'Attack of the AI' III

[Wyaston Hypatia]

I think I've played enough to have a view now (self-imposed Ironman).
I've voted 'About right'.
I think that the lower to mid difficulties are spot on for my skills. They provide a challenge when in a poorly equipped ship, but are not silly good or bad. Once I've got a better equipped ship they aren't a problem, but this is how it should be. At that point I should be meeting higher ranked enemies.
I would like to see a little increase in the difficulties from the Dangerous and Deadly - They are not easy but I don't fear them the way I did before the update.
Not reached a level to meet an Elite yet - might never.
The balance between Security & Pirates in HighRES sites seems to be too much in favour of the security, they feel more like Low & mid RES.

 

[DIRTY_BEGGAR]

Difficulty level for NPCs is fine after the patch imo, but then I wasn't too bothered before !
I switched from my A&B rated Python that I normally use in private group mode to an A rated Viper III and Open play and spent an hour in haz rez zone for Mehet CG with no problems - Except for 2 Eagles I found with permanent shields ? One had 4/5 guys including me attacking it for at least 3 mins solid and shield was still max, hull still 100% as well. The one I was attacking was wanted, the other I saw was a System Defence Force ship. Have people seen this before ? I don't often use Open play as a few of my clan from another game play in private mode.

 

[Whiterose]

These polls are not a good judge of the general populace.

Lol, since when has any poll been accurate, just look at the last general election in the UK. I think the AI is about right, what annoys me is that they are always, and I mean always elite combat rank. 14 times last night.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

If you ignore the poll for a moment and actually start to read and try to understand what people are saying here, it should be clear that the whole issue is a lot worse than *just* a balancing problem. That what happens to people seems highly inconsistent and indicates a huge structural hidden problem. I'm afraid nothing that can easily be fixed by tuning a few parameters here and there. Some people are fine, others seem inherently borked and that in both directions of "too hard" and "too easy". Meanwhile I doubt it's all about different player skills...

ok im going to do another session i may -MAY- try a low intensity zone of some kind. probably combat zone since nothing should happen to me unless i pick a side. but im going to say something about the new AI behaviour which is i hate the ramming. no matter what ship it is, a lot of them dont do the turning trying to get in position thing. they dont boost away. they try to ram. thats annoying and it isnt fun. by all means make them run away but stop the constant ramming rubbish.

maybe i will see some of this other AI in the cz. but in USS and interdictions which is where all my combat so far since 2.1 has been i have not seen any ignore me. not firing weapons yes but not ignore me when i fire. but i agree something is not working right and i have no doubt about what others are seeing is happening.

 

[kofeyh]

Ramming is probably happening because frontier have removed virtually every method that allows them to fight. If your shields are down they will often throw themselves at you because that's really all they have left to do.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

well i didnt make it to any cz or anywhere. i made two jumps on my way to an engineer. interdicted very soon after one by imperial clipper master npc. demands cargo. opens fire about 5 seconds later. 10 seconds later my shields are down and im running but targets my thrusters. disabled. dead. 1.4 million rebuy. back to farseer inc. so still need to make the journey only now i havent got the commodities i was carrying to check if i needed so i have no need for my journey. and two days worth of money gone.

i thought you were not supposed to get a constant stream of over your own rank enemies interdicting? im competent not expert or master. i should not be having so many dangerous and master encounters.

EDIT: i mean thats ALL i am getting. nothing higher and nothing lower.

 

[Ziljan]

Ramming is probably happening because frontier have removed virtually every method that allows them to fight. If your shields are down they will often throw themselves at you because that's really all they have left to do.

Could be right. I suspect it's even more basic than this. I have noticed that when you're facing an NPC, they will all either retreat or advance depending on what you do. Vipers do the same thing, and fly harmlessly past you because of their low collision profile. Perhaps the bigger slower ships seem to want ram you, but are actually just trying to fly past you but can't due to their girth?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

These polls are not a good judge of the general populace.

Yes, we are fully aware of that. FD for sure are watching actual game statistics as much as the forums, as well as other social media channels and reading their emails, to get as clear as view possible of the situation. Forum polls are horrible things, and always funny when someone points to the results of them and declares them the truth, but it allows us to at least guage the opinions of the small subset of players who are active on the forums, even if its not completely representative.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Yes, we are fully aware of that. FD for sure are watching actual game statistics as much as the forums, as well as other social media channels and reading their emails, to get as clear as view possible of the situation. Forum polls are horrible things, and always funny when someone points to the results of them and declares them the truth, but it allows us to at least guage the opinions of the small subset of players who are active on the forums, even if its not completely representative.

