An elegant suggestion to Transferring money & ships between players

[Misty_Dark]

I worked hard for my credits, but yet I'm still not allowed to just give it away directly.


I guess hard work alone is not justification to be unwillingly stingy due to lack of QoL

I know you have been posting in the now closed thread "The possibility to transfer money between players", so you should now be very familiar with the reasons why this is a bad thing. Why do you not use the search function and look up any of the older threads regarding this?



I do not mind the the option as such, but what I do mind, is all the extra crap that comes along with such options. And until you or any of the others who keep suggesting this, can come up with a plausible working solution that will stop Gold Sellers, this is going to be a terrible idea, that time after time, have been proven to be detrimental to games that have this kind of options.

 

[Havvk]

Why do you not use the search function and look up any of the older threads regarding this?

Such a question is only valid if I'm spamming posting up numerous threads of my own about this, which I am not. I decided to search for any existing threads that weren't closed in hopes to keep this idea alive

 

[Misty_Dark]

Such a question is only valid if I'm spamming posting up numerous threads of my own about this, which I am not. I decided to search for any existing threads that weren't closed in hopes to keep this idea alive

and yet, here you are, still pursuing this, without actually coming up with anything new, that hasn't been covered in those other threads. I do get that you want this, but you appears very unwilling to acknowledge all the bad stuff such suggestions is going to bring along with it.

 

[Havvk]

and yet, here you are, still pursuing this, without actually coming up with anything new, that hasn't been covered in those other threads. I do get that you want this, but you appears very unwilling to acknowledge all the bad stuff such suggestions is going to bring along with it.

Don't expect me to be the only one to come up with a solution to prevent gold sellers while having such a mechanic implemented. Isn't that what discussions are for? I've already seen a few good ideas on how to stop those bots and still keep credit trading. But alas, I don't know if they're overlooked in the circle-jerking against such a concept, or if they're just being willfully ignored for the same aforementioned reasons.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

Unfortunately, I have to say no to in game trading. And not just because of gold mining, but because its in the first tentative steps in Elite Dangerous do you learn the basic skills. Loses are minimized as everything is cheap, and death is just a mild annoyance.. Working towards your first viper/cobra/vulture and then FDL or Krait feels like a massive achievement.. I remember working hard to get from my vulture to my first FDL, and worrying that I would not be able to afford the class 4 PA with it.. I remember how much that Vulture taught me about combat, ship tactics, thruster control and general flying.

If I had someone just give me money, I would have thought AWESOME.. I can get whatever I want now.. but I would have missed those steps.. I would have jumped straight into an FDL and have no idea how to fly it properly.. I would then have brought an Anaconda, and discovered I cant fly that properly either, blame the game and moved on.

Just like we often see here in the forums when new commanders have made huge amounts of money in short periods of time due to the latest gold rush, find themselves in an Anaconda in a few weeks, then complaining that it sucks, or the AI is too hard, or the game is too hard... They have missed out on those formative steps, to build their skills and develop their technique.

The simple fact is this.. If I had not spent months working from my Vulture to my first FDL, its very doubtful I would have created a youtube channel. What I learned during that period of earning credits through bounty hunting is the basis of what I do now.

Yes, its more convenient to be able to share our credits with new commanders, but really.. are we doing them a favor by doing so? As much as they may want those credits, I think in the long term, we are actually hurting their appreciation of the game through missing out on the core experience of progression and learning.

But hey, thats just me.

thats a very insightful statement. One I am inclined to agree with as I can see how the "gold rushes" have been runing the expirence for new players. TBH i think that could have been mitigated if Frontier didnt remove pilot rank mission locking.

 

[Guest 161958]

No. Play the game without looking for shortcuts.

 

[Misty_Dark]

Don't expect me to be the only one to come up with a solution to prevent gold sellers while having such a mechanic implemented. Isn't that what discussions are for? I've already seen a few good ideas on how to stop those bots and still keep credit trading. But alas, I don't know if they're overlooked in the circle-jerking against such a concept, or if they're just being willfully ignored for the same aforementioned reasons.

What are these "good ideas"? There is a reason why they turn out to be not such good ideas after all. Try to play devils advocate on your these things... can you not poke holes in those then?

 

[Captain Willard]

And never use the lame QOL line. That makes me want to throw up almost as bad as the breaks my immersion crap excuse.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

No. Play the game without looking for shortcuts.

not looking for shortcuts. you would realize that if you had actualy read anything.
Maybe you should go back to learning how to actually fly your T9 instead of blaming the devs for not nerfing a particular ship.
Or accusing people of taking shortcuts.

