'Attack of the AI' III

[capt_sparks]

When I first started playing this game, the first thing I tried to level up is my trading rank, alongside with exploration rank. With higher trading ranks, I get very profitable missions. Once I earned a lot credits, I built my A-rated ship and start doing combat.

People should realize that earning trading rank first is a must before venturing to combat, rather than whine when combat seems to be very hard.

 

[Ziljan]

When I first started playing this game, the first thing I tried to level up is my trading rank, alongside with exploration rank. With higher trading ranks, I get very profitable missions. Once I earned a lot credits, I built my A-rated ship and start doing combat.

People should realize that earning trading rank first is a must before venturing to combat, rather than whine when combat seems to be very hard.

Not so sure this is best advice for 2.1. Getting Trade rank won't teach you how to handle a combat ship. And that skill is far more important than any gear you might get. A Viper in the right hands is far more deadly than an FDL in the hands of a trading Tycoon.

Besides, combat is incredibly easy to dip your big toe into. Just go to any high sec system with a ringed planet. Fly to the RES in your sidewinder, wait for a Wanted ship to get attacked by the Police, and join in the dog pile. Lots of money for very little effort. And you can start to learn how ships handle in combat without all the risk of getting blown to bits.

 

[Pardot Kynes]

When I first started playing this game, the first thing I tried to level up is my trading rank, alongside with exploration rank. With higher trading ranks, I get very profitable missions. Once I earned a lot credits, I built my A-rated ship and start doing combat.

People should realize that earning trading rank first is a must before venturing to combat, rather than whine when combat seems to be very hard.

Why would having a high trading rank help with combat? Could you explain that?

 

[n4p0l3on]

[video=youtube_share;MGSbrNM3HYc]https://youtu.be/MGSbrNM3HYc[/video]

 

[myrr mac]

I dont know ziljan.

Not on any missions. Not in PP. Carrying 5 tons of cargo. Harmless and getting attacked by master-elite pirates. Flying an annaconda. From my experience, npc skill rank is independent of ship. Your ship just determines their ship. So if I fly a sidey, I ll get master-elites after me still, but they ll be in smaller ships.

THis doesnt seem reasonable to me. It seems objectively bad design.

Either do level scaling or dont do level scaling. Personally I d prefer none, and let the players find their challenge by choosing where in the Galaxy they are, and what they are doing. Not their ship or rank. However its obvious some kind of level scaling is in place, and that its malfunctioning right now.

 

[howardtay]

To satisfy everyone that plays ED I would suggest that there is only one solution. The Galaxy in Elite Dangerous is big, it's very big, enormous in fact, plenty of room for everyone, wouldn't it be easier for FD to fence off part of this Galaxy, turn it into a clearly marked Forbidden Zone within which are still high trading missions, and all the other stuff that the normal ED has, but in the forbidden zone, there are the real badass NPC's, and this would be where all high calibre combat pilots could go to get their adrenalin fix, in the rest of the Galaxy there are the easier NPC's who are a bit of a challenge to normal mediocre players who just want to trade, mine, or explore (as long as they don't go into the Forbidden Zone). Is this not possible? If enough players request it then I'm sure FD would be happy to accomodate, if only to stop the constant complaints on these forums, they must be really worried that they are losing customers because of this problem. I think this would be a good solution, are am I talking nonesense?

 

[Ziljan]

I dont know ziljan.

Not on any missions. Not in PP. Carrying 5 tons of cargo. Harmless and getting attacked by master-elite pirates. Flying an annaconda. From my experience, npc skill rank is independent of ship. Your ship just determines their ship. So if I fly a sidey, I ll get master-elites after me still, but they ll be in smaller ships.

THis doesnt seem reasonable to me. It seems objectively bad design.

Either do level scaling or dont do level scaling. Personally I d prefer none, and let the players find their challenge by choosing where in the Galaxy they are, and what they are doing. Not their ship or rank. However its obvious some kind of level scaling is in place, and that its malfunctioning right now.

What system are you in. I want to be there!!

I would tell you the name of the system I am in (safe as a warm bubble bath) but my minor faction leader would flay me. We are conducting highly sensitive BGS shenanigans If you PM, I'll may tell you, but only if you promise to run missions for the "right side"

 

[capt_sparks]

Not so sure this is best advice for 2.1. Getting Trade rank won't teach you how to handle a combat ship. And that skill is far more important than any gear you might get. A Viper in the right hands is far more deadly than an FDL in the hands of a trading Tycoon.

Besides, combat is incredibly easy to dip your big toe into. Just go to any high sec system with a ringed planet. Fly to the RES in your sidewinder, wait for a Wanted ship to get attacked by the Police, and join in the dog pile. Lots of money for very little effort. And you can start to learn how ships handle in combat without all the risk of getting blown to bits.

