Basic question about ED is it MMO or Co-op single player.
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Goose4291
Banned
I think its always just been more a case of 'excrement happens' when it comes to that.
That said, its optimised to run on a 56k dial up connect and engagements are generally at range so it probably isnt that noticeable, even when you've got a company+ strength of players running around
That's because GW1 uses servers that handle the connectivity; just like WoW, just like GW2, just like ESO.
I don't know how to explain what I mean to be honest.
MMO's use a Client/Server architecture for everything.
ED uses a Client/Server architecture for data (BGS) and match-making, but when sharing an instance with another player then it's handled by the Client, not the Server.
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I'd say more a coop single player than an mmo
Obviously not all of them.
I am not trying to win an argument that I have already won, i was voicing my opinion. As stated ED already has a crafting section which is at the end of the day the same basic mechanics as any other crafting feature out there. So now that we know ED has player made content in your eyes, is it an MMO.
There are games that give you tools to create levels and so forth for other people to enjoy. I call that player made content. Emergent gameplay from player interaction I call player made content. Crafting a sword does not add content that isn't already there IMO.
I would say you get far more emergent gameplay in ED then anything like LOTRO or WoW, so I would say that ED has far more player made content then any themepark MMO.
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A rare few don't, but then I don't see them as MMO's; for me it's really simple .. "massive multiplayer" - if it can't handle "massive" it's not an MMO by definition of it's very name. 64 players is not massive. It may be MO, multiplayer online, but I can't call it an MMO.
Wish I could, ED eeeally needs to host the instances .. I eally want to see, for example, hundreds of Cmdr's milling about outside a station in honour of someone, or hundreds of Cmdr's fighting in a single CZ, or hundreds of Cmdrs going to war with hundreds of pirates .. basically, "massive multiplayer" experience that ED cannot do.
Makes me curious how they're going to handle space-legs and stations as social hubs when that day comes .. I worry it'll be a similar experience to Wings.
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Stick what ever label you want on it. It doesn't change anything.
After a year of playing this game, and trying open and PG on a limited basis, I've decided that I have zero use for real people in my PC games.
I will say that I do like playing this game however, but in solo only. Anything else is just noise.
Any new games in my future will absolutely have to have a off-line single-player mode, or they won't be getting my money.
After a year of playing this game, and trying open and PG on a limited basis, I've decided that I have zero use for real people in my PC games.
I will say that I do like playing this game however, but in solo only. Anything else is just noise.
Any new games in my future will absolutely have to have a off-line single-player mode, or they won't be getting my money.
I think people often get hung up on certain features defining an MMO, for example "guilds" as being some sort of prerequisite. Maybe sqaudrons will check that box for some people. Doesn't make it more of an MMO though, being an MMO is not contingent on the existence of guild like mechanics. This doesn't mean ED is not an MMO.
Some people get hung up on how many players you can meet at a single time, which is also a bit of flawed thinking. Look at some MMOs when it comes to how many people you can meet and how they work. Games like WoW for example have low network overheard. In towns, yeah, you can see lots of people, dozens sometimes. (most of them sitting around spouting rubbish). On raids how many do you usually see? You and your mates, perhaps encoutner another party. On big raids how many, tens? But the network overheads for a game like WoW are pretty low, and you can use some funky tricks to smooth out the networking overhead. There is a rather good article on Age of Empires about some of the tricks they used to get that working well over the internet with the high latency of the times using tricks to provide a good experience. I'm sure some of those same tricks are being used in games like WoW. Then you get games like EvE, where they handle high load by slowing the whole game down. Not something that can be done in ED. There are instance limits due to the nature of the beast, and even C/S based games can struggle once you start piling on the players. This is why many arena FPS limit the number of players to ensure good performance, and even then, you get people lagging out and often you play on regional servers. In ED i can meet players from all around the world, unlike some games, where to meet players from other parts of the world unles i join their regional servers, and suffer higher pings for my troubles and am at a disadvantage. Even the newer generation of arena games like PUBG are not immune, and notice, you don't really interact with more than a few people at any time. I've played some Fortnite recently, and once you are out of the plane, you usually meet only a few people at once. And you can still lag out. In ED we have seen up to 100 people in an instance (which was flakey), but it means that ED is up there in terms of people in a single instance, even if it isn't the norm. So, number of people in an instance can't really disqualify it either.
Some people get hung up on modes, saying a proper MMO shouldn't have modes. Don't see how that disqualifies it either. We share a common galaxy and can choose to play together or separate. Some MMOs allow private servers (Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2), some MMOs have offical PvP and PvE servers. People say ED's modes fragment the playerbase, that's nothing compared to the fragmentation that occurs when you allow private servers or separate official servers. Hell, the bigger MMOs have dozens of official servers where you can only meet people on your server!
Some people get hung up on P2P rather than C/S. Again, the phrase MMO is not contingent on the network architecture used. There are even some bonuses to FD's hybrid system that is used. For example, the ping between any two participants is identical. If one person is lagging in the eyes of one, then the reverse also applies. Unlike with C/S, a non lagging person has an advantage over someone who is lagging. In ED, everyone is equal in relation to each other. The matchmaking server does its best to try and not put people with bad pings in the same instance, but doesn't always get it right. Anyway, it still doesn't disqualify it as an MMO.
Overall though, at the end of the day, its just a label. ED is a game, which you either enjoy or do not. The label used is just a label. I enjoy single player games.... which are not MMOs. Does that mean they are not good games because they are not MMOs? Of course not. All that matters is the game.
