Automation and Scripting - An investigation into further abuses of BGS and Powerplay

[CaptainKirby]

So, it has been established botting is happening.
We have plausible reasons for why, and there is certainly precedent for humans going to great lengths to cheat in competitive games.
And the last few pages seem to have been unravelling some of the possible hows.
We've even had postings indicating sites that tell us where we can get the scripting help.

Does anyone still have any doubts that this botting represents a serious problem?

So, the only question that remains is, "How serious a problem?"
I contend that this sort of botting will end meaningful human involvement in the BGS and Power Play. Some think that is somewhat hyperbolic, but if a bot can move many times as much goods in BGS, and papers in PP as will make player player actions irrelevant, then I think there is quite a reasonable argument to reach the conclusion I have. If these game modes are to be at all meaningful for human players, then the bots must be dealt with.

Now, many players don't care about the BGS or Power Play. Fair enough. It is your choice what you want to participate in in the game, but there are players who want to participate in BGS and/or Power Play. Clearly, FDev intended these game functions to be available for the players (at least Power Play - arguably, for BGS).

So either FDev makes bots available for everyone to use or for no one. The cats out; there is no going back now.

So, FDev. What are you going to do about this rising problem? Whatever it is, best act soon ...

This sharp summary says it all. FDev's response will decide over the future of two of the three biggest gameplay parts people were playing together (with PvP being the third). I'll make sure to watch the reaction closely.

 

[Stigbob]

So, it has been established botting is happening.
We have plausible reasons for why, and there is certainly precedent for humans going to great lengths to cheat in competitive games.
And the last few pages seem to have been unravelling some of the possible hows.
We've even had postings indicating sites that tell us where we can get the scripting help.

Does anyone still have any doubts that this botting represents a serious problem?

So, the only question that remains is, "How serious a problem?"
I contend that this sort of botting will end meaningful human involvement in the BGS and Power Play. Some think that is somewhat hyperbolic, but if a bot can move many times as much goods in BGS, and papers in PP as will make player player actions irrelevant, then I think there is quite a reasonable argument to reach the conclusion I have. If these game modes are to be at all meaningful for human players, then the bots must be dealt with.

Now, many players don't care about the BGS or Power Play. Fair enough. It is your choice what you want to participate in in the game, but there are players who want to participate in BGS and/or Power Play. Clearly, FDev intended these game functions to be available for the players (at least Power Play - arguably, for BGS).

So either FDev makes bots available for everyone to use or for no one. The cats out; there is no going back now.

So, FDev. What are you going to do about this rising problem? Whatever it is, best act soon ...

Problem yes, serious is debatable though.

FDEV just need to perma-ban the botting accounts on detection, this is the third wave according to the OP the first two were dealt with via 30 day shadow-bans which obviously hasn't worked (surprise surprise). They just need to man up and go for perma-bans, make botting cost both time and money through replacement accounts and account progress.

 

[CMDR Tom D]

the first two were dealt with via 30 day shadow-bans

No 2 of the 6 were perma banned, the other 4 were shadow banned and the scripters bought multiple other accounts following the loss of their two.

They most likely sured up their scripts to avoid possible detections so FDev are finding it harder and harder to detect them without our observations we suspect.

 

[Stigbob]

No 2 of the 6 were perma banned, the other 4 were shadow banned and the scripters bought multiple other accounts following the loss of their two.

They most likely sured up their scripts to avoid possible detections so FDev are finding it harder and harder to detect them without our observations we suspect.

FDEV will always be one step behind, the perma's are good news. They just need to start using that as the default position.

 

[bitstorm]

I know you're all very clever and all that, but could we leave the instruction manual style, how to hack ED comments out of this thread.

Just don't see the point unless you're trying to encourage folk to write bots.

 

[CaptainKirby]

I know you're all very clever and all that, but could we leave the instruction manual style, how to hack ED comments out of this thread.

Just don't see the point unless you're trying to encourage folk to write bots.

At least that would level the playing field a bit. And it'd force FDev to do something about it. But I trust them to acknowledge the severity of this issue anyway.

 

[Schmack]

Cops go after people not involved in powerplay. Nothing wrong in powerplay with stopping your enemies even if its a trader.

You call it salt. I call it balanced gameplay.

Shenanigans disguised as gameplay tbh

It's amazing how many people never actually engage in the task at hand, but want to use the "resisting" mantra as a camouflage for their griefing. "I'm station ramming to protest stations!"

 

[ilo]

At least that would level the playing field a bit. And it'd force FDev to do something about it. But I trust them to acknowledge the severity of this issue anyway.

That rationale is totally irresponsible. Lets kill some people for the police to realise guns are bad, meh

 

[Deleted member 38366]

No 2 of the 6 were perma banned, the other 4 were shadow banned and the scripters bought multiple other accounts following the loss of their two.

They most likely sured up their scripts to avoid possible detections so FDev are finding it harder and harder to detect them without our observations we suspect.

I guess that explains why I saw an unshielded Python CMDR ranked "Harmless" (which disconnected as soon as I transmitted a friendly "o7" while we were both docked at a remote Outpost) during a quick visit to a suspicious System...

PS.
IMHO any Account (= the Owner - even if it's multiple Accounts bought by the same person) found cheating that way shouldn't be just shadow-banned.
Send them straight back into a Sidey and I mean all of their Accounts. And should they do it a 2nd time, ban them for a time that really hurts, no questions asked.

 

[Stigbob]

I guess that explains why I saw an unshielded Python CMDR ranked "Harmless" (which disconnected as soon as I transmitted a friendly "o7" while we were both docked at a remote Outpost) during a quick visit to a suspicious System...