True, if the cmdr has the right mindset and patience to learn. But for those who get easily frustrated or has a hard time doing combat in the early stages of the progression, I'd recommend to do some trading/exploration first.

 

[myrr mac]

I m all over the place Ziljan.

Doing engi unlocking. I v travelled over 1k ly last few days.

 

[capt_sparks]

Why would having a high trading rank help with combat? Could you explain that?

Trading rank only gives them money, which will give them enough to purchase for better upgrades and ships, so hopefully by that time they're going to have a better chance/play against NPCs.

 

[Ziljan]

To satisfy everyone that plays ED I would suggest that there is only one solution. The Galaxy in Elite Dangerous is big, it's very big, enormous in fact, plenty of room for everyone, wouldn't it be easier for FD to fence off part of this Galaxy, turn it into a clearly marked Forbidden Zone within which are still high trading missions, and all the other stuff that the normal ED has, but in the forbidden zone, there are the real badass NPC's, and this would be where all high calibre combat pilots could go to get their adrenalin fix, in the rest of the Galaxy there are the easier NPC's who are a bit of a challenge to normal mediocre players who just want to trade, mine, or explore (as long as they don't go into the Forbidden Zone). Is this not possible? If enough players request it then I'm sure FD would be happy to accomodate, if only to stop the constant complaints on these forums, they must be really worried that they are losing customers because of this problem. I think this would be a good solution, are am I talking nonesense?

This already exists. But it appears to be a patchwork quilt rather than a great wall. We're still figuring out where the lines are. I cannot for the life of me find wanted elite pilots in my neck of the woods. And other people seem to be tripping over them. Still trying to gather more info on how this system works. I am pretty sure it is tied to security rating and population size. Maybe player traffic as well. Probably similar to the PP spawn rate algorithm. As soon as I figure out the biggest order contributors, I'll make a big post about it so that people can plan accordingly!

 

[JuicerPrime]

All in all the AI feels janky and awkward, so much more so than in previous updates. The balance across the game feels dug up and skewed.

This. I couldn't think of a way to put it, but "janky" fits what I'm thinking about the AI pretty well. Something janky and off-putting about it, and not just the ramming.

Like I said, bugs aside, at least 90% of the "too hard" complaints I have seen over the last week is coming from people who seem to think that they should be able to take down Elite or Deadly NPC's in a Sidey or an Adder. These are the people who got rich from RES farming & grinding the Robigo run.....and are just that their in-game exploits are getting shut down.

And yet people with Deadly and Elite ranks are getting taken down or stymied by AI Sideys and Adders, if some of the reports are to be believed. What's good for the goose is clearly not good for the gander, if that's the case.

 

[jjt]

Just tried the update.

Few thoughts.

Fly to High RES, shoot few NPC:s get some money, get some Combat rank. Used to be good casual fun before.

Now:

Grind Grind Grind. NPC:s are much harder to kill, chaff all the time, turret/gimball weapons are useless, bounties are same as before and it seems that there is no more reward on the rank side either. So whats the point with all this? It does not make the game more FUN, that for sure. NPC:s are hard to kill now, you could atleast reward the killings with more money and/or rank.

If the plan was to get people play Elite Dangerous forever in order to get anywhere in making money and/or getting higher rank, the plan has worked.

For a casual player, not. I think, I'll let the game "rest" for the time being, too difficult. Or maybe I'm just a bad pilot, anyway, I'm off. No plan to return playing for the time being, was really looking for the multicrew and ship launched fighter update, but it seems that in order to get the money for the bigger ships, one must play forever.

Too difficult. Period. Goodbye.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Ziljan, get yourself a Telemetry Suites, 4 or something like that and see you interdicted by rather nasty pirates

 

[myrr mac]

Ziljan, get yourself a Telemetry Suites, 4 or something like that and see you interdicted by rather nasty pirates

I suspect it literally doesnt matter what you are carrying or how much, with the exception of bio waste and limpets, which are probably coded exceptions. It could be 1 ton of grain or 800 tons of painite. I suspect the pirate response would be 100.00% identical.

 

[Ziljan]

Ziljan, get yourself a Telemetry Suites, 4 or something like that and see you interdicted by rather nasty pirates

My Viper must stay svelte. Even 1 superfluous Ton makes a difference.

 

[JuicerPrime]

Ziljan, get yourself a Telemetry Suites, 4 or something like that and see you interdicted by rather nasty pirates

Or hang about near Purut, I got interdicted out the blue by a rather nasty Dangerous railgun Viper III out there on a Penniless mission. He must have been pretty desperate for those Survival Suits, is all I can say >.>

My Viper must stay svelte. Even 1 superfluous Ton makes a difference.

