Notice ARX FAQ

[EUS]

Well, I'm following along as best I can. As I understand it your objection is that you've had to pay to get the game on particular terms - and now the new update means others will get the same benefits without paying in the way you had to. If I've got that wrong please do put me right.

That wasn't me.

But you were asked if, having bought some jeans at a given price, you'd then go back and ask for a refund if someone else subsequently bought them at a lower price. You've replied that you would, and had, if you were within three days of the sale.

Yes, my own 3 day rule, simply to show that under that specific example, I have asked for, and received reimbursements.

With all that in mind - as I've said unless I've got it wrong and you wish to correct me - the obvious question seemed to be, how long has elapsed since you paid for the game?

I've owned the game since Dec '14, and never stated I wanted a refund due to Arx.
*Edit, fixed crazy embedding...

 

[Gortron]

Wait... Isn't there already a snowflake bobblehead? Or did I dream it? I do have some weird dreams, I admit.

I have a snowflake bobblehead. It was given free to LEP holders like me (near Christmas). Some people kicked off about that saying it was a dig... blah blah (on both sides). I think it was a coincidence and even if it wasn't I find it funny.

Elite is a computer game that is several years old now. Moaning about what was or what will be doesn't seem to have any affect on what FDEV do. That is surely obvious by now; yet there is this constant game of ping pong between people that think their opinion matters.

They are going to do what they are going to do and all that really makes any difference is if what they do increases or decreases revenue; Not people perpetually repeating the same arguments on the forums.

I'm not directing this at you personally, it is just that you are right

 

[Slàine Sìdh]

That wasn't me.

So it wasn't. No, you replied to the question Agony_Aunt asked someone else.

 

[Slàine Sìdh]

Not people perpetually repeating the same arguments on the forums.

Indeed. Totally futile.

So, should we get rid of Solo mode then, or what?

 

[Old Duck]

Ultimately, Frontier need to be careful how this is handled as it does have the potential to upset a lot of people...

I'm not upset. Well, I am upset, but not about this.

 

[Gortron]

Indeed. Totally futile.

So, should we get rid of Solo mode then, or what?

haha. Not happening

 

[Jack Schitt]

Do you also ask for a refund for the food you just ate in a restaurant, because you're not hungry anymore?

Since we're playing "bend the analogy", in the case of paint packs it's closer to being told that the only way to get a Coke in McDonalds is as part of a £5 meal most of which you don't want. Then, as you sit there drinking your Coke and watching your unwanted food congeal, someone else comes in and gets to buy the drink on its own because they're paying in euros. Sort of. Ish.

Yeah, ultimately none of this is going anywhere. I just thought the splitting of the packs into individual items was probably the most contentious part, because in some cases people will have been "forced" (by their own justification, not at gunpoint) to buy five things they might literally never use in order to get the one thing they wanted. Which will now be available on its own. It's a bit iffy, but then if FD are going to do the "everything costs 80% of an arx pack" trick across the store, separating everything into individual items will be more profitable and encourage sales to those folks who didn't buy the packs the first time. It's kind of a win-win, from a certain point of view. An Obi-Win-Win, to coin a phrase.

The rest of it is basically just the equivalent of a sale, or of a previously paid game going free-to-play. It feels like a bit of a kick, but you did get something for your money.

 

[Old Duck]

Elephant Butt Leather, man, EBL....

 

[Jaball]

Great, premium currency to obuscate the actual spending cost. Never again will you be able to buy exactly what you want for a set price - you'll have to spend more or come up short because of the way the packages are tiered. AᏚᏚhole accountants are at it again. ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I know this was sarcastic, but the next day, up to 3 days, actually, yes, I go back, show my receipt, and politely ask for the difference.
And I've never had a retailer refuse.
I don't know if it's related to good customer service, or local consumer protection laws, but there it is.

Not exactly sarcastic, actually serious. But ok, taking into account regional laws on returns, do you return it after that period has expired?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Great, premium currency to obuscate the actual spending cost. Never again will you be able to buy exactly what you want for a set price - you'll have to spend more or come up short because of the way the packages are tiered. AᏚᏚhole accountants are at it again. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Umm..... how do you come to this conclusion?

Current situation: Item in store for $5. Pay $5.

New situation: Item in store for 1000ARX. 1000ARX can be purchased for $5. Cost of item $5. However, you can also get ARX through gameplay, so you might not even pay $5 for the item.

 

[Valorin]

Umm..... how do you come to this conclusion?

Current situation: Item in store for $5. Pay $5.

New situation: Item in store for 1000ARX. 1000ARX can be purchased for $5. Cost of item $5. However, you can also get ARX through gameplay, so you might not even pay $5 for the item.

The idea is, that I see a product I want and buy it for a set price.
Most games offering micro transactions don't do that, mainly because setting up a fantasy currency makes money easier spent. You don't see how much exactly you spend because the price tag says "1000 Thingies" insteady of real life currency.