FD devs prefer detailed feedback over poll or thread activity any day. If you have issue, detailed description and video goes a long way than outrage post.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Could be right. I suspect it's even more basic than this. I have noticed that when you're facing an NPC, they will all either retreat or advance depending on what you do. Vipers do the same thing, and fly harmlessly past you because of their low collision profile. Perhaps the bigger slower ships seem to want ram you, but are actually just trying to fly past you but can't due to their girth?

that is what im thinking too.

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ok my interdiction issues seem to be : if i have cargo i am interdicted fairly frequently in any inhabited system by npcs either master or dangerous, sometimes expert. if i have no cargo i am interdicted far less by any level npc - last one was mostly harmless in DBS (no not an aston martin. i wish!) and security level of system makes no difference if i have cargo....

 

[Steve50]

After my experiences last night and this morning, I have to vote "too easy"

I died a lot after the initial 2.1 release and that wasn't a huge issue to me, yes I dislike losing the credits as I'm not rich but it taught me that the npc's were no longer toothless targets, and I had to learn to pick my fights more carefully and adapt my combat skills (or lack thereof)

With 2.1.02 I find I don't really have to totally concentrate on the battle any longer, I would agree that it's not totally gone back to the utterly dismal cannon fodder ways of 2.0 but it's a lot worse than 2.1, imo it's been turned down too far.

I loved the danger and excitement of 2.1 combat, this is heavily watered down now.

 

[Riverside]

I've had a more extended play in some different RESs this morning, and tbh I'm struggling to see how the current AI is an improvement over the earlier versions (I got my Elite combat rank before 1.4 so this is where most of my experience of combat came from).

Sure there are no rotisseries, but the only reason why I can kill anything is because I have Police helping me. Right now I'm inclined to think 'dump the lot' and just put it back to 2.0 & fix the bugs in that.

It feels like I'm playing space invaders right now, it's not engaging, it's not fun, it's either boring & safe or (at my level at least) impossibly hard.

This isn't the game I want to play. If I do a bit of A-B trading to rebuild some cash reserves I'm getting interdicted by Elite Anacondas in High Security systems, the police jump in & chase it off, so I don't die but I don't get the bounty either.

It's fallen between two stools & for me, I'm wondering whether someone will pick it up & repair it or if they are waiting for me to put it in the bin.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

i cant vote in the poll. mainly because i think its still too complex for even the range of answers in the poll. interdictions its not the AI thats broken its the generation of them for me - if i have cargo then its all above my rank. if not then i get the odd random level. and the combat is too ninary for me. if its doable then i can. but if i need to run then they are targetting thrusters and i have no chance. i really cant answer when the AI is any of; ok, too easy OR too hard...

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I've had a more extended play in some different RESs this morning, and tbh I'm struggling to see how the current AI is an improvement over the earlier versions (I got my Elite combat rank before 1.4 so this is where most of my experience of combat came from).

Sure there are no rotisseries, but the only reason why I can kill anything is because I have Police helping me. Right now I'm inclined to think 'dump the lot' and just put it back to 2.0 & fix the bugs in that.

It feels like I'm playing space invaders right now, it's not engaging, it's not fun, it's either boring & safe or (at my level at least) impossibly hard.

This isn't the game I want to play. If I do a bit of A-B trading to rebuild some cash reserves I'm getting interdicted by Elite Anacondas in High Security systems, the police jump in & chase it off, so I don't die but I don't get the bounty either.

It's fallen between two stools & for me, I'm wondering whether someone will pick it up & repair it or if they are waiting for me to put it in the bin.

its similar for me except the levels are different and i havent tried CZ or res

if it stays like this rebuy will have to be rethought for those of us without disposable ships and infinite millions to rebuy

 

[Strudders]

Can I ask a quick question.

Who has changed their ship since 2.1

I ask this because I was getting owned in my combat Python and felt it was less manoeuvrable to cope with the AI's increased abilities.