PS.
IMHO any Account (= the Owner - even if it's multiple Accounts bought by the same person) found cheating that way shouldn't be just shadow-banned.
Send them straight back into a Sidey an I mean all of their Accounts. And should they do it a 2nd time, ban them for a time that really hurts, no questions asked.

It should be a permaban across all accounts either complete or perpetually to the shadow-server.

If you put them into a sidey they just need to kill steal from the space cops for half an hour, buy a type six and then set the bot running trade to raise funds for an anaconda and it's right back to square one.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I find meta boring. This just underlines this.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

I know you're all very clever and all that, but could we leave the instruction manual style, how to hack ED comments out of this thread.

Just don't see the point unless you're trying to encourage folk to write bots.

Highlighting the issue and providing some detail of how bots work informs the general player base which may make FDev more likely to take preventative action. I see no up-side to hiding this info. You think sweeping it under the carpet and pretending it's not there is the best way forward?

As previous posters have said, the cat's out of the bag now and to make a level playing field either bots should be made available for everyone or no one. Let's hope FDev responds to the OP and other posters here.

 

[bitstorm]

Highlighting the issue and providing some detail of how bots work informs the general player base which may make FDev more likely to take preventative action. I see no up-side to hiding this info. You think sweeping it under the carpet and pretending it's not there is the best way forward?

Nobody is sweeping anything under the carpet, have you seen this 31 page thread.

I'm talking about outlining all the details about how to write a bot with libs and tricks on how you solve various problems.

I just don't see it's very helpful unless we are trying to make it really straight forward for folk to have a go at writing a bot.

As previous posters have said, the cat's out of the bag now and to make a level playing field either bots should be made available for everyone or no one. Let's hope FDev responds to the OP and other posters here.

Well if this is your motivation I'd point out botting ED is against the ToS. Frontier would probably take a dim view of encouraging folk to bot ED.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Nobody is sweeping anything under the carpet, have you seen this 31 page thread.

I'm talking about outlining all the details about how to write a bot with libs and tricks on how you solve various problems.

I just don't see it's very helpful unless we are trying to encourage people to have a go at writing bots.

This process is very similar to what happens for other software when for example a white hat informs a publisher privately of a serious exploit. The white hat may give them enough time to respond and release a bug fix update. If the publisher chooses not to take adequate action, leaving end users at risk, the white hat may choose to publish enough of the hack detail to force the publisher to take action.

Seems like many parallels here. OP does research and privately tells FDev of the cheat many months ago, but goes public when the cheat continues. Other users are revealing more detail of the cheat to encourage FDev action.

 

[W4rSkuLL]

OMG the Powerplay bible. Did you find out what they ate and drank in that period to Bots in powerplay, well ive seen it in WOW, why not in a galaxy in constant conflict. Amazing research though, keep it coming.

STOP SELLING THE GAME FOR £5! This is fueling the epidemic!

Yes, ED is an epidemic. Success achieved

I think Frontier has something big in store for us soon

 

[bitstorm]

This process is very similar to what happens for other software when for example a white hat informs a publisher privately of a serious exploit. The white hat may give them enough time to respond and release a bug fix update. If the publisher chooses not to take adequate action, leaving end users at risk, the white hat may choose to publish enough of the hack detail to force the publisher to take action.

Seems like many parallels here. OP does research and privately tells FDev of the cheat many months ago, but goes public when the cheat continues. Other users are revealing more detail of the cheat to encourage FDev action.

Not sure how else to say it.

Nobody is trying to sweep anything under the carpet, it is a good thing players are made aware.

I just don't see that we need full instructions on how to bot ED posting on the forum.

I do not think it adds anything unless the goal is to encourage folk to write bots.

No it is not the same as providing a company a window to fix their exploit, because players cannot exert any control over solo/pg or the game code on another person's computer. Whereas with an OS exploit the user is able to take action dependent on the details of the exploit.

 

[Red Anders]

It should be a permaban across all accounts either complete or perpetually to the shadow-server.

Never understood this love of the shadow server that seems to infect FDev's punishment policy. I mean seriously, get caught botting and you should be out of the door.

'Oh but they can't affect the BGS on the shadow server!' Great. Pretty sure they can't affect the BGS with a permaban either.

Frankly, you could set them on fire for all I care.

*shrugs*

 

[Stigbob]

Never understood this love of the shadow server that seems to infect FDev's punishment policy. I mean seriously, get caught botting and you should be out of the door.

'Oh but they can't affect the BGS on the shadow server!' Great. Pretty sure they can't affect the BGS with a permaban either.

Frankly, you could set them on fire for all I care.

*shrugs*

If it was up to me they'd be perma-banning all the cheats, why should I be forced to play alongside cheats (something I never knowingly do) just because FDEV are a bit wet.

However as I understand it there can be issues in the EU with restricting customers access to a product they purchased. If you simply dump them into the naughty server where nothing they do effects anything or anyone else, then you elegantly sidestep having to waste any time or effort on arguing about any of that.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Laws are pretty protective of customers in EU and UK (UK laws are even more protective). In nutshell shadow ban is best they can do if they are suspicious. Getting 100% detection however is hard. Cheats are easier, because they mostly involve tampering with memory and thus such actions are easier to detect.

 

[Slopey]

Just a word of warning to everyone - the original premise of this post is fine (i.e. suspicious player activity).

However, discussion on how to make a bot, or methods involved with scripting/pattern recognition and other bot related tasks in this context is not. Lets not have this descend into a how to make a bot thread - those who would be able to do so will already be aware of the techniques which are against the T&C.

Ta