What are these "good ideas"? There is a reason why they turn out to be not such good ideas after all. Try to play devils advocate on your these things... can you not poke holes in those then?

I know this quote is at Havvk and not at me.
But to be fair alot of games employ new account restrictions to help deter gold selling bots from entering the game and make it less attractive such as the solution I suggested in my OP.
But you are correct in that there really is no foolproof method to completely deterring gold sellers when there is any player-controlled trade to speak of.

The idea I proposed, as lestat pointed out, still leaves room for gold sellers to be attracted to the game as opposed to the method frontier has currently employed which would be the absence of any "direct" player to player credit or item trade aside from cargo and limpets.
Alas the games I have played while they are mostly free of gold sellers occasionally have a gold seller that comes by and advertises but those occurrences are usually extremely few and far between, which leads me to believe that early account restrictions are an effective method.
And if I am being argumentative I am inclined to believe that a measly 100,000 cr per 24 hours it not enough for a gold seller to worry about considering the credit margins a player makes from missions anyways.
Though potentially the values rated at master can arguably be a problem depending on how fast or slow a player is in getting to that point.
I guess it is difficult to both employ direct credit trade and make a game tasteless for "gold sellers"

However I do belive that frontier should also reinstate the Pilot's Rank Mission locking so they dont have to keep worrying about the gold rushes as mentioned by vindicator Jones. The whole reason mission nerfs are happening in response to gold rushes is because there are no restrictions on missions anymore in regards to pilot ranks.
I honestly belive that the remove of Mission Rank restrictions was the worst possible move for the game's mission economy, and should instead have allowed adjusted mission rank unlocks in regards to local reputation with a margine of no more than 2 pilots ranks above the player's current rank.

 

[Guest 161958]

Example:

Pilot's Tier 1: Harmless / Penniless / Aimless : Maximum trade value 100,000 Credits (the player can not send or receive any ship or credits greater than this value with in a 24 hour period)
Pilot's Tier 2: Mostly Harmless / Mostly Penniless / Mostly Aimless : Maximum trade value 500,000 credits. (the player may recive this value of credits or a viper MK4 or other ship that costs within this value within a 24 hour period)
Pilot's Tier 3: Novice/ Peddler / Scout : Maximum Trade Value 1,000,000 Credits (24 hour period restriction trade is still in place)
Pilot's Tier 4: Competent / Dealer / Surveyor : Maximum Trade Value 5,000,000 Credits (24 hour period trade restriction is still in place)
Pilot's Tier 5: Expert / Merchant / Trailblazer : Maximum Trade Value 10,000,000 Credits (1 hour period trade restriction)
Pilot's Tier 6: Master / Broker / Pathfinder : Maximum Trade Value 50,000,000 Credits (1 hour period Trade restriction)
Pilot's Tier 7: Dangerous / Entrepreneur / Ranger : (No Trade Restriction)
Pilot's Tier 8: Deadly / Tycoon / Pioneer : (No Trade Restriction)
Pilot's Tier 9: Elite : (No Trade Restriction)

not looking for shortcuts. you would realize that if you had actualy read anything.
Maybe you should go back to learning how to actually fly your T9 instead of blaming the devs for not nerfing a particular ship.
Or accusing people of taking shortcuts.

I start to question your ability to understand written text. Please read the following reply carefully.
In the thread you mentioned, I blamed players like you who want to ruin the game with these cheap proposals, not the devs themselves.

With these stupid QOL reasons you push your agenda of cheapening the game by making it easier.
And the past showed that many times the devs were forced to make these changes or people would stop playing.

But still your bad habit of attacking who replies to you with sound reason lingers I see.

The proposal you made is not a shortcut to riches? How can you say no with a straight face.

Reaching these pilot ranks will be easy because people will whine "it takes forever to advance a tier". FD will make it easier and you will have all ships just by raising a "pilot tier".

A 400t hull OP conda after a fraction of the time you need now (already GODDAMN easy because of the whining/proposals of players like you).

And look, what else? NO RESTRICTION after tier 7. You have no idea on how to design a game.

Obstacles are there to make it challenging. You take the challenge out of it and next you go on the forums whining there is nothing to do.

also ELITE DANGEROUS IS NOT AN MMO. UNDERSTOOD?

Listen, the game throws money at you, go play the game instead of these gold selling proposals.

And stop making me laugh!

 

[varonica]

But alas, I don't know if they're overlooked in the circle-jerking against such a concept,

That's the way to get people on your side, accuse them of circle jerking, surely the only one doing that is yourself pushing it ovber and over again without coming up with the slightest wrokable suggestion to implement it and just reposting endless other peoples suggestions that have already been soundly refuted?