Pfft. Only one ton of cargo and people complain it goes right to their thighs

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

well i just set elite in the steam properties 'only update when i launch this game'. i havent uninstalled it, but i cant deal with constant interdictions in every system, regardless of security rating, by npcs who are mostly dangerous with the odd expert (if im lucky) or master (for the guaranteed rebuy). yes you can avoid or escape most interdictions - fun isnt it, always running even when no missions, just because you have some rewards for engineer mods in hold. and then losing them anyway because of an interdiction you could flee from and then they destroy thrusters so you cant flee back to sc or jump out.

lots of fun being in an identical ship that somehow out turns you. oh i forgot i had to 4 pip at this precise moment in sys while i was turning, because i need strong shields, then i can 4 pip to... sys because i cant out turn him with 4 pips in shields but if i drop to 3 or 2 i got hammered quicker by the npc and then hammered in here for not using the pips at precise points for the 0.0000000001% more shields/maneuvering ability. oh and because i wasnt flying backwards with FA off - its a combat situation, not a button mashing situation. i shouldnt have to micromanage pips 300 times during a combat in a GAME. a few times yes but not all the time. i made comparison to formula 1 racing once- nico rosberg is always messing around on his steering wheel at every corner (or was) with brake balance. i didnt notice anyone saying lewis hamilton did that, and to me that means nico has less attention on the track than he should. lewis was winning those races. maybe nico has rolled back a bit on micromanaging the brake balance this year... but its the same thing.

nor should i have to mess around the controls every few seconds, causing me more problems when the AI does soemthing to make that the worst possible thing to have done at that point. NOR should i have to optimise a build on a multi-role ship JUST for one of the roles and forgo any fun at all in two of them (trade/explore) or be criticised for trying to do combat badly in a bad ship. nor should i have to be interdicted ONLY by npcs over my level constantly. the same ship should not be able to out turn me or out boost me when they are not supposed to be able to. enemies shouldnt have the power to kill you with you not having ANY chance to escape at all.

this was my favourite game. right now i cant bring myself to fly out of where i am docked or saved in space or wherever i am. i cant even bring myself to go out the bubble exploring because i have seen someone say how 400ly out they got interdicted and destroyed. i dont want to have to pick a dull role and config my ship only for that and still die more often than not. i ddont have the funds to finish my FAS so i cant even make a combat ship. even a cobra cannot outrun enemies. engineer mods have so many downsides its not worth bothering for the one or two upsides - but hey, i got destroyed so all my 10 tons of mission reward engineer material commodities are gone anyway. so i cant use the recipes i had pinned anyway.

dont get me wrong, there are lots of changes i like, and the AI itself the fights are more fun - when they are winnable. trouble is, you cant find out unless you try. and the ones you cant win you no longer have the chance of fleeing when you find out. like the headache inducing sunglare on the console now maybe thats 'realism'. but its selective - you can look at the stars close up through the canopy and not get blinded. im not uninstalling the game - if and when there is a patch i will come back and look, and see if the interdiction frequency and npc kinds generated are tweaked also. but i find it sad that while the combats that were fair in 2.1 (or 2.01 whatever they call it) are more fun... i had more fun overall with the 2.0 AI. at least there when i saw how badly i was doing against an anaconda i could flee when my shield went. my thrusters took longer than 5 seconds to destroy.

steam says 3640 people in game. i hope im wrong thinking thats a couple thousand down from what i remember seeing a few weeks ago on a weekend.

may your rebuys be rare commanders.

 

[TT_GreyWolf]

There are a view Questions about the Updates :

When the reason is to have harder fights why did you go to PVP and hunt for real players?
Why dind't Frontier split this part Engineers into a seprate part of the game?
Why frontier gave the ability to the NPC's
What is with the costumers they offer mining - eploration - Trading ?


At the moment you've got only one chance to play and this is sitting in a small well equipped fighter and flying arround for bounty hunting.
Normals all this "Super instructors on internet" making the same - Flying to a low risk belt - scanning - waiting the security attacks the ship and then firing a view shot on the target...
o how funny is this....and what a greate gamplay...fireassist fighters....

out there in a cargo vessel. with nothing else then 100 tons of Grain - or a view tons of fresh mined alloys or minerals -
and beeing hunted by Deadly fighters - that came out of ervery nothing - in squads - even in high secured areas - and rips you apart
that is what we find outside your gameplay

and now comes the old tricks and tips :
you can run away you don't must fight

run with a cargovessel against a small fighter?

it sound like you can drive away with a fiat 500 against a Formula one car

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Guys, are you taking part in PowerPlay?