So I have reverted to a Vulture and I have had 0 issues since I did....

So for those of us who prefer combat and mixing it up with the wanted AI, is this the answer to some of us?

This of course is not help to truckers, miners, explorers or cargo mission runners....

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Can I ask a quick question.

Who has changed their ship since 2.1

I ask this because I was getting owned in my combat Python and felt it was less manoeuvrable to cope with the AI's increased abilities.

So I have reverted to a Vulture and I have had 0 issues since I did....

So for those of us who prefer combat and mixing it up with the wanted AI, is this the answer to some of us?

This of course is not help to truckers, miners, explorers or cargo mission runners....

im not pure combat. i am set up for a bit of everything and i changed my ship to a config suggested by someone in the first AI thread, but when the opponent who interdicts you is too powerful it makes no difference. another config i was offered was for pure trader but i dont want to be pure trader. nor pure explorer. i wanted to have a second ship for pure combat (federal assault ship part built) but i had my second ever rebuy today, no chance to escape once i saw i was outmatched and my shields died. considering dumping ecm for another shield booster but im not sure if thats viable.

i dont find trucking vast quantities of low value between high sec systems interesting. i find doing missions and taking small amounts of higher value stuff to places a pure trader would not go to (unless he lost his marbles) interesting. no combat at all is dull, but right now its glitched interception npc skill generation for me and its a binary - either its a nice fight but i can win or escape it if they just stay behind me and i cant get em in sights - but if its not winnable i dont find out until its too late to flee.

 

[Riverside]

Can I ask a quick question.

Who has changed their ship since 2.1

I ask this because I was getting owned in my combat Python and felt it was less manoeuvrable to cope with the AI's increased abilities.

So I have reverted to a Vulture and I have had 0 issues since I did....

So for those of us who prefer combat and mixing it up with the wanted AI, is this the answer to some of us?

This of course is not help to truckers, miners, explorers or cargo mission runners....

Combat in a combat ship isn't the problem for me, it's trying to do anything else with your ship & having to deal with combat then. This morning I was out in my all purpose Clipper, which is kitted out for armed exploring/nomadic trading. It doesn't have armour or SCBs, but otherwise it's A-rated and it doesn't have the firepower any more.

The Vulture is a fun ship but it's not all rounder.

 

[o2thaZ]

Finally sometimes you get a real challenge. Who cares the AI is cheating. If they didnt it would be pre 2.1 easy. Now you cant afford to fall asleep in a hazres.
Finally elite is a bit more dangerous. Please no nerfs.

Im sorry for the casual players when you get owned oops I meant cheated by the AI even of you are gut. I know how you feel I had for the first time a repairbill of 600k since launch.
but seriously grow some balls and stop complaining.

carry on.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Finally sometimes you get a real challenge. Who cares the AI is cheating. If they didnt it would be pre 2.1 easy. Now you cant afford to fall asleep in a hazres.
Finally elite is a bit more dangerous. Please no nerfs.

Im sorry for the casual players when you get owned oops I meant cheated by the AI even of you are gut. I know how you feel I had for the first time a repairbill of 600k since launch.
but seriously grow some balls and stop complaining.

carry on.

its REAL simple. elite was never a pure combat game. in 84 you had to trade to earn upgrades. now you cant. if you think the devs can keep the game going catering for the few pure combateers who already have billions and can afford rebuys so every ship no matter its size is disposable then thats nice for you rich guy. personally i think they need people able to start playing now. but lets not do the whole you are casual this is a pros game please.

will just add games are supposed to be enjoyable not aa form of masochism, and i have no time for the people thinking that they are proving how big their peepee is when in fact they are proclaiming they are compensating by boasting of their ability...

 

[myrr mac]

Just some data since latest patch:

4 interdictions:
3x master, 1x elite.

ships: dropship, FDL, FAS.


my ship: Anaconda.
my combat rank: harmless.
my trade rank: elite.

my cargo: limpets and 1t samararium.

no pp, no missions. Get to be in peace most of the time, the interdictions are now quite rare. Gotta wonder @ the combat rank of those pirates though. I m baffled as to the scaling being used by this game.

 

[Colonial Air Force]

I think it's just right (although I could stand to see it one little tick easier), but I think the payouts need to be adjusted so the cr/hr matches what it was when AI was a cakewalk.