Engineers beta player with 1000s of hours, about to uninstall elite!

[rrobes]

The game changes version to version are simply unacceptable. This game is no longer playable for me.

Tonight I got interdicted over a dozen times just trying to explore a populated fed system. I don't want to fight so I flee... Generally I flee whenever I can when I am exploring or trading. Tonight, another NPC python interdicted my A class python (no engineer modifications at all). And somehow, not only, kept up with me while I was trying to boost away. But did so while maintaining near continuous fire on me! My initial boost got me 1000 meters ahead in about 15 seconds (had to pop a shield booster) and I initiated my FSD but had to wait a factor of 17 to initiate. Which makes no sense to me if I am 1000 meters away! Boosting again but then he also appears to be boosting and in less than 10 seconds closed the gap to 200 meters even though I was repeatedly boosting. This python somehow had the speed of a viper! Next thing I noticed my thrusters are gone- and in a few seconds my frame shift drive is gone, both off line! Somehow he destroyed these systems with my shields still up!!! How is that possible in the elite universe? In a few more seconds my shields collapse and that's it... During all of this my power distribution is shields and engines, yet this other python not only closed the gap but it also maintained near continuous fire on me?! These game changes version to version, are so severe and game crippling that I no longer can tolerate it...

There are a certain numbers of players that will defend FD to the end. You see the same names constantly. First blame the pilot, then your equipment, then your tactics, anything but the game mechanics. Your experience is widespread, the number of NPC's with overpowered weapons is not a few, interdicting elite ships, mostly middle size with a few large are not a few, they are in 90% of the interdictors.

Weapons that go through go through shields in a few seconds are not fantasy. They have gone through my mod a6-class shields and 3 mod shield boosters like they weren't there. The accuracy of their weaponry is at times comical if they weren't taking out my thrusters in less than 15 seconds.

Try to mine in an uninhabited corner of the universe? The minute I fire my mining laser, the entire neighborhood instantly becomes populated with ships that pop out of nowhere and guess what, give us "that tasty cargo" starts all over again.

Running away is easy, I've gotten good at it, only yesterday I was interdicted 23x's, 17 elites, 3 deadlies and the rest lesser ones in two play sessions. The elites were all medium to large ships. I killed two of them, a Cobra, and with help from 2-5 security, an Anaconda. The Anaconda's bounty 145k, my Python damage, 220k. Worth it? Only because I got another elite to add to my stats.

As to what I just outlined, that happened over just two days and is typical. So multiply over the days since the upgrade (I play quite often, I'm retired), the number of interdictions and running away instances are disproportionate and imbalances the game play.

FD is using a blunt instrument to force you to use the Engineers, the carrot is very small compared to the stick.

I posted before, I am sticking to it because I am stubborn, that is my only motivation.

 

[howardtay]

There are a certain numbers of players that will defend FD to the end. You see the same names constantly. First blame the pilot, then your equipment, then your tactics, anything but the game mechanics. Your experience is widespread, the number of NPC's with overpowered weapons is not a few, interdicting elite ships, mostly middle size with a few large are not a few, they are in 90% of the interdictors.

Weapons that go through go through shields in a few seconds are not fantasy. They have gone through my mod a6-class shields and 3 mod shield boosters like they weren't there. The accuracy of their weaponry is at times comical if they weren't taking out my thrusters in less than 15 seconds.

Try to mine in an uninhabited corner of the universe? The minute I fire my mining laser, the entire neighborhood instantly becomes populated with ships that pop out of nowhere and guess what, give us "that tasty cargo" starts all over again.

Running away is easy, I've gotten good at it, only yesterday I was interdicted 23x's, 17 elites, 3 deadlies and the rest lesser ones in two play sessions. The elites were all medium to large ships. I killed two of them, a Cobra, and with help from 2-5 security, an Anaconda. The Anaconda's bounty 145k, my Python damage, 220k. Worth it? Only because I got another elite to add to my stats.

As to what I just outlined, that happened over just two days and is typical. So multiply over the days since the upgrade (I play quite often, I'm retired), the number of interdictions and running away instances are disproportionate and imbalances the game play.

