'Attack of the AI' III

[Ziljan]

Made a bug report, did you?

(No, of course not )

That's not a bug. That's: pilot who refused to use proper armor to protect his modules from splash damage/ penetration.

What do people expect? NPCs to fire spitballs and use harsh language?

These are same weapons we can use. If he had loaded "module killers" and used decent Armor then he could have out tanked an FDL ridiculously easily. That is actually what the Python is good at! But only if they spec it properly for battle.

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I have done a great many cargo missions, and I find that as soon as one of them procs the hitman conga line I'll be in for about ten interdictions per system until I get rid of the tainted mission in question, possibly more, if the station is more than 100Ls from the star.

.

What system is this???

10 interdictions per system?? No way. I am getting 2 per 3 hours on average and this is with 5 cargo missions stacked.

I rarely get even the first NPC on the list to spawn, and if he does, he attacks 2 times, and that's it. The 2nd NPC has only spawned once. And they never attacked.

Maybe I'm just too fast in SC?

 

[Mohrgan]

It appears to me that the era of Submit/Boost/Jump and running around trading in D-rated ships is over. Each time I win the Interdiction Mini-game, the NPC's leaves me alone. Every time I defeat the NPC interdicting me in combat, the NPC's leave me alone.

Games change, so we have to change with them.

That is not to say there hasn't been issues with the AI since 1.6/2.1 dropped. There has, and FD have made changes to reflect that fact. Give them credit. We can't use the issues that have been dealt with to insist that every opposition we face is an error FD needs to fix. Some of this stuff is on us.

 

[Lheim]

Once a mission has decided you will be interdicted, nothing will stop an npc popping up on your ass besides destroying it.

It makes a complete mockery of evasive tactics. Again and again it happens, and a lot of times they regenerate completely between teleportations to your backside.

 

[Temberwolf]

Since the 2.1 patch the constant harassment from NPC's is lame. They are going to kill you if you have any cargo, which is lame. Takes 3-4 days of playing to get enough components to get an upgrade, which you have to haul around with you which invites the constant attack of pirates- which are going to kill you--making you lose all of your cargo..    good is that!! And to all you elite GOD's that say it's just fine and "i can do this and I can do that in my sidewinder". And that I just need to " GETGUD" can KMA and call me shorty. I don't give two rat turds about how UBER you are. I am not the best pilot, only average, but I would still like to play. --WE NEED CARGO STORAGE, a bank or something to keep our cargo safe until we need it. End of story

 

[frostypaw]

What system is this???

10 interdictions per system?? No way. I am getting 2 per 3 hours on average and this is with 5 cargo missions stacked.

I rarely get even the first NPC on the list to spawn, and if he does, he attacks 2 times, and that's it. The 2nd NPC has only spawned once. And they never attacked.

Maybe I'm just too fast in SC?

I think it's time the incredulity was holstered and a more productive "this is not how it should be" weapon selected.

In fact part of why this bug's so annoying is I've gone hours without it and then ended up playing leapfrog with an NPC to get to the station because it's not one I wanna fight and each interdiction knocks me back far enough to give him time to re-interdict again and again..... it's just maddening rather than "gameplay" of any kind

And I hope you'll take that from someone who's been loving the new fights!

 

[Zeta Legion]

It appears to me that the era of Submit/Boost/Jump and running around trading in D-rated ships is over. Each time I win the Interdiction Mini-game, the NPC's leaves me alone. Every time I defeat the NPC interdicting me in combat, the NPC's leave me alone.

Games change, so we have to change with them.

That is not to say there hasn't been issues with the AI since 1.6/2.1 dropped. There has, and FD have made changes to reflect that fact. Give them credit. We can't use the issues that have been dealt with to insist that every opposition we face is an error FD needs to fix. Some of this stuff is on us.

