Balancing of NPC piracy

I do love bump-stopping. I've refined it to the point of where I don't bump. I position and reduce relative velocity to zero, press up against their hull, and then apply thruster. I can easily bleed 200mps off a drifting mark that way...

Nevertheless, a grappling module would be sensible, or even better... a retro-thruster limpet and associated controller. Make it so that kind of limpet can only be used on a target with disabled drives.

Anyhow... back to the economics of this...

Are we still at the vague stage with regards to knowing what good systems are besides Industrial/Boom?
 
Are we still at the vague stage with regards to knowing what good systems are besides Industrial/Boom?
That was done over 6 months ago on reddit... All of them but industrial gave trade junk when you exclude the RNG drop of LTD that is by default set to a low chance in the wrong system any way...

The user above that got platinum wont confirm the system so wont give the population count... Which has to be highish to spawn LTD miner ships...
Gold is a trade item so shows up in High tech systems by default any way...
Only getting painite/platinum is new...
 
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That was done over 6 months ago on reddit... All of them but industrial gave trade junk when you exclude the RNG drop of LTD that is by default set to a low chance in the wrong system any way...

I'd say it's not finished because a pattern of conditions and subsequent results hasn't been established.
Piracy is very much in the dark atm...
 
Contributions are welcome ...

There really needs to be a comprehensive and organized testing paradigm. First, an observational dataset needs to be created.

System: Economy, State, Planetary Ring(s) y/n, Types, Hotspots.
------------Factions: Asset, Economy, State.
----------------------------------Mark (Type): Faction, Cargo.

The scope is significant.

What other data would need to be captured you think?

I wonder if there's a correlation between hotspots and haulage...
 
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Wouldn't it be great if when you attack another ship, say a trade ship, it asks you "What do you want" and you reply "Drop 100 units of Fish* and I'll let you live. You decide". *50% of contents of most expensive commodity.

Of course, randomly the trade ship will try and make a getaway or call the cops in which case do it the usual way. Wrinkles/choice are nice.

If we could threaten them via comms, then it wouldn't be so much effort / skill / time for not much money. NPC can speak to us, but we are mute. Why?

It should be possible to pirate as a beginner. Without even a hatch breaker - just a scoop and some lasers. Plenty of Harmless NPC pirates around.
 
Wouldn't it be great if when you attack another ship, say a trade ship, it asks you "What do you want" and you reply "Drop 100 units of Fish* and I'll let you live. You decide". *50% of contents of most expensive commodity.

Of course, randomly the trade ship will try and make a getaway or call the cops in which case do it the usual way. Wrinkles/choice are nice.

If we could threaten them via comms, then it wouldn't be so much effort / skill / time for not much money. NPC can speak to us, but we are mute. Why?

It should be possible to pirate as a beginner. Without even a hatch breaker - just a scoop and some lasers. Plenty of Harmless NPC pirates around.
Yup. Expansion of the "Contact" panel is sorely needed, and the way it it now it's as if FD expect to do this some day soon, but for some reason haven't.

Other things could affect the successful outcome of a target dropping cargo on demand too
  • How damaged the target is
  • Your combat rank
  • Your rep relative to their faction (lower = better)

There could be a few different piracy options too, things too like "Drop 25%, 50%, 100%" each levying different requirements.

WRT people asking about grapples... before asking for a grapple, I'd be asking "What's the counter to the grapple?", since this would be employable against players too.

Simply shooting the grappling ship is out; no trading ship would ever survive that sort of encounter.
Boosting away to overcome some tensile force? Maybe, but it would have to be a thrusters-vs-HP affair, not a "exceed X speed" case, simply because the latter would be an all-or-nothing affair again, while the HP one could have different grades/sizes of grapple with different strengths or quantities of grapple. Personally, I'd have the ammunition not exceed, say... Class 1 - 1 grapple, Class 3 - 2 Grapples... up to class 7 - 4 Grapples, with B rate granting one extra grapple for all classes, A rate the strongest grapples, D rate the weakest but lightest.

Would there be anything to counter a successful grapple from occurring? I'd suggest there should be, for depth of fitting requirements for traders. NFI what that would look like (PDT seems like a cop out) but feels like it should be.

I just mention this because I think most thought has not gone beyond "we need a grapple to stop ships" and just assume that once it's done, it's done. Other considerations like "Once the grapple is engaged, the attacking ship can't fire weapons without damaging the grapple" could be given too, which offer traders in PvP a level of assurance they won't be destroyed by a grappling ship (though, it's compatriots could be another question I guess).
 
I just mention this because I think most thought has not gone beyond "we need a grapple to stop ships" and just assume that once it's done, it's done.

I think you missed that quite a few folks had mentioned that the use of grappling hooks or retro-rocket limpets for slowing the ship down would be contingent upon the mark's drives already being disabled.
 
I think you missed that quite a few folks had mentioned that the use of grappling hooks or retro-rocket limpets for slowing the ship down would be contingent upon the mark's drives already being disabled.
No, i saw those posts, and they're good. But that doesn't preclude some of the less insightful requests :)

I think it would be a little naff to disallow grappling mobile ships though. It would be really cool seeing a ship do a spin to get velocity in the right direction to reengage sc.
 
I reckon the grapple is the least important thing here and most likely would require the most work at FDev side (the grapple, the counter-grapple, new mechanics, new graphics, influence on PvP and probably many more).

