'Attack of the AI' III

[PavelKCZ]

I tested a new AI for approx. four hours first with my Vulture and after that, I (finally) unpacked my Python. I did hunting materials around Nav Beacon, some delivery missions, some cargo trading etc. I fought various enemies from Master to Elite, I even tried a wing or two (with assistance of Security forces) and I must say one thing:

THEY DID IT. THOSE GUYS AND GIRLS FROM FD FINALLY DID IT. 100% PERFECT JOB.

Exactly the right mix of fun, thrill and difficulty. AI is smart, is trying to do some nice manoeuvres etc. As a player, I am absolutely happy now with AI.

One thing that I should mention is, that I am flying with Saitek X52 Pro HOTAS. I can imagine, that AI is probably much harder for players with keyboard and mouse.

 

[Ziljan]

It really does look like we are playing different versions of the game...........

I checked out your video and i don't get any of that NPC/AI behaviour, I shoot they shoot back, with twists and turns trying to get on my 6 or charge me down.....

not sure what causes the issue, maybe it's instancing/location based, but you definately are not experiencing the same game as me.

best to see if enough people seeing the issue can report it and give details of location/system/connection etc and hopefully try and narrow it down.

Have you tried using a vpn connection to spoof being elsewhere to see the AI's behaviour changes? (just trying to narrow it down)

How many times have your shields dropped when fighting 1v1? Compared with yesterday?

 

[aramil]

How many times have your shields dropped when fighting 1v1? Compared with yesterday?

About the same, had my cockpit blown out by an elite python that dictted me (mission risk), just before jumping on the forums (flying my trusty Vulture).

 

[Cmdr Suzdal]

It seems variable. I wasn't interdicted at all during mission running and only scanned once while mining (not in a RES). I then took my A rated, unmodded Vulture to a Low CZ and found that I could duel with any of the light ships there (didn't see any below expert and fought two or three Elite) but that I couldn't keep up with the turn rate (even with FA Off) of the Dangerous Anaconda that finally drove me out. That Annie also hit me with several shots that popped warnings about impulse attacks, thermal damage and enhanced module damage (as did a couple of the smaller ships). In fact one of the reasons that I had to flee was that I was hit by a weapon that popped a warning for module damage and my guns immediately malfunctioned. My shields were up at the time so I don't know what that was about. Interestingly I was hit several times by a T9 firing PAs but those hits never produced a thermal attack warning (hey, I had my back to him).

I repaired and rearmed (I'm not impressed by the large multicannon, BTW, they seem to take an inordinately long time to kill small ships) and then returned to the CZ but was jumped by three ships when I declared. I pulled distance and dragged an enemy Vulture with me. We got into a turning fight and I was able to mostly strip his shields. He then decided that he would spend the rest of the fight trying to ram me (the Annie had also done this but I knew he would try it and was dodging him easily). Interestingly when we did collide we both had no shields but he took about 5% less damage from the impact than I did. Unfortunately he got me with a second ram and I had to bug out with a smashed canopy.

I enjoy the new AI when a proper dogfight is happening but the level of module malfunction is not fun and the ramming behaviour of the NPCs is both predictable and rather dull. The turn rates on some of the ships seem odd as well: it feels easier to keep on the six of Eagles and Vipers than some of the bigger ships.

 

[Kaliblister]

i think NPC really need some handcrafted loadout. you can't put the same loadout on every ship.... some of the AI are kinda OP because of it some are juste useless junk.

i just seen an Elite Clipper with fixed PA and... the poor guy was forced to ram because yeah.. you can't hit with fixed weapon on wings.

 

[Soopyyy]

Speaking of ramming, what is with the Federal Gunships and ramming all the time?

 

[Kaliblister]

federal ship are great rammer. the AI use that from the beginning.

 

[kofeyh]

What could be changed is NPC outfitting. Due of removal of mods decrease of their caps might cause that impression. I really doubt AI code is changed in any shape or form.

You keep arguing that people definitely can't be experiencing what quite a few people are experiencing. AI that is generally low ranked, does not resist, and is much less of a challenge. To the point of being 2.0 levels.

How many people does it take to notice the same thing? AI were changed; update notes say as much.

 

[Noddie]

Looks as if the AI has been turned down a bit. To be honest I liked the more aggressive one, but I understand it completely ruined the game for a lot of people who didn't.


To me the latest AI seems less aggressive than the one it replaced. I've had quite a few ships (wisely) decide to run away. The original AI used to often fly as if it either couldn't actually use the controls, or didn't actually care that it was being destroyed. The current AI does give the impression of wanting to fight, but it just isn't terribly good at it compared to last week's AI. I was also able to outrun an Imperial Navy vessel after interdiction without being scanned - which I don't think I'd have got away with last week in my DBX. So it's as if they've turned down the AI a little - at least for the ships I saw tonight.


That all said, i've been floating around a Nav Beacon in a secure location. I've seen a lot of Sidewinders and other low-value pirates tonight. Nobody in an Anaconda (one in a FDS, but he was half-dead by the time I got there due to Police action), and the bounty I've had on me for the last week has expired and cleared - so no more bounty hunters after my scalp. I was flying with an empty hold, so I got the first shot off against any pirates. Maybe i'd have found it more of a challenge if I still had bounty hunters trying to kill me and was in a more dangerous spot, but it feels to me like they've toned it down a bit, whilst not rolling back to the original AI (thank god!). My ship isn't that bossing (quite a sorted DBX) but I'd have expected to take on all the ships I did tonight and win, it just would have been a little harder earlier this week.