Concerning your new situation, I don't think it will be like that. It will most likely be more like:

"Item in store for 1000ARX. 600 ARX or 1200 ARX can be purchased for 2.50 or 5 Dollars."

That's how it is in most game shops. When purchasing something you always have a leftover which stays with your account. You always have to buy just a little more than you need. In the end you will buy another thing and perhaps even be happy that you still have a few Thingies left and you don't need to purchase that much this time. But that's the trick of course. It's a manipulation for marketing reasons and that's something that absolutely put me off in any game so far where that's the case.
I always held Frontier in high regards because they don't use these very obvious and greedy-grabby marketing strategies.

BUT all we know is, there will be packs. We don't know yet if it will actually be like I said. How is it done on consoles? Do you purchase the amount of Frontier Points you need or are there packs? And do you always have leftover or are the packs exactly the amount you need?

The free stuff is cool, since free stuff can't be a bad thing.

 

[Jaball]

Umm..... how do you come to this conclusion?

Because such tiers are the common model in every "premium" currency in every game out there? This is not done for your benefit, disabuse yourself of that notion.

you can also get ARX through gameplay

Please. Navy rank grind will be nothing compared to the time needed to accumulate any meaningful amount of said premium currency. It's there for the sake of that very argument above.

 

[Slàine Sìdh]

Umm..... how do you come to this conclusion?

Current situation: Item in store for $5. Pay $5.

New situation: Item in store for 1000ARX. 1000ARX can be purchased for $5. Cost of item $5. However, you can also get ARX through gameplay, so you might not even pay $5 for the item.

I think Jaball is comparing this to the mobile game market where premium currency is all-pervading, and where the currency is offered in packs that don't directly correspond to the item value, to maximise overspend.

You want an item that's tagged at 1000ARX - value £5 - but you can only buy ARX in packs of 750 or 1500. For example. So you have to spend £7 for the 1500 pack (or whatever the prices are) to buy the thing that's £5.

It's like those car parking machines UK local authorities maintain that say both "No change given" and "Overpayment accepted" - because it means the councils will collect a steady stream of extra cash from people who don't have the right change. And that mounts up.

Sure, you can earn ARX in-game as you can in mobile games, and as in mobile games you can presumably keep your ARX on account and spend them later anyway. But the point is they're getting more money than you wanted to give them at that time.

I'm not saying ED is automatically going to become as scammy as mobile games or local authority car parking. But I absolutely can understand Jaball's suspicion.

 

[Jaball]

to the mobile game market where premium currency is all-pervading, and where the currency is offered in packs that don't directly correspond to the item value, to maximise overspend.

Word. Only one thing, we are long past the mobile or even F2P (i like to call them "free to pay" games, makes more sense these days ;>) stage. These manipulation methods are now prevalent on the PC (Wargaming's entire line-up, Elder Scrolls Online and most flagship MMO's for that matter).

 

[Jack Schitt]

New situation: Item in store for 1000ARX. 1000ARX can be purchased for $5. Cost of item $5. However, you can also get ARX through gameplay, so you might not even pay $5 for the item.

I can pretty much guarantee it won't be like that though. As others have pointed out, the arx price will be slightly more or slightly less than the size of an arx pack, so you'll always have some left over (encouraging future spending because you're "already partway there"). These methods are tried and tested, and they work. There would be no point in FD pursuing this if there was going to be a straight 1:1 correlation between the old and new costs.

It's even possible that the effective price of a given cosmetic will be slightly less than it currently is, in raw arx-per-£/$/€ terms, making it look like a bargain. But it will be the pack thresholds that will get you over time. For a while I thought there was a small chance that FD might do things differently, and that their priority was indeed harmonising the payment system across platforms. But the second they confirmed that arx would only be available in packs, all other bets were off. There's only one reason you do that. They'll punt it as a convenience, but it's psychology.

To get really cynical for a moment, this may also be the reason gifting of arx won't be a thing. Gifting someone the value of an item won't be practical if the prices and pack thresholds don't align. And if you allowed gifting of arbitrary quantities of arx, players would organise outside of the store and arrange to trade and pool their spare arx, removing the psychological incentive of having those extra arx sitting there.

As for arx-through-gameplay, until we know the variables (gamplay requirements, arx-per-unit time, whether there are limits on maximum arx you can earn or maximum arx-per-unit-time you can accrue) that's not even a dangling carrot. It's just someone having used the word "carrot" and set everyone salivating like Pavlov's... erm... rabbits.

 

[amigacooke {macOS}]

Personally I'm in favour of games that give you a trickle of their premium currency and give you the chance to buy the premium currency for real cash. I get a lot of free games/features and all it takes is a bit of patience.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The idea is, that I see a product I want and buy it for a set price.
Most games offering micro transactions don't do that, mainly because setting up a fantasy currency makes money easier spent. You don't see how much exactly you spend because the price tag says "1000 Thingies" insteady of real life currency.

