Hell's bells! Why was this thread created without a poll!??? Ian Phillips! You're slacking!
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'Attack of the AI' III
- Thread starter Ian Phillips
- Start date
Still getting interdicted ALL the time and AI is still way OP. Using plasma/rail/missiles on me constantly. Lost over 2 million in an hour due to damage done to ship. 6A shields with 4 shield boosters, taken down in less than 15 seconds. So basically if I want to trade in my anaconda I have to equip class 7 shields and lose cargo space if I want to stay alive.
I like the increased difficulty but please Frontier, tone it down just a bit.
I like the increased difficulty but please Frontier, tone it down just a bit.
There we go, fixed it, poll added.
I do recommend people reserve judgement until they have tried out a few different things before voting.
I do recommend people reserve judgement until they have tried out a few different things before voting.
I find the ai fine now. You'll never appease the vocal majority of combat players. Or the vocal majority of the non-combat players.
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It's really not a pushover again at all. You've maybe been lucky but not everyone is having it easy. And I'm a decent pilot, 400hours and only lost 2 ships since game release and as said before I love a challenge but being interdicted every minute by elite/dangerous FDLs and the like, with plasma/rail guns etc is not my idea of fun. Shields are so weak it's not funny. Why do I lose shields within 15 seconds? Less than 30 even with 7A shields! I mean come on, it's ridiculous!
Reset save, currently Mostly Harmless in a E/D rated Cobra. Playing self imposed iron man mode, so avoiding too much risk.
Over the weekend I really did struggle, died a few times - I was rusty though, all but 1 of the kills was avoidable when I thought about it. After Monday's server side and another character reset I had 2 close shaves. After yesterday's update one close shave - about the same number of hours played in comparison. I only met one NPC at Master ranking yesterday, most were around Novice level.
I think its about right now, I am not a great combat pilot, but I would hope, with the scaling, and the fact I reset, to be able to deal with what the game throws at me given I have been around since Alpha, and I would hope this is a challenge to new players.
As patch notes suggested I am sticking to the shipping lanes and using the threat 1 USSs, to avoid risk.
I can only really report at the low end, I am tempted to get the Elite Python account out again and see if I can replicate some of the harshness others are seeing, as I suspect higher level NPCs would be a bit of a handful in the Python.
Simon
Over the weekend I really did struggle, died a few times - I was rusty though, all but 1 of the kills was avoidable when I thought about it. After Monday's server side and another character reset I had 2 close shaves. After yesterday's update one close shave - about the same number of hours played in comparison. I only met one NPC at Master ranking yesterday, most were around Novice level.
I think its about right now, I am not a great combat pilot, but I would hope, with the scaling, and the fact I reset, to be able to deal with what the game throws at me given I have been around since Alpha, and I would hope this is a challenge to new players.
As patch notes suggested I am sticking to the shipping lanes and using the threat 1 USSs, to avoid risk.
I can only really report at the low end, I am tempted to get the Elite Python account out again and see if I can replicate some of the harshness others are seeing, as I suspect higher level NPCs would be a bit of a handful in the Python.
Simon
I have been trading and doing missions since early beta. The AI has always been a problem in this game. In the early days AI were lethal and it was nothing to be interdicted 4-5 times before you got to a station or jumped systems. Then we had the, I will follow you anywhere AI. Then we had the I will interdict you and fly in circles AI. Today I played 4 hours, was flying an A rated Conda. Trading in high security systems. I was interdicted 4 times by 3 Pythons and an Anaconda in the 4 hours. The 3 Pythons were the same rank as me in combat and the Anaconda was an Elite. All had regular over the counter weapons. Good fights all. I did kill all 4 ships. I think the problem is Frontier's AI program. I hope they will ditch it and come up with something that works for everyone. I haven't had one AI cop scan me at a station. Smuggling must be rampant.
Oh dear.... are you sure you want to do that?
As much as can be reasonably expected.
At the very least, there have been some serious scaling issues with NPC capabilities in 2.1, or maybe I just randomly happen to already have the new ultra-meta combat and exploration ship build.
Just look at that beauty, I'm the only one that says is a nightmare but I made the perfect balance.
To be honest, there is still something that I don't like about the AI and is their ability to out-maneuver best maneuverable ships, I mean, if the difference is 2 points only I have nothing to say, but above than that is just insane, other than that I think it's ok.
Yeah maybe I just started my combat career and from my point of view it'd been better if they kept the old AI and removed the bugs, I certainly never killed an anaconda without losing my shields with the old AI, also I made a suggestion in the other thread about classifying AI according to player ability or in the worst of the cases let this AI live only in a new combat or res zone, maybe deadly combat zones / deadly RES zones? Also they said that they removed AI engineers weapons? well I got an impulse attack five minutes ago, or can I buy these already?
To be honest, there is still something that I don't like about the AI and is their ability to out-maneuver best maneuverable ships, I mean, if the difference is 2 points only I have nothing to say, but above than that is just insane, other than that I think it's ok.
