Define multi chaffed. Was it continuous, no interruptions? Multiple chaff units on one ship?
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Another request to balance chaff units
- Thread starter NeilF
- Start date
Define multi chaffed. Was it continuous, no interruptions? Multiple chaff units on one ship?
Multiple chaff units on one ship, used in a chain.
How long will they do that? depends, we shoot them/ram them enough they change tactics.
Normally they get 2 or 3 before they change tactics.
Amazing how people think they have seen everything and don't accept that other people have seen something they have not.
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nope none given here. It seems you are one of the biggest whiners on the forums. Just play the game and try to have fun. Chaff is fine. SCBs were fine and prob are ok now. I like attacking
(just remembered I cant call this post what I want so...) crap post is crap.
nope none given here. It seems you are one of the biggest whiners on the forums. Just play the game and try to have fun. Chaff is fine. SCBs were fine and prob are ok now. I like attacking
It may well be you're entirely spot on, and the balance is fine, and I (& others) are missing something. Why not put a case forwards with points? It's far more affective than the approach you've demonstrated.
In short, if all you can do is bring personal jibes to a discussion, maybe it's best you don't participate (please)?
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As I said, I regularly see Asps with 3 chaff equipped and using them in sequence. I honestly couldn't tell you if they have more equipped or not, because they are usually dead by the time the 3rd one ends... I use gimballed pulses on my FAS and Vulture..
Not really sure why you think that pointing out that your problem with chaff indicates a lack of ability/knowledge constitutes an insult, but as you're clearly a little sensitive, I'll take your advise and "resist" replying to you in future. =)
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Well, can you video one of these Asps, keeping your gimbals at bay for a minute or so, as I'd love to see it... It would be a first for me (& some others from what I can gather)?
I didn't suggest you shouldn't post or reply to me. I suggested you should simply attempt not to make needless "personal" jibes (insults)? And yet again to still have a little dig? It's just not necessary. Please resist.
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I'm still keen to see NPCs spamming chaff for minutes on end... Please do give us a video if you can.
I still believe NPCs would not be allowed to behave in that way because the wonky mechanic would frustrate too many players. So I'd love to be proved wrong!
I have tried since to nab a video of it, but seemingly my potato spits its dummy when I try to run Fraps and ED at the same time, particularly in Rez or CZ where there's lots of fire and it gets stuttery without Fraps. Can you suggest some video software that's less demanding maybe?
Fraps is a software capture so is intensive.
Hardware capture:-
AMD = Gaming Evolved (Raptr)
NVidia = Shadowplay
...assuming your gfx card if fairly upto date?
Again, just so we don't waste time etc... We're talking about NPC "chain-smoking" here
ie: Using chaff after chaff like a CMDR would so your gimbals/turrets cannot lock onto them for minute(s) on end...Fraps is a software capture so is intensive.
Hardware capture:-
AMD = Gaming Evolved (Raptr)
NVidia = Shadowplay
...assuming your gfx card if fairly upto date?
Again, just so we don't waste time etc... We're talking about NPC "chain-smoking" here
I'm on integrated graphics, and i5 2.6ghz processor. I've had this issue with other games too. All is fine until I turn on Fraps, then big drop in FPS and game goes all jittery. It doesn't seem to like Voice Attack either.
They don't ever survive for "minutes on end", as I can hit them even with chaff, but I've seen NPCs with 2-3 chaff loaded.
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Oh dear God - You're into iPhone recordings of your screen territory then
I'm certain we're at cross purposes here though so I hate to think of you battling through this. Tell you what, time (roughly) how long your gimbals are continuously unlocked from an NPC daisy chaining chaff, and I'll believe you.
ie: You're shooting with a gimbal lock, chaff starts........... how long until your gimbals regain a lock again?
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Oh dear God - You're into iPhone recordings of your screen territory then
I'm certain we're at cross purposes here though so I hate to think of you battling through this. Tell you what, time (roughly) how long your gimbals are continuously unlocked from an NPC daisy chaining chaff, and I'll believe you.
ie: You're shooting with a gimbal lock, chaff starts........... how long until your gimbals regain a lock again?
GO read main, there are all sorts of posts about NPCs cheating and chain chaffing, here is one:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=206996&highlight=chaff
So either one or the other of you lot is wrong.
Probably both of you. Fix it for one, the other will whine. So why should Frontier bother?
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A couple of nights back I was chasing an NPC FDS... He chaffed like crazy... I have to admin I thought "That's nice - no shield boosters...."...."Chaff all you want, mate. These are fixed lasers..." I said to his rapidly expanding ball of debris.....
Trouble with fixed weapons is it's a to hit eagles and the like. Mind you, if you do manage it, they tend to really suffer for it.