Submit/Boost/Jump has worked flawlessly every time I have done it since the patch. And unfortunately it seems to be the only thing that does; good luck dodging the interdiction outright when the AI spawns directly on your six in SC, and good luck winning the minigame. Maybe your experience has been better, but while I find breaking the police interdictions to be in the realm of possibility evading pirates simply isn't in the cards. Once you drop out, fighting them off is simply impossible unless you are running a solid combat fit. The problem is of course, most proper trade ships (cutter, T-9) are horrid at fighting, and setting them up for it compromises their maximum haulage too much to be worth the hassle and even if you could win the fight will slow you down more than gritting your teeth and dealing with the relentless interdiction spam. The only other tactic that works worth a damn is hovering in front of the star, but sometimes the AI pirate spawns quite far away and you'll be hanging there for a while. Better have a bunch of HSLs ready.

There's just no good solution so far, only bad ones that waste your time.

What system is this???

10 interdictions per system?? No way. I am getting 2 per 3 hours on average and this is with 5 cargo missions stacked.

I rarely get even the first NPC on the list to spawn, and if he does, he attacks 2 times, and that's it. The 2nd NPC has only spawned once. And they never attacked.

Maybe I'm just too fast in SC?

Well, SC speed is universal so...

This was my experience running missions for Sirius out of Procyon, so not exactly a defenseless backwater. Running bulk missions all to a single destination at V711 Tauri I experienced much less, as there was only a single jump involved and thus less opportunities for missions to 'update' to conga line status, and trigger the hitmen to attack. Basically in situations where I'm running missions all over the sector things get very irritating very quickly. If I just do A-B missions or standard trading things seem to be less frustrating, though it still bothers me that there doesn't seem there is anything to be done other than the holy trinity of submit/boost/jump.

Once a mission has decided you will be interdicted, nothing will stop an npc popping up on your ass besides destroying it.

It makes a complete mockery of evasive tactics. Again and again it happens, and a lot of times they regenerate completely between teleportations to your backside.

This is essentially my experience with interdictions, mission-based ones in particular.

 

[ShimEnki]

Made a bug report, did you?

(No, of course not )

Its quite enough that Im a paying post release beta player (as we all are for the development of this 5 or 10 yr plan) and taking the time to post here, like really?

 

[frostypaw]

Its quite enough that Im a paying post release beta player (as we all are for the development of this 5 or 10 yr plan) and taking the time to post here, like really?

Not really, no.

 

[Mohrgan]

I think it's time the incredulity was holstered and a more productive "this is not how it should be" weapon selected.

In fact part of why this bug's so annoying is I've gone hours without it and then ended up playing leapfrog with an NPC to get to the station because it's not one I wanna fight and each interdiction knocks me back far enough to give him time to re-interdict again and again..... it's just maddening rather than "gameplay" of any kind

And I hope you'll take that from someone who's been loving the new fights!

Have you tried winning the interdiction mini-game? When I started fighting the interdiction, winning seems pretty final. I haven't had to face a second attempt since.

I like to consider myself as a considerate, compassionate Commander. I defended players complaining about the AI's abhorrent behavior, when many said get good. Now I'm just saying; be reasonable. I just think we have to meet FD in the middle here. A constant complaint has been raised about the previous state of the AI. A persistent foe is not unrealistic. If you want done with them, beat them, either in the mini-game, or in combat.

 

[Zeta Legion]

Have you tried winning the interdiction mini-game? When I started fighting the interdiction, winning seems pretty final. I haven't had to face a second attempt since.

I like to consider myself as a considerate, compassionate Commander. I defended players complaining about the AI's abhorrent behavior, when many said get good. Now I'm just saying; be reasonable. I just think we have to meet FD in the middle here. A constant complaint has been raised about the previous state of the AI. A persistent foe is not unrealistic. If you want done with them, beat them, either in the mini-game, or in combat.

Just out of curiosity what ship are you being interdicted in?

Edit: And for completeness' sake, what kind of NPCs (class, rank, ship) are doing the interdicting?