Yeah maybe I just started my combat career and from my point of view it'd been better if they kept the old AI and removed the bugs, I certainly never killed an anaconda without losing my shields with the old AI, also I made a suggestion in the other thread about classifying AI according to player ability or in the worst of the cases let this AI live only in a new combat or res zone, maybe deadly combat zones / deadly RES zones? Also they said that they removed AI engineers weapons? well I got an impulse attack five minutes ago, or can I buy these already?
Well, this morning has put me more in the camp of just right.
Went to a CZ, died both times. Both times I could say were my fault.
I was skimming round the edges, mainly looking for weaker targets or those where allies were attacking.
First death: Well, not really avoidable at all, but i should have known better. Was very happy, slowling killing ships around the edges. Our side was doing well. Then noticed a lone enemy with an ally near the center of the CZ. Went for it. Bad mistake. Just as i get to the center, POW, respawn of ships. Suddenly surrounded by a dozen enemy ships all pounding on me. I'll chalk this one down to experience, but also some frustration at the repsawn mechanics which has them all suddenly appear in the center rather than jumping in... perhaps a change for somewhere down the road.
Second death: I think it must have been an Elite something or other, and they were flying a fast ship... no idea what, i didn't look. Whatever it was, it was nasty. My fault, had no high wake selected, thought it could run and low wake. My bad, by the time i had some distance, by thrusters and FSD were offline, and i was a sitting duck. Overconfidence on my part and a tactical error. Lesson learned (well, probably not, i'm bad at learning lessons)
Total combat bonds handing in this morning from 2 hours of play: Zero
Experience gained: Priceless
Thoughts on AI so far: Looking good. Although still some nasty ones out there for those looking for the challenge.
Went to a CZ, died both times. Both times I could say were my fault.
I was skimming round the edges, mainly looking for weaker targets or those where allies were attacking.
First death: Well, not really avoidable at all, but i should have known better. Was very happy, slowling killing ships around the edges. Our side was doing well. Then noticed a lone enemy with an ally near the center of the CZ. Went for it. Bad mistake. Just as i get to the center, POW, respawn of ships. Suddenly surrounded by a dozen enemy ships all pounding on me. I'll chalk this one down to experience, but also some frustration at the repsawn mechanics which has them all suddenly appear in the center rather than jumping in... perhaps a change for somewhere down the road.
Second death: I think it must have been an Elite something or other, and they were flying a fast ship... no idea what, i didn't look. Whatever it was, it was nasty. My fault, had no high wake selected, thought it could run and low wake. My bad, by the time i had some distance, by thrusters and FSD were offline, and i was a sitting duck. Overconfidence on my part and a tactical error. Lesson learned (well, probably not, i'm bad at learning lessons)
Total combat bonds handing in this morning from 2 hours of play: Zero
Experience gained: Priceless
Thoughts on AI so far: Looking good. Although still some nasty ones out there for those looking for the challenge.
I was really angry with the 2.1/1.6 upgrade, so much so that I emailed Frontier requesting a refund, as the game was now (for me) totally unplayable, so before I left the game I thought I would store my 'A' rated Python buy a Cobra III and try a few missions as some pilots had suggested, but got bored with that as I could no longer trade and didn't make any credits. Then the latest update arrived at 10.00am so after updating the game, I jumped back into my Python, and thought I would give this latest update a try before leaving the game completely. Well! it looks as though FD did it! I spent 2 hours trading and doing missions, got interdicted twice, I found 1 of the NPC's to be a little harder to kill than in the original game but not impossible, the other NPC managed to destroy my shields but I managed to run with just a few percent of hull damage, so it looks as though my game is fixed, it may not be for some of the hard combat pilots, but it's really good for me. So I have emailed FD to cancel my request for a refund, and I can now continue to play, what is one of the greatest games that I have ever had on my PC, and that's saying a lot. Thanks Frontier good update, it seems you ARE listening to your customers.
For the hard core combat intensive players, who may not be happy with this AI, is it possible for Frontier to fence off a particular large section of the Galaxy, call it a Forbidden Zone like in Star Trek and as players enter a massive warning is displayed to prevent players like me from entering, and in this zone are highly skilled NPC's with engineers mods that make it extremely difficult to kill them, (evidently there are areas similar to this in the game already, I don't visit these areas), but you could be really well rewarded if you manage to defeat them. It wouldn't be a place that I or newbie's would enter, unless suddenly becoming an expert combat pilot, which is not likely, but it would give the high combat players exactly what they want, going by the comments I've seen on this Forum? and this would not effect the rest of us who just want to trade, do missions, explore and relax. Then everybody would have what they want from this game.