Trouble with fixed weapons is it's a
to hit eagles and the like. Mind you, if you do manage it, they tend to really suffer for it.Oh dear God - You're into iPhone recordings of your screen territory then
I'm certain we're at cross purposes here though so I hate to think of you battling through this. Tell you what, time (roughly) how long your gimbals are continuously unlocked from an NPC daisy chaining chaff, and I'll believe you.
ie: You're shooting with a gimbal lock, chaff starts........... how long until your gimbals regain a lock again?
I've never actually time it, but I can give you the tools to make an educated guess... I'm flying either a Vulture or an FAS, using gimballed pulse lasers in all hardpoints on both ships.... in both ships, the NPC explodes before his chaff stops. How many seconds does it take 2 large pulse lasers to eat the shields and hulls of an NPC Asp?
On the plus side, I'm working on convincing the missus that a new PC is needed... and she won't know the difference between a decent gaming rig and a normal PC except the price.
"But why is it so expensive?"
"Future-proofing, dear...." =)
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A couple of nights back I was chasing an NPC FDS... He chaffed like crazy... I have to admin I thought "That's nice - no shield boosters...."...."Chaff all you want, mate. These are fixed lasers..." I said to his rapidly expanding ball of debris.....
Trouble with fixed weapons is it's a
Only if you try to turn fight them... I find that if you just reverse boost, the Artificial Unintelligence flies right in front of your cannons, giving you plenty of chances to hit them.... your way is more fun though.
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That's all a bit vague don't you think?
Let's me put it my way, in my combat Python, which I typically use for farming RES or CZ. I use all gimbals and turrets. I never have to unlock NPCs. If they fire chaff, it's simply not worth my time unlocking them, because it's for such a short time, I may as well use the time to build up WEB, ready for when their chaff stops in 10-20 seconds or so.
I certainly am never faced with extended periods of unlock in the realms of a minute+ for example which a CMDR could dish out at me. ie: Leaving me no choice but to unlock to fight back.
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I don't think it's vague at all... it certainly gives a ballpark. The problem is, that if I stop firing at them, they stop chaffing. If I keep firing at them, they die. I suppose, I could just keep a lock on them, and see how long they do it for.
Was in the CG conflict zone today, and didn't see a single one do it, but was in a Crime Sweep the other day, trying to get a video, and there was heaps of them at it. Maybe every other Asp. Although, I think that may be a coincidence, as there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference in the mechanics of a CZ, and Crime Sweep, but will try get a solid time when I get back to the doing the Crime Sweep... I have a short attention span for "goals" in this game though, so that may be a few days before I get to it.
Thanks... Is it really only 5 seconds? Seems longer!
Try keeping them locked then... And see if there's ever an extended period of time while they chaff. I doubt it will ever be a significant time such that's it real worry within combat. Even against NPC Anaconda's it's never long enough for me to even bother unlocking.
And to reiterate, I've never seen an NPC daisy chaining chaff such that I've lost a lock akin to what a CMDR will do. ie: More than a minute. I suspect it's be 5-10 seconds at most maybe? I wish they would (spam for a minute+)! The outcry would be huge amongst a huge lump of the community such that it might finally get some attention.
Meanwhile - and let's not lose focus on the balancing issue in question - CMDRs can raise their chaff shields for minute(s)...
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i've been watching this thread for a bit and have some questions and comments. Would also like to state that I don't currently PVP, and use open play only a little.
Regarding NPC Daisy changing chaff, haven't seen it happen yet (current combat rank, 'deadly' from solo play kills only), but have seen them chaff a lot. vultures seem to chaff the most, but there is always space in between, don't know if this is different in player groups Vs npc.
I see shield cells are being changed to give more heat on use, I had not used them before I heard as I didn't feel the need in solo play, but wondered why there was a change, I guess its is for PvP (not against PvP players). I'm sure it did need balancing out, but please remember, the people that pointed out this problem got all the advantages of using them 'the easy way' to get their ships and cash and now they are PvP mainly, they don't like them anymore.
Now regarding chaff. Chaff is a defence, an anti-weapon with is limited ammo. If your not willing to fight it out till they run out of chaff, because it just to boring then don't (harsh, but you cant force people to play your way). You don't have to fight with that style of player . This is where a few questions about your motives (NeilF) made me think, and please don't take these questions as a personal attack, im just wanting to know.
1. Are you interdicting random people?
2.Do you feel that chaff if giving too much advantage to smaller ships (big ships limited manoeuvrability)
3. Are you PvPing with friends and/or structured PVP groups? If your not in open play and with people you know, you can agree on rules before a PVP
I feel chaff is a very important tool for players that don't want to fight. like Traders and explorers, and weapons are not an options for most of them. The chaff is their main weapon. Some people may try to fight back with a ship that is out mach using chaff, or maybe just hang around and chaff, shoot a little to teach the interdictor a lesson buy costing them cash in repairs and time (its a legitimate yet irritating style).