 

[Ziljan]

Submit/Boost/Jump has worked flawlessly every time I have done it since the patch. And unfortunately it seems to be the only thing that does; good luck dodging the interdiction outright when the AI spawns directly on your six in SC, and good luck winning the minigame. Maybe your experience has been better, but while I find breaking the police interdictions to be in the realm of possibility evading pirates simply isn't in the cards. Once you drop out, fighting them off is simply impossible unless you are running a solid combat fit. The problem is of course, most proper trade ships (cutter, T-9) are horrid at fighting, and setting them up for it compromises their maximum haulage too much to be worth the hassle and even if you could win the fight will slow you down more than gritting your teeth and dealing with the relentless interdiction spam. The only other tactic that works worth a damn is hovering in front of the star, but sometimes the AI pirate spawns quite far away and you'll be hanging there for a while. Better have a bunch of HSLs ready.

There's just no good solution so far, only bad ones that waste your time.



Well, SC speed is universal so...

This was my experience running missions for Sirius out of Procyon, so not exactly a defenseless backwater. Running bulk missions all to a single destination at V711 Tauri I experienced much less, as there was only a single jump involved and thus less opportunities for missions to 'update' to conga line status, and trigger the hitmen to attack. Basically in situations where I'm running missions all over the sector things get very irritating very quickly. If I just do A-B missions or standard trading things seem to be less frustrating, though it still bothers me that there doesn't seem there is anything to be done other than the holy trinity of submit/boost/jump.



This is essentially my experience with interdictions, mission-based ones in particular.

Speed is not equal, because it's based on throttle, and start time. Not everyone goes full throttle or knows how to use gravity wells as brakes. I regularly beat human players and NPCs to their destination, even when they have a head start. Often get asked how/why I am so fast, how do I not overshoot.

Answer: shortest distance is not a straight line.

NPCs give a verbal warning, which gives you the chance to realign your ship.

I suspect that being allied to a minor faction also reduces your interdiction rates in a given system, and increases your protection. Try developing a good relationship.

 

[myrr mac]

Go to high sec. Wait in SC with a ship made of pure gold - sans mission. Keep waiting. Call me back in 3 hours.

Slight exaggeration? Sure. But hyperbole seems necessary these days just to make a point.

Even with stacked cargo missions, I was only interdicted 2 times last night in 3 hours of playing. In my shieldless Asp no less! That is not an exaggeration. I can't get interdicted to save my life.

You know my group set out to make a swath of safe space for Explorers to dock without issues. But it seems our BGS manipulations have made our area way too dull and safe now too.

File a bug report.

Clearly you arent playing the same game as many of us are.

Perhaps something really is going on, we are after all not playing a client-server game. Its extremely easy to manipulate this game due to that, and could also mean its less stable / consistent accross systems. Game devs have been known to make absolutely baffling design choices even in recent years such as locking game logic to framerate and such (fallout 4, just one example of many brainfarts).

Its funny how you assume everyone else is spouting hyperbole.

 

[Queex]

Have you tried winning the interdiction mini-game? When I started fighting the interdiction, winning seems pretty final.

When it's not bugged. When the target vector flickers, success is not possible.
Against the tougher NPCs, it doesn't seem like winning is possible anyway. you can be dead on target for seconds at a time and see no change in the meter.

 

[Lheim]

Yeah, there's no use denying buggy interdictions aren't still a thing. In addition to the tuning they got a few patches back to be more generally difficult.

Hell, the mega-scripted, deterministic interdictions are an OLD, old issue. They aren't terribly new, they're just far more worrysome now that the option, unless you're in a combat-fit combat ship, are 'run away or die'.

 

[HBK]

Have you tried winning the interdiction mini-game?

It's unwinnable (since 1.4 I believe? it was winnable before). Sometimes it glitches, but that's it. Right now unless you're in an eagle getting interdicted by a conda maybe you just can't win the interdiction battle. To be fair successfully interdicting is also somewhat easy, so there's that (even if achieving a successful interdiction require some hard work and puts you in an emergency drop spin of death afterwards, but successfully interdicting is more than doable).