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

I start to question your ability to understand written text. Please read the following reply carefully.
In the thread you mentioned, I blamed players like you who want to ruin the game with these cheap proposals, not the devs themselves.

With these stupid QOL reasons you push your agenda of cheapening the game by making it easier.
And the past showed that many times the devs were forced to make these changes or people would stop playing.

But still your bad habit of attacking who replies to you with sound reason lingers I see.

The proposal you made is not a shortcut to riches? How can you say no with a straight face.

Reaching these pilot ranks will be easy because people will whine "it takes forever to advance a tier". FD will make it easier and you will have all ships just by raising a "pilot tier".

A 400t hull OP conda after a fraction of the time you need now (already GODDAMN easy because of the whining/proposals of players like you).

And look, what else? NO RESTRICTION after tier 7. You have no idea on how to design a game.

Obstacles are there to make it challenging. You take the challenge out of it and next you go on the forums whining there is nothing to do.

also ELITE DANGEROUS IS NOT AN MMO. UNDERSTOOD?

Listen, the game throws money at you, go play the game instead of these gold selling proposals.

And stop making me laugh!

now you are just being inflammatory and poking holes where there are none to be poked.
I have been discussing this respectfully with the other users that have responded to the thread, listening to their input, and you seem insistent on only defamation.
On top of that your hostility towards me seems derivative of my ship choice as an anaconda when me and other users have stated that not only is the anaconda balanced as it is but both ships smaller and larger than it can quite easily best it.

The list I proposed is infact not a fast track to riches because you still have to unlock the pilots rank tier to be able to accept the credits. meaning that a new player can only receive 100,000 CR in direct trade from an elite player.
Additionally by the time someone is master ranked they likely have a few hundred million to their name already.
By the time someone is dangerous they likely are in the billions and have spent hundreds of hours in the game in which there is no reason to gate them.
Additionally I have listend to both letsat and vindicator jones as to why implementing direct trade even with such restrictions might not be the best idea.
Which you would know if you had actually read anything.

Again I tell you that you need to actually learn about the game before making wild and presumptuous statements like "players blackmailing Frontier" according to your other thread.
Stop wasting the time of the users that actually know a thing or two about elite.

 

[Guest 161958]

now you are just being inflammatory and poking holes where there are none to be poked.

What about a constructive reply to my points against your proposal?

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

What about a constructive reply to my points against your proposal?

you recived one. moving on.

That's the way to get people on your side, accuse them of circle jerking, surely the only one doing that is yourself pushing it ovber and over again without coming up with the slightest wrokable suggestion to implement it and just reposting endless other peoples suggestions that have already been soundly refuted?

It seems most users cant be unbiased these days. and would prefer to make wild accusations.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Thing is we already have a way to trade good credits. You wing up to find a location and drop cargo trade then go back to the station and sell it.

Yos still can't sell ships or modules, not to mention that trading commodities like that is super tedious and needs a big cargo ship.

And that how it should be. Trading Credit should not be easy.

Why not?

Unfortunately, I have to say no to in game trading. And not just because of gold mining, but because its in the first tentative steps in Elite Dangerous do you learn the basic skills. Loses are minimized as everything is cheap, and death is just a mild annoyance.. Working towards your first viper/cobra/vulture and then FDL or Krait feels like a massive achievement.. I remember working hard to get from my vulture to my first FDL, and worrying that I would not be able to afford the class 4 PA with it.. I remember how much that Vulture taught me about combat, ship tactics, thruster control and general flying.

If I had someone just give me money, I would have thought AWESOME.. I can get whatever I want now.. but I would have missed those steps.. I would have jumped straight into an FDL and have no idea how to fly it properly.. I would then have brought an Anaconda, and discovered I cant fly that properly either, blame the game and moved on.

Just like we often see here in the forums when new commanders have made huge amounts of money in short periods of time due to the latest gold rush, find themselves in an Anaconda in a few weeks, then complaining that it sucks, or the AI is too hard, or the game is too hard... They have missed out on those formative steps, to build their skills and develop their technique.

The simple fact is this.. If I had not spent months working from my Vulture to my first FDL, its very doubtful I would have created a youtube channel. What I learned during that period of earning credits through bounty hunting is the basis of what I do now.

Yes, its more convenient to be able to share our credits with new commanders, but really.. are we doing them a favor by doing so? As much as they may want those credits, I think in the long term, we are actually hurting their appreciation of the game through missing out on the core experience of progression and learning.

But hey, thats just me.

Hence, the rank limitations imposed by the OP.