For the hard core combat intensive players, who may not be happy with this AI, is it possible for Frontier to fence off a particular large section of the Galaxy, call it a Forbidden Zone like in Star Trek and as players enter a massive warning is displayed to prevent players like me from entering, and in this zone are highly skilled NPC's with engineers mods that make it extremely difficult to kill them, (evidently there are areas similar to this in the game already, I don't visit these areas), but you could be really well rewarded if you manage to defeat them. It wouldn't be a place that I or newbie's would enter, unless suddenly becoming an expert combat pilot, which is not likely, but it would give the high combat players exactly what they want, going by the comments I've seen on this Forum? and this would not effect the rest of us who just want to trade, do missions, explore and relax. Then everybody would have what they want from this game.
The problem is not that the AI is too good or too bad (okay, AI sucks for some ppl atm), i for one would welcome even better AI. The problem is that any trader that doesnt have 'end game' trading ship (cutter, anaconda,type-9) is pretty much toasted every time they get interdicted. There are no safe areas in the galaxy now. Type-6, type-7 or almost any other decent trading vessel is just a large coffin now. Now, if you want to see healthy influx of less combat oriented people starting to play this game there needs to be relatively safe areas in the galaxy where you can stay and do your trading and missions. On the other hand if fdev wants this game to be game about space combat, then the words 'blaze your own trail' should be abandoned and they should adopt the saying 'in the war torn universe of 3302 there is only one thing, WAR!'. This would atleast tell to people that consider getting this game that this game is about COMBAT in space ships, traders, explorers or anyone else should go get No man's sky instead (once its available). In either case i will be fine, i'm flying in my end game ship with powerfull weapons and shields and can handle anything this game throws against me. I'm just a bit worried about the long term survival of this game (which i love) atm...
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umm!
Customer: I want a refund for this beer, it is awful!
Beerpusher: Hmm but you have already drunk more than half of it!
Customer: well I had to make sure it WAS awful indeed..
Beerpusher: Solemnly points at the door...
"Greatest game ever" and "requst refund" does not rhyme IMO
Cheers Cmdr's
Finding that they're ramming again, even if it means they die
Or they sit on your nose as if they're trying to push you
Or they sit on your nose as if they're trying to push you
When I first purchased this game, it was perfect (for me anyway) but then FD changed the game with the 2.1/1.6 update, therefore they changed the product, the product for me, became unplayable.
If I bought a beer and drank some of it and then complained to the bar man that it had gone sour, he would change it (I used to work behind a bar).
FD have been great at sorting these problems out, and maybe I should have had more faith in there abilities to solve the problems, but at the time I was angry.
If you bought a TV that suddenly stopped working after 6 months, you would sit and watch a blank screen then!
Have you noticed how cold your ship is during the fight? Is that normal with all weapons deployed?
Maybe it possible the NPC can't actually target you?
Javert
Volunteer Moderator
One other thing I definitely saw last night.
At a USS I saw an FAS and a police Viper which were apparently fighting each other but there was no visible weapon fire. Their shields and hull were down and they were flying around each other like in a battle. Unfortunately I'm not 100% sure whether the hull was actually going down whilst I watched. After a while I attacked the wanted FAS and it changed its attention onto me but I don't think it fired.
I think Ziljan and others are right that there are some bugs with ships that are either not firing, or they think they are firing but it's not visible or effective on the player ship.
At a USS I saw an FAS and a police Viper which were apparently fighting each other but there was no visible weapon fire. Their shields and hull were down and they were flying around each other like in a battle. Unfortunately I'm not 100% sure whether the hull was actually going down whilst I watched. After a while I attacked the wanted FAS and it changed its attention onto me but I don't think it fired.
I think Ziljan and others are right that there are some bugs with ships that are either not firing, or they think they are firing but it's not visible or effective on the player ship.
These polls are not a good judge of the general populace. Most active forum members that care enough to vote are your resident lifer's... ppl who play this game way too much and enjoy the sadistic approach the FDev team has made with this relentless A.I.
Almost impossible to out-maneuver most a.i. without retreating to your friendly neighborhood system force to kill them for you. The new A.I. is too good and has made the game pretty annoying to play. Top that off with always being welcomed by a rival faction member, or five, as soon as you land at a nav beacon or RES. Plus, the ridiculous accidental friendly fire that causes all your new bffs to want to murder you unless you hyperjump away. It's a recipe for unecessary frustration.
A few small changes could make this game amazing. Like being able to pay off small fines on the spot, instead of everything trying to kill you for a measely 400cr
Almost impossible to out-maneuver most a.i. without retreating to your friendly neighborhood system force to kill them for you. The new A.I. is too good and has made the game pretty annoying to play. Top that off with always being welcomed by a rival faction member, or five, as soon as you land at a nav beacon or RES. Plus, the ridiculous accidental friendly fire that causes all your new bffs to want to murder you unless you hyperjump away. It's a recipe for unecessary frustration.
A few small changes could make this game amazing. Like being able to pay off small fines on the spot, instead of everything trying to kill you for a measely 400cr