My conclusion is, chaff is not a problem as you can choose who your fight with. If enough people want to fight with limited or no chaff, form a private group (unless you just want to swat random players that don't want to fight)
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Also wondering about the problem with turrets and chaff, I must be missing something here. I fly a federal assault ship (so much better than the python and repair cost...) with 2x turret beams and i'm so used to unlocking the target when a NPC chaffs, I forget to lock on again and continue as if I had fixed weapons
Regarding NPC Daisy changing chaff, haven't seen it happen yet (current combat rank, 'deadly' from solo play kills only), but have seen them chaff a lot. vultures seem to chaff the most, but there is always space in between, don't know if this is different in player groups Vs npc.
I see shield cells are being changed to give more heat on use, I had not used them before I heard as I didn't feel the need in solo play, but wondered why there was a change, I guess its is for PvP (not against PvP players). I'm sure it did need balancing out, but please remember, the people that pointed out this problem got all the advantages of using them 'the easy way' to get their ships and cash and now they are PvP mainly, they don't like them anymore.
Now regarding chaff. Chaff is a defence, an anti-weapon with is limited ammo. If your not willing to fight it out till they run out of chaff, because it just to boring then don't (harsh, but you cant force people to play your way). You don't have to fight with that style of player . This is where a few questions about your motives (NeilF) made me think, and please don't take these questions as a personal attack, im just wanting to know.
1. Are you interdicting random people?
2.Do you feel that chaff if giving too much advantage to smaller ships (big ships limited manoeuvrability)
3. Are you PvPing with friends and/or structured PVP groups? If your not in open play and with people you know, you can agree on rules before a PVP
I feel chaff is a very important tool for players that don't want to fight. like Traders and explorers, and weapons are not an options for most of them. The chaff is their main weapon. Some people may try to fight back with a ship that is out mach using chaff, or maybe just hang around and chaff, shoot a little to teach the interdictor a lesson buy costing them cash in repairs and time (its a legitimate yet irritating style).
My conclusion is, chaff is not a problem as you can choose who your fight with. If enough people want to fight with limited or no chaff, form a private group (unless you just want to swat random players that don't want to fight)
Added:
Also wondering about the problem with turrets and chaff, I must be missing something here. I fly a federal assault ship (so much better than the python and repair cost...) with 2x turret beams and i'm so used to unlocking the target when a NPC chaffs, I forget to lock on again and continue as if I had fixed weapons
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Sooden,
The issue isn't with NPCs, it's purely a PvP one where double-chaff is easy to do & frustrating to fight against, in a broadly similar way to SCBs. Fighting against a ramming, chaff spamming opponent is pretty dull & you are forced into a fighting style that isn't really in keeping with the intended gameplay. It is however a successful tactic and in a random fight there are no rules except kill or be killed.
Essentially Neil (and I) believe chaff is too simple a mechanism & should have more consequences, currently apart from limited ammo there are none so it's a no-brainer to carry double chaff in open. The existing solution of course is to use fixed weapons & dogfight, which can be frustratingly difficult unless you use a dedicated PvP ship loadout, making it much harder to have the ship be useful for anything other than PvP fighting ie your CZ/RES kills will be reduced compared to using Gimbals, your cargo space is reduced by SCBs & armour, and your jump range is reduced by the extra weight. The aggressor is expecting the fight (they initiated it after all) and comes suitably equipped.
The PvP element of open makes the game more exciting and can be awesome, but the mechanics currently in place force a style of fighting that puts a PvE equipped ship at a major disadvantage.
I Co-op PvE in Open, and I generally run weaponless in a fast ship if I'm not planning on (PvE) combat. It shows anyone that scans my ship that I'm not a threat to them. If they interdict me anyway they know I will run.
The issue isn't with NPCs, it's purely a PvP one where double-chaff is easy to do & frustrating to fight against, in a broadly similar way to SCBs. Fighting against a ramming, chaff spamming opponent is pretty dull & you are forced into a fighting style that isn't really in keeping with the intended gameplay. It is however a successful tactic and in a random fight there are no rules except kill or be killed.
Essentially Neil (and I) believe chaff is too simple a mechanism & should have more consequences, currently apart from limited ammo there are none so it's a no-brainer to carry double chaff in open. The existing solution of course is to use fixed weapons & dogfight, which can be frustratingly difficult unless you use a dedicated PvP ship loadout, making it much harder to have the ship be useful for anything other than PvP fighting ie your CZ/RES kills will be reduced compared to using Gimbals, your cargo space is reduced by SCBs & armour, and your jump range is reduced by the extra weight. The aggressor is expecting the fight (they initiated it after all) and comes suitably equipped.
The PvP element of open makes the game more exciting and can be awesome, but the mechanics currently in place force a style of fighting that puts a PvE equipped ship at a major disadvantage.
I Co-op PvE in Open, and I generally run weaponless in a fast ship if I'm not planning on (PvE) combat. It shows anyone that scans my ship that I'm not a threat to them. If they interdict me anyway they know I will run.