 

[Guest 161958]

you recived one. moving

not satisfying at all. Please tell me if you have a solution to the problematic consequences of your proposal.

even the post edit you made does not solve these and are full of personal accusations.

you are just putting a different limitation (pilot ranking) that people will ask to be made faster to reach and easier. And there will be veterans with billions just giving it to friends.

gating is needed to keep money worth something. With your proposal you would make big chunks of the game worthless and further screwing the already weird economy.


I am not hostile against you, I am hostile against I want it all and easier proposals that cheapen the game. Put aside the personal hate and think. There is a reason Fd did not allow it from the beginning.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

not satisfying at all. Please tell me if you have a solution to the problematic consequences of your proposal.

even the post edit you made does not solve these and are full of personal accusations.

you are just putting a different limitation (pilot ranking) that people will ask to be made faster to reach and easier. And there will be veterans with billions just giving it to friends.

gating is needed to keep money worth something. With your proposal you would make big chunks of the game worthless and further screwing the already weird economy.


I am not hostile against you, I am hostile against I want it all and easier proposals that cheapen the game. Put aside the personal hate and think. There is a reason Fd did not allow it from the beginning.

And you dont think between putting gates on trade restrictions and saying that frontier shouldnt have removed mission rank locking is gating instead of just a fasttrack?

Im not entertaining your obviously inflammatory responses anymore, you fail to provide anything constructive unlike the other users responding to this thread.

 

[Lestat]

Yos still can't sell ships or modules,

Thing is. The gold seller Ad could look like this. Elite Dangerous With the username if available, Ship of your choice up to an Anaconda and Common Modules in Module space $150.00. Which give Gold Sellers money they want with unskilled players then that Lazy player who doesn't care about gameplay then get on the forums Whining I lost my Brand new Anaconda because I don't know what I did wrong I have only been playing for a few hours. I quit this game. So your idea is not so great Flowey

not to mention that trading commodities like that is super tedious and needs a big cargo ship.

Which forces new players to learn some of the basic of how to play instead of Pay to win. I rather have a New player join a wing with me and learn some skills ask the questions on what to do and buy another low-cost ship. So if they died it not a major issue.

Why not?

Here an idea why not read the other topics about Payed to win and how they fail and you get your answer.

Hence, the rank limitations imposed by the OP.

I already pointed out one flaw in the Ops post. Please go back and read it.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

Yos still can't sell ships or modules, not to mention that trading commodities like that is super tedious and needs a big cargo ship.



Why not?



Hence, the rank limitations imposed by the OP.

Thing is. The gold seller Ad could look like this. Elite Dangerous With the username if available, Ship of your choice up to an Anaconda and Common Modules in Module space $150.00. Which give Gold Sellers money they want with unskilled players then that Lazy player who doesn't care about gameplay then get on the forums Whining I lost my Brand new Anaconda because I don't know what I did wrong I have only been playing for a few hours. I quit this game. So your idea is not so great Flowey


Which forces new players to learn some of the basic of how to play instead of Pay to win. I rather have a New player join a wing with me and learn some skills ask the questions on what to do and buy another low-cost ship. So if they died it not a major issue.

Here an idea why not read the other topics about Payed to win and how they fail and you get your answer.

I already pointed out one flaw in the Ops post. Please go back and read it.

While I would still like to believe that the restrictions would be enough, lestat and vindicator jones have a point in new players needing to learn how to play the game. I have seen the handfull of players during gold rushes that are left with no clue what to do.

I guess now I am left wondering if there is a way that this could be modified more to still be restrictive and allow trade so players still learn the game through missions and playing the content and such. (aside from just cargo trading of course)

I dont believe only being able to recive 100,000cr is (completely) detrimental early on considering the margins missions eventually give, but I also agree that when new players have it easy that they tend to just whine about the content being too hard only because they have no idea what to do.

There are master ranks that have hundreds of millions of credits and yet there could be master ranks that do not as of yet have 50 million to their name, which may attract gold sellers, however I am also inclined to belive that the master tanks that are under the 50 million mark are few.

I think that it would probably be beneficial to re-instate pilot's rank mission locking to the game as well. to some degree.

 

[Zeeman]

What would be the use case for this?


Why give away a Viper Mk IV? some light bounty hunting in a Resource extraction site should pretty fast let your new friend earn enough cash to buy that ship...

A slightly longer thing would be todo the same in multicrew.


And the we have all the wing missions.

Use case would be, for me, a second account where grinding all the engineers is going to be a long painful process...

But then, some will ask "Well, then.... Why start a new account if not to start from scratch?", and I'd say, that that, is a good question.

Z...