For all I know, Elite opponents are a deadly as they were last week still. Certainly the Elite police ships I saw in action tonight seemed pretty effective!

All and all. Seems quite a nice rebalancing operation. Although I'll miss the old Psycho AI, and I don't know if it's still around in other places. For me, from what I've seen so far, this seems about right now.

 

[Faded Glory]

Again, just to chip in.

Dropped into a threat 1 USS. A wing of four low ranked wanted, one Anaconda and the rest small, plus system security already there.

When I attacked the first of the wing, and Eagle, all four from the wing opened fire on me, taking down my shields enough to warrant an SCB. The small ships flew aggressively trying to avoid my fire, I took down the one that I had attacked then joined system security taking out the Anaconda (competent), which was relatively easy with me and a few system authority on him, then took out the last of the small ships that was continuing to fire at me.

So, I don't feel the NPCs are totally dumbed down, and considering this was a very low threat level, it was a reasonable engagement.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I haven't had a chance to give combat a proper run-through, but what I did notice last night is that higher ranked NPC's are much more aggressive, whereas the lower ranked NPC's *feel* like they've been made a lot dumber. Now admittedly, these turned out to be Mostly Harmless NPC's worth less than 1000 Credits in bounties.....so maybe that's why. As I said, need to test it out more.

 

[aramil]

I can only guess that with some people seeing "idiot" AI and some seeing "instakill" AI, that the issue more likely is to be within the way the game generates and distributes AI through the p2p/uPnP system, and uses clients computers as well as the server. (could it be a restrictive firewall (or rule) neuttering/buffing the AI?)

It just seems odd that the results we see on the forum are not consistant with everyone seeing the same behaviour from the AI.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Haven't seen much of a change beyond Pythons may be that bit easier but a FAS scared the crap outta me and I got ganked by NPC's which are still a real and present danger.
Haven't experienced any insta kills so that fix is looking good.
Works for me, I don't try too hard.
Thread needs feedback from dedicated traders as they were suffering the most.

 

[Mohenjo]

Haven't tried it yet, heading for the bubble to see what I can find.

 

[Ivan Shevchenko]

The AI I've been fighting in my Anaconda (Expert and up) have been just fine, and have been challenging to fight. I've not had to run unless I angered the 8 Authority vessels a few km away, and that's that.

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

Can confirm the AI is a pushover once again, fought a bunch of Dangerous ranked vipers and cobra III's in a standard RES, all they do is fly straight and they ALL try to ram you.
Also fought if you could call it that, a Master Python who didn't fire a single shot, I'm calling this one a bug, clearly not by design.

meh, looks like it's time to head out into the black again.

I like a challenge FD, this is not.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Or people are lying or exaggerated on one side or both...

I think we all know which side. A vocal minority of RES farmers who were peeved that their credits per hour fell below "acceptable" levels.

 

[WR3ND]

I think we all know which side. A vocal minority of RES farmers who were peeved that their credits per hour fell below "acceptable" levels.

I trust Agony_Aunt's opinion on the matter, though it might have been influenced by certain events more than others, so I have to allow for some ground or variability in difference between different people, their skill levels, ranks, and specific setups.

That being said, the NPCs never posed any true challenge nor risk to me at all throughout the 2.1 beta and after it went live. It's been a Sunday afternoon in the park with strawberry jam on toast and tea. The only difference I really noticed is that the AI had better moves; there was no challenge, unless for whatever reason I decided to purposefully bite off more than I could chew, i.e., play like a moron that didn't care about the rebuy screen.

I am sorry to be harsh about it and am not quite sure how to be tactful and honest at the same time, but this has been my experience with the game. I've only ever lost twice to the AI in combat in over a year of playing, all of which included my ranking up to expert combat level as well as playing the game otherwise. More than that was too dull for me to bother with. It wasn't attractive enough for me to grind my way to elite whilst farming potatoes.

When some people in effect said they had no way to play the game anymore due to the AI and NPC changes in 2.1, they might as well have said they were mermaids come to tell the human world of the wonders of Atlantis. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this game is stupidly easy, unless you go looking for trouble, and then it has only ever offered a mediocre challenge.

I don't care if you "get good." Your skills and play styles aren't my problem; the game's quality is.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Wow, 185 pages already.

So, here is my experience. Looking good now. I'm not sure how new players will fare with the current tweaks, and i unpledged from powerplay, and looking at some reports, glad i did it, the PP AI still looks godly and appearing all over the place.

But for regular play, i can now go back out in suboptimal ships and not get wasted within seconds. Also I can now survive in combat zones. I'm getting a good challenge (took me 10 mins to take out a CM3 in a Vulture :O) and real risk, but not insanely so, and so far, if i've needed to run, i've been able.

Naturally, will reserve full judgement until i've given it a lot more testing, but so far, so good.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I trust Agony_Aunt's opinion on the matter,

Oh dear.... are you sure you want to do that?