Some people get hung up on how many players you can meet at a single time, which is also a bit of flawed thinking. Look at some MMOs when it comes to how many people you can meet and how they work. Games like WoW for example have low network overheard. In towns, yeah, you can see lots of people, dozens sometimes. (most of them sitting around spouting rubbish). On raids how many do you usually see? You and your mates, perhaps encoutner another party. On big raids how many, tens? But the network overheads for a game like WoW are pretty low, and you can use some funky tricks to smooth out the networking overhead. There is a rather good article on Age of Empires about some of the tricks they used to get that working well over the internet with the high latency of the times using tricks to provide a good experience. I'm sure some of those same tricks are being used in games like WoW. Then you get games like EvE, where they handle high load by slowing the whole game down. Not something that can be done in ED. There are instance limits due to the nature of the beast, and even C/S based games can struggle once you start piling on the players. This is why many arena FPS limit the number of players to ensure good performance, and even then, you get people lagging out and often you play on regional servers. In ED i can meet players from all around the world, unlike some games, where to meet players from other parts of the world unles i join their regional servers, and suffer higher pings for my troubles and am at a disadvantage. Even the newer generation of arena games like PUBG are not immune, and notice, you don't really interact with more than a few people at any time. I've played some Fortnite recently, and once you are out of the plane, you usually meet only a few people at once. And you can still lag out. In ED we have seen up to 100 people in an instance (which was flakey), but it means that ED is up there in terms of people in a single instance, even if it isn't the norm. So, number of people in an instance can't really disqualify it either.
Some people get hung up on modes, saying a proper MMO shouldn't have modes. Don't see how that disqualifies it either. We share a common galaxy and can choose to play together or separate. Some MMOs allow private servers (Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2), some MMOs have offical PvP and PvE servers. People say ED's modes fragment the playerbase, that's nothing compared to the fragmentation that occurs when you allow private servers or separate official servers. Hell, the bigger MMOs have dozens of official servers where you can only meet people on your server!
Some people get hung up on P2P rather than C/S. Again, the phrase MMO is not contingent on the network architecture used. There are even some bonuses to FD's hybrid system that is used. For example, the ping between any two participants is identical. If one person is lagging in the eyes of one, then the reverse also applies. Unlike with C/S, a non lagging person has an advantage over someone who is lagging. In ED, everyone is equal in relation to each other. The matchmaking server does its best to try and not put people with bad pings in the same instance, but doesn't always get it right. Anyway, it still doesn't disqualify it as an MMO.
Overall though, at the end of the day, its just a label. ED is a game, which you either enjoy or do not. The label used is just a label. I enjoy single player games.... which are not MMOs. Does that mean they are not good games because they are not MMOs? Of course not. All that matters is the game.
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Six figures is though, and we influence each other without being directly instanced.
Even if you limit yourself to direct instancing, which I think is silly given how many MMOs that are widely regarded as MMOs that have even more severe instancing limits (Guild Wars and DDO, for example), I can find my 'CommanderHistory' filled with hundreds of CMDR names after a single session in Open at a popular area.
That's exactly what I answer with when they ask me "Paper, or plastic?" at the checkout line...
Hehehe
[video=youtube_share;37Y7CLGGMUo]https://youtu.be/37Y7CLGGMUo[/video]
Goose4291
Banned
You've not won any argument. Both game types have player content. It's just a different flavour, because they're different types of games.
This is why you've not won any argument. I already regarded ED as an MMO. If you reread my initial post, all I said was "but isnt there crafting and a vibrant player market in WoW?". At no point did I say ED wasnt an MMO.
None of which are really usable in a game which has the concept of being an MMO (with the possible exception of ArmA, using something like ALiVE to create a persistent AO which players can drop in/out of, but again, those aren't really even platoon+ strength games due to the stress it puts on the engine).
Even then, you're logic can be applied to shut it down as 'player content'
"Because I don't regard crafting as player made content. So you craft a sword, how is that content. The crafting mechanic is not player made, even the sword is made from predefined materials and stats. There is nothing player made in it. And the sword you create in my eyes doesn't create content. But if that is what you call content, then engineers are exactly the same. There is no real difference apart from some graphics and the name of who does it. All you need to do is change engineer to you and it is no different to WoW or LOTRO."
Becomes
"Because I don't regard mission making/modding as player made content. So you make a mission, how is that content? The game engine is not player made, even the mod is made using a predefined Editing tool, AI, soundfiles and NPCs."
It's a different type of player made content because it's a different type of game.
As would I. The difference is I didn't say it didn't exist.
Except the feature of being massively multiplayer online? Hmm...
And you didn't see a single one of them
I can go for days without seeing anyone in ED.. which defeats the purpose of a game being labeled as an MMO. Given the types of games I grew up with in the online sphere, when I hear MMO .. I expect certain things, one of which is a client/server architecture; in an online game labeled as an MMO, a C/S is paramount for ensuring multiplayer stability and, for the most part, high player volume.
This entire discussion is subjective anyway since the requirements for what is and what is not an MMO keep changing.
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Who said anything about fighting?
The genre sucks. The parts that ED has taken from the standard MMO consept like healing beams, SCBs and premium synth ammo are the worst parts of the game.
I hope FD move away from spells and potions and stay clean scifi in the future.
Just name one instance where you thought, it was good players did XY regarding BGS. What actually changes if faction X or Y is ruling?