 

[Jasper c]

What a shame, a great space simulator like Elite Dangerous has become unplayable! Sorry, It's probably payable if your an Elite bounty hunter, but to the normal Trader, Explorer or Miner the game is just not fun anymore.
Let me explain, I am not a 'gunslinger', I'm a trader and explorer.When I get jumped on (notice I said when I get jumped on, because it now seems inevitable that I will be dragged out of hyper space), then I will also be blown out of the sky.
Even though the NPC super guns have been fixed, the new AI means that death is guaranteed.
Don't get me wrong, I've been playing the game for 9 months, I've had my fair share of fights and it's not like I'm flying an old-tin-can, I have a Python with 2 beam lasers, 1 pulse laser, 2 fragment canons, military grade hull and all 'A' upgrades. All of which are no help when you've been dragged out of Hyperspace, had your Frame Shift Drive restricted by a large factor so you can't escape and you just can't shake off the NPC on your tail because they either 'elite' or 'master' and their rapid fire weapons are ripping through your shields and hull.
The game has been turned into a 'shoot-em-up', at the expense of everyone else.
I'm very disappointed in the direction this game has gone.
I have enjoyed myself for the last 9 months exploring and trading, there's always been that 'grind' to the game where you took 2 steps forward and 1 step back, but now it's like taking 1 step forward and 3 steps back.

 

[Zeta Legion]

NPCs give a verbal warning, which gives you the chance to realign your ship.

I suspect that being allied to a minor faction also reduces your interdiction rates in a given system, and increases your protection. Try developing a good relationship.

Often the pirate broadcasts his message before spawning, or simply spawns near a planet that is out of sensor range and their vector isn't apparent until too late. I have been dragged into the star too many times to count by NPCs that spawn directly behind me as soon as I jump in-system, so no chance of evading the interdiction or winning it.

This is all despite forming the habit of camping in front of the star waiting for them to try to circle behind me and dropping out in the body exclusion zone.

I've got over 1k hours into the game by now, I know how interdictions are supposed to work. Unfortunately the AI seems to bend or break the rules with baffling frequency.

Edit:

I'd like to add that being dragged INSIDE the physical model of the star by these clowns, even if I know I'll spawn inside the body exclusion zone and not inside the fusion core, is still a heart-attack inducing experience. I wonder what would happen if this triggered near a neutron star?

 

[Mohrgan]

Just out of curiosity what ship are you being interdicted in?

Edit: And for completeness' sake, what kind of NPCs (class, rank, ship) are doing the interdicting?

I fly either an FdL, or a Python, both A-rated and fit to defend myself, depending on what tasks I'm doing. Since I've started to actively fight the interdictions I've faced a number of opponents. It is impossible for me to recount each and every encounter but I have faced a range between an Elite Vulture, a Master FAS, to a competent 'Conda.

I used to just submit, and fight what ever tried me. Now, upon interdiction, I hit my 'Target Highest Threat' key. Have a look at what is after me and decide what to do, while fending off the interdiction.

 

[Ziljan]

File a bug report.

Clearly you arent playing the same game as many of us are.

Perhaps something really is going on, we are after all not playing a client-server game. Its extremely easy to manipulate this game due to that, and could also mean its less stable / consistent accross systems. Game devs have been known to make absolutely baffling design choices even in recent years such as locking game logic to framerate and such (fallout 4, just one example of many brainfarts).

Its funny how you assume everyone else is spouting hyperbole.

I am suspecting now that's it's not a bug, but rather in part due to being allied with the minor factions, having a lower cost ship, and being in high sec. All creating a perfect soup for unchallenging spawns.

When I fly farther away from my home systems, I get slightly more challenging spawns.

Hyperbole? Well, what else can I suspect when they also report being blown to bits in their Python, meanwhile my Shieldless Asp is tanking missles and railguns just fine when I'm partially afk, and alt-tabbing?

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
NPCs give a verbal warning, which gives you the chance to realign your ship.
…

Only "random" NPCs announce their intentions - often way to long before they can interdict.
NPCs that get spawned as a side mission event - those that spawn after the "mission critical update" information that could be someone is going after you or a finish mission in x minutes - spawn directly behind me and instantly interdict me. Absolutely no time, chance or option to realign my ship.

Maybe it's a bug, I stopped caring about it.