quite upsetting and in certain cases game breaking to many players.
Don't get me wrong but it seems like FD wanted to appeal more to the player whose only goal of exploration was tagging ELWs and getting quick credits. Players who used the map as a tool to recognise what types of bodies are in the system, in what configurations were not left out but forced to undergo a gameplay element they are simply not interested in. One that, ironically, adds some time over what they were doing. So in removing time requirement from SC-ing to bodies they added it into discovering the map.
Map which was crucial for certain players to even see if they want to engage in exploration or not. Some of the players even went in their playstyle so far as to purposefuly leave the system they were not interested in for others to find. Now they can't really do that. You HAVE to eave Your mark if You want to see what's in the system. And in wanting to find an extraordinary system in 400 billions of randomly generated star systems which already took a long time now it takes even more.
As for landing gear clipping - never witnessed/noted it and I do have and have flown most ships (not got the Krait Phantom yet but that is the only one I believe I have not yet flown in the released game).
Overall, any discussion about FD wanting or not wanting to make the game perfect is ultimately moot in the precise context of this thread. While I may or may not personally disagree with some of the recent (past 12-18 months) implementation decisions, the generalities of those decisions are also moot. The only topic that truely matters in the context of this thread is the proposal itself - everything else is just spam/noise.
But its space!!! And if it was too much effort for the first player maybe the next one wanted it more, enough to do that flight no matter how bad. What was the point of going to the trouble of constructing a 1:1 scale galaxy if they were going to decide its too big? Letting people off from the travel time is for want of a better term a U turn on what this game was all about. Could have just made the ships go faster if it was really such a huge issue, extra engine booster module, whatever. But no...
Iv been accused of liking a conspiricy theory but damn its suspicious how this all turned out. Like some awful troll sat down and worked out how to ruin exploration and then fed it to them as feedback and they lapped it up.
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True - the main complaint about the topological system map from some quarters was that it unveiled too much information allowing for cherry picking exploration to persist but ironically enough the introduction of the FSS made that arguably worse in that particular regard thus that particular line of counter-argument is at least partly moot (the FSS already favours cherry picking exploration). That leaves us really with the topological map being a tool for other legacy approaches to exploration that are no longer properly supported as of 3.3.
Space is big, but I would hazard a guess that a lot of people would like to know they are going there for a reason, to experience that bigness. Space is still big, and it seems you are talking about tags. The mapped tag should be considered the most important one, and to do that you have to fly there. If you refuse to believe the mapped tag is more important then the discovered tag, just to prove your point, then the issue is not with the game, bit with yourself.But its space!!! And if it was too much effort for the first player maybe the next one wanted it more, enough to do that flight no matter how bad. What was the point of going to the trouble of constructing a 1:1 scale galaxy if they were going to decide its too big? Letting people off from the travel time is for want of a better term a U turn on what this game was all about. Could have just made the ships go faster if it was really such a huge issue, extra engine booster module, whatever. But no...
That's because its just ridiculous. There are plenty of explorers that like the new mechanics very much. Probably far more then the exolorers that don't.
Max Factor I include putting another station near the core in that aswell
I am not in favour of the station at the core either, but many explorers obviously were. Each to their own.Max Factor I include putting another station near the core in that aswell
I'd like to be able to use Windows XP and Windows 10 on the same machine without a boot loader.
Thats a bit too gracious i think. Your 50 pages is truth about page 550 to 600 on this topic at a conservative estimate. During pages 1-500, one of things that was apparent was the fss itself does have to change one bit (literally) from what it is now to make the majority of people happy. The only slide was in how its integrated into the gameplay and the system data we see.
If anything its more tunnel vision, or the first pass implementation with zero flexibility to even make minor adjustments for whatever reason.
Everyone who has issue, except for maybe burke, does not want to remove the current fss from anyone else, or change frontiers intention for what you do when you're inside it (even though it sucks.. the early stages of grief were passed during beta).
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