Instead, I'd love to see changes that seem to be pretty easy to implement, like more variety in trading/mining ships and creating a dependency between the value of the ship and the difficulty level while robbing (expensive cargo = high rank pilots, good guns, good shields, point defence, wingmates). IMHO such changes would immediately make PvE piracy much more fun, engaging and rewarding, even if harder than it's now.
 
I reckon the grapple is the least important thing here and most likely would require the most work at FDev side (the grapple, the counter-grapple, new mechanics, new graphics, influence on PvP and probably many more).

Instead, I'd love to see changes that seem to be pretty easy to implement, like more variety in trading/mining ships and creating a dependency between the value of the ship and the difficulty level while robbing (expensive cargo = high rank pilots, good guns, good shields, point defence, wingmates). IMHO such changes would immediately make PvE piracy much more fun, engaging and rewarding, even if harder than it's now.
And, well, actual expensive cargo XD
 
There really needs to be a comprehensive and organized testing paradigm. First, an observational dataset needs to be created.

System: Economy, State, Planetary Ring(s) y/n, Types, Hotspots.
------------Factions: Asset, Economy, State.
----------------------------------Mark (Type): Faction, Cargo.

The scope is significant.

What other data would need to be captured you think?

I wonder if there's a correlation between hotspots and haulage...

Back to this though^^^, which I think is more in line with the intent of the thread, grappling guns notwithstanding, if we can't figure out a way to systematically locate marks none of it is much good. :)

(I see spreadsheets in the future...ugh...)
 
There really needs to be a comprehensive and organized testing paradigm. First, an observational dataset needs to be created.

System: Economy, State, Planetary Ring(s) y/n, Types, Hotspots.
------------Factions: Asset, Economy, State.
----------------------------------Mark (Type): Faction, Cargo.

The scope is significant.

What other data would need to be captured you think?

I wonder if there's a correlation between hotspots and haulage...
There was a concerted effort a few months ago, organized by greyporter on Reddit. That was where a lot of current knowledge came from.
 
Back to this though^^^, which I think is more in line with the intent of the thread, grappling guns notwithstanding, if we can't figure out a way to systematically locate marks none of it is much good. :)

(I see spreadsheets in the future...ugh...)
This has already been done.

The way it works is that a pool of goods is created based on the type of minerals that you could mine in the rings/belts in the system and the commodities consumed by each station/outpost in the system. Then a random selection is picked for each miner spawned in the system.

The one exception to this is the Industrial economy, which is very heavily weighted in favour of LTDs

This is why most people go for industrial and no rings formula for LTDs, which is close enough.

As for spreadsheets, here is one of data extracted from eddb.io. The system states are out of date, and some don't match because the data in eddb is incorrect, but it's as close as I can get. It's been in use since we worked out the formula change after fleet carriers came in and works
 
This has already been done.

The way it works is that a pool of goods is created based on the type of minerals that you could mine in the rings/belts in the system and the commodities consumed by each station/outpost in the system. Then a random selection is picked for each miner spawned in the system.

The one exception to this is the Industrial economy, which is very heavily weighted in favour of LTDs

This is why most people go for industrial and no rings formula for LTDs, which is close enough.

As for spreadsheets, here is one of data extracted from eddb.io. The system states are out of date, and some don't match because the data in eddb is incorrect, but it's as close as I can get. It's been in use since we worked out the formula change after fleet carriers came in and works
In fact the main theme of this thread was to suggest modifications to said weighting so that they would spawn not just LTDs but a selection of high value stuff, and further up there are reports of finding platinum now, so maybe fdev has listened lol.
 
In fact the main theme of this thread was to suggest modifications to said weighting so that they would spawn not just LTDs but a selection of high value stuff, and further up there are reports of finding platinum now, so maybe fdev has listened lol.
I agree, my post was directed to the comments that the way things work currently isn't understood.

In addition, it is possible to find other high value commodities, just not very often. Any system where you could find them would also have a lot more ships with cheap garbage

I should also mention that the criteria I mentioned relates to interdicting miners in supercruise. There is some good evidence that you can find ships with LTDs at industrial stations/outposts

The post about finding platinum, if I read it right, the player found 1 ship. This is totally possible with the rules I described, it just won't happen often
 
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I agree, my post was directed to the comments that the way things work currently isn't understood.

In addition, it is possible to find other high value commodities, just not very often. Any system where you could find them would also have a lot more ships with cheap garbage

I should also mention that the criteria I mentioned relates to interdicting miners in supercruise. There is some good evidence that you can find ships with LTDs at industrial stations/outposts

The post about finding platinum, if I read it right, the player found 1 ship. This is totally possible with the rules I described, it just won't happen often
Could be wishful thinking on my part then :-(
 
Wouldn't it be great if when you attack another ship, say a trade ship, it asks you "What do you want" and you reply "Drop 100 units of Fish* and I'll let you live. You decide". *50% of contents of most expensive commodity.

Of course, randomly the trade ship will try and make a getaway or call the cops in which case do it the usual way. Wrinkles/choice are nice.

If we could threaten them via comms, then it wouldn't be so much effort / skill / time for not much money. NPC can speak to us, but we are mute. Why?

It should be possible to pirate as a beginner. Without even a hatch breaker - just a scoop and some lasers. Plenty of Harmless NPC pirates around.
I'd love this if the manifest scanner let you select items from their cargo and, similar to the jettison/abandon menu, demand a certain amount.
 
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