Concerning your new situation, I don't think it will be like that. It will most likely be more like:

"Item in store for 1000ARX. 600 ARX or 1200 ARX can be purchased for 2.50 or 5 Dollars."

That's how it is in most game shops. When purchasing something you always have a leftover which stays with your account. You always have to buy just a little more than you need. In the end you will buy another thing and perhaps even be happy that you still have a few Thingies left and you don't need to purchase that much this time. But that's the trick of course. It's a manipulation for marketing reasons and that's something that absolutely put me off in any game so far where that's the case.
I always held Frontier in high regards because they don't use these very obvious and greedy-grabby marketing strategies.

BUT all we know is, there will be packs. We don't know yet if it will actually be like I said. How is it done on consoles? Do you purchase the amount of Frontier Points you need or are there packs? And do you always have leftover or are the packs exactly the amount you need?

The free stuff is cool, since free stuff can't be a bad thing.

Umm.. ok, but its just basic maths to do the conversion and understand how much things are costing in real money.

Its the state of education so bad in the world today that people can't do basic maths any more?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I can pretty much guarantee it won't be like that though. As others have pointed out, the arx price will be slightly more or slightly less than the size of an arx pack, so you'll always have some left over (encouraging future spending because you're "already partway there"). These methods are tried and tested, and they work. There would be no point in FD pursuing this if there was going to be a straight 1:1 correlation between the old and new costs.

It's even possible that the effective price of a given cosmetic will be slightly less than it currently is, in raw arx-per-£/$/€ terms, making it look like a bargain. But it will be the pack thresholds that will get you over time. For a while I thought there was a small chance that FD might do things differently, and that their priority was indeed harmonising the payment system across platforms. But the second they confirmed that arx would only be available in packs, all other bets were off. There's only one reason you do that. They'll punt it as a convenience, but it's psychology.

To get really cynical for a moment, this may also be the reason gifting of arx won't be a thing. Gifting someone the value of an item won't be practical if the prices and pack thresholds don't align. And if you allowed gifting of arbitrary quantities of arx, players would organise outside of the store and arrange to trade and pool their spare arx, removing the psychological incentive of having those extra arx sitting there.

As for arx-through-gameplay, until we know the variables (gamplay requirements, arx-per-unit time, whether there are limits on maximum arx you can earn or maximum arx-per-unit-time you can accrue) that's not even a dangling carrot. It's just someone having used the word "carrot" and set everyone salivating like Pavlov's... erm... rabbits.

So, you have a bit left over. Then that goes towards the next purchase, perhaps you will make up the difference through in-game ARX.

The only way i can see this being a problem is if you make one purchase only and never again make another purchase. I think that is pretty much edge case.

I mean, you can almost guarantee there won't be such granularity you can always purchase exact amount. The only way FD could do that would be to offer packs of 1 ARX for sale so you could make exact amount purchases.

So they will offer (for example) 500 for $5, 1200 for $10, 2600 for $20, and you buy whichever you want, keeping in mind you get better value for money with the higher packs and consider your budget and your expectations for purchases in the future.

If you need 600 ARX you might get the 500 pack and earn 100 in game, or just buy the 1200 pack and have the remainder left over for your next purchase.

In Fortnite i can make their currency, vBucks in a number of ways. Obviously by purchasing packs of vbucks with increasing value the more you spend. Through Battle Royale by gaining levels (with battle pass only, cost vbucks), or through Save the World missions with vBucks, daily quests, and occasionally other quests.

Plenty of routes to get the currency without spending any real cash.

Isn't all this just a storm in a teacup. At the end of the day things will be cheaper as long as you play the game. It will be easy to evaluate the cost of paintjobs or whatever using the base package currency as a baseline and in-game activities lower the cost.

Example:

Asp Explorer ship kit currently in store for $10.

ARX price is 1000

Cheapest pack of ARX is 600 for $6

So you spend $12 on 1200 ARX

You spend 1000 ARX on the ship kit.

You now have 200 ARX left over worth $2 for your next purchase.

Equivalent cost of ship kit is $10.

How do you know if FD are creeping up the price? By watching the price for ARX and the cost of cosmetics in ARX. If they go up, then you know things are getting more expensive in real money.

Also, maybe this has been answered and i didn't see it, but i don't see anything saying that the Frontier Store would do away with making direct purchases for cash or that they would no longer display the cash value of cosmetics. They said that it would replace the Frontier Points system on consoles. So, if this is the case, then people will still be free to make direct purchases using cash, presumably though no mixing/combining ARX and cash payments.

If they did mention this, please provide the relevant quote.

 

[amigacooke {macOS}]

Umm.. ok, but its just basic maths to do the conversion and understand how much things are costing in real money.

Its the state of education so bad in the world today that people can't do basic maths any more?

But the point is with the old system you didn't have to.