FD is using a blunt instrument to force you to use the Engineers, the carrot is very small compared to the stick.

I posted before, I am sticking to it because I am stubborn, that is my only motivation.

Maybe Frontier should rename each version and upgrade accordingley:

20/1.5 Elite Dangerous
21.1/1.6 Elite Dangerous, Survival
22.1/1.7 Elite Dangerous, Armageddon
23.1/1.8 Elite Dangerous, Genocide
24.1/1.9 Elite Dangerous, The Final End

I too am facing the same problems, I too am stubborn, but I really don't know how long I want to keep playing this game, it is too energy draining to continue playing, fear of flying out to trade in case I get interdicted by theses NPC's is preventing me from progressing in the game, the first version for me was great, at least I could move forward in the game, now it is stagnant unless you are in to comabt, the question now is do I keep trying or do I give up the ghost? I will wait a little longer to see if FD fix it, If not I will try to find another space game, although I do prefer Elite Dangerous over the upcoming Everspace or Star Citizen or any of the others.

 

[careBear1]

Nope. Nope and Nope. Most people are happy with the game as is, You are the minority btw, not everyone else

Fascinating. I have been looking for this data but failed to find it. This is most interesting, because in a zero sum game I would have expected (mathematically) only the minority to be comfortable with the increased hazard and risk - and of course a proportion to be not be able to accommodate the change even if they try. Can you provide the reference source you are basing your statement on please.

 

[Jypson]

There are a certain numbers of players that will defend FD to the end. You see the same names constantly. First blame the pilot, then your equipment, then your tactics, anything but the game mechanics. Your experience is widespread, the number of NPC's with overpowered weapons is not a few, interdicting elite ships, mostly middle size with a few large are not a few, they are in 90% of the interdictors.

Weapons that go through go through shields in a few seconds are not fantasy. They have gone through my mod a6-class shields and 3 mod shield boosters like they weren't there. The accuracy of their weaponry is at times comical if they weren't taking out my thrusters in less than 15 seconds.

Try to mine in an uninhabited corner of the universe? The minute I fire my mining laser, the entire neighborhood instantly becomes populated with ships that pop out of nowhere and guess what, give us "that tasty cargo" starts all over again.

Running away is easy, I've gotten good at it, only yesterday I was interdicted 23x's, 17 elites, 3 deadlies and the rest lesser ones in two play sessions. The elites were all medium to large ships. I killed two of them, a Cobra, and with help from 2-5 security, an Anaconda. The Anaconda's bounty 145k, my Python damage, 220k. Worth it? Only because I got another elite to add to my stats.

As to what I just outlined, that happened over just two days and is typical. So multiply over the days since the upgrade (I play quite often, I'm retired), the number of interdictions and running away instances are disproportionate and imbalances the game play.

FD is using a blunt instrument to force you to use the Engineers, the carrot is very small compared to the stick.

I posted before, I am sticking to it because I am stubborn, that is my only motivation.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I respect the Fox and Hound game, but I'm getting tired of always being the Fox. Some people here swear that aren't being interdicted and targeted any more than normal, and I'm not calling them liars, but the opposite is also true. Some of us are being hounded constantly, and hopefully FDev can figure out if a bug is in play or if the Fox and Hound game is the new standard.

 

[Nerwan]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I respect the Fox and Hound game, but I'm getting tired of always being the Fox. Some people here swear that aren't being interdicted and targeted any more than normal, and I'm not calling them liars, but the opposite is also true. Some of us are being hounded constantly, and hopefully FDev can figure out if a bug is in play or if the Fox and Hound game is the new standard.

Well, I'm not saying that... I do get interdicted all the time, and yes largely by elite/dangerous NPCs.. However, I follow the rules and I haven't yet died..

 

[Leper Messiah]

Perhaps it would make some people happy, we'll never know. I'm sure FD have their reasons for deciding not to implement it.

I think a lot of people struggle with this game cos there is very little hand holding. However, having deleted my character and re-starting when 2.1 landed, there is certainly more in-game help than what there was when the game was originally released. E : D reminds me a little of the steep learning curve of the X series.

I truly think it would make a of of people happy(er), even those who think things are still too easy could maybe pump the Ai up beyond 100% (like some racing sims allow) and get an increased challenge and a corresponding % increase in funds and influence to reflect the greater difficulty.

We are told now that life is all about choice and that we don't HAVE to do things a certain way, so why do games still restrict us (especially those that purport to give players freedom of choice)?

 

[Jypson]

Well, I'm not saying that... I do get interdicted all the time, and yes largely by elite/dangerous NPCs.. However, I follow the rules and I haven't yet died..

It's not about dying, it's about the constant hostility. Like I posted in my own thread, I've gone from being a mostly anonymous CMDR faffing about, to having a spotlight shown on me that every hostile NPC is drawn to from a 100ly out. The occasional game of getaway-driver is entertaining, but for me, the profession of getaway-driver is not appealing.

What I'm dying to know is, is there a bug in play, or is this the new standard. I'm fine with this being the new standard, some people enjoy that kind of thing, but it's just not for me.

 

[z33r0x]

Hey i hate all the loading screens but we kinda live with it, anyway i hope that one day i'll be able to open system map without loading screen and hyperspace jump would be just fast moving thing and not loading screen. Just imagine supercruising to next system or using hyperjump that would be like uncontrollable supercruise that stops at your destination and lets you see all the stuff you pass nearby. That thing would be hard as hell to code so yeah. I can only dream.

dude, that sounded amazing, would also like to see something like that.

 

[RogerOne]

There are a certain numbers of players that will defend FD to the end. You see the same names constantly. First blame the pilot, then your equipment, then your tactics, anything but the game mechanics. Your experience is widespread, the number of NPC's with overpowered weapons is not a few, interdicting elite ships, mostly middle size with a few large are not a few, they are in 90% of the interdictors.

Weapons that go through go through shields in a few seconds are not fantasy. They have gone through my mod a6-class shields and 3 mod shield boosters like they weren't there. The accuracy of their weaponry is at times comical if they weren't taking out my thrusters in less than 15 seconds.

Try to mine in an uninhabited corner of the universe? The minute I fire my mining laser, the entire neighborhood instantly becomes populated with ships that pop out of nowhere and guess what, give us "that tasty cargo" starts all over again.

Running away is easy, I've gotten good at it, only yesterday I was interdicted 23x's, 17 elites, 3 deadlies and the rest lesser ones in two play sessions. The elites were all medium to large ships. I killed two of them, a Cobra, and with help from 2-5 security, an Anaconda. The Anaconda's bounty 145k, my Python damage, 220k. Worth it? Only because I got another elite to add to my stats.

As to what I just outlined, that happened over just two days and is typical. So multiply over the days since the upgrade (I play quite often, I'm retired), the number of interdictions and running away instances are disproportionate and imbalances the game play.

FD is using a blunt instrument to force you to use the Engineers, the carrot is very small compared to the stick.

I posted before, I am sticking to it because I am stubborn, that is my only motivation.

Rrobes, Thank You for your well thought out commentary.

I too am retired and can expend considerable hours on whatever I choose to do.

The ability to damage critical systems thru a ships dispersive shields and reflective armor plating (all metals reflect, re-radiate and conduct heat/energy) while overcoming the hulls ability to be a heat sink for those critical components (the sheer mass of these ships is mind boggling) is what has me asking. What were they thinking?! They need a physics/science major on their staff to ground them in reality. If the shields drop or were down... then I can see it happening- but no where near as fast as it presently happens in game. Boiling away the material takes time and the boil effect reflects the energy away from the focal point.

To make matters worse it appears that they are doing it knowingly. For what purpose do they seek? Is it to make obsolete shields and shielding so as to migrate the elite science fiction to become stealth and first to see/shoot will always kill/win? Or is it because they don't know what they are doing, and as such it is just another game mechanic to fully spin about until it breaks and in doing so will drive away players/business...

I do want elite and frontier to succeed. And I do hope elite/frontier comes up with a balance mechanism that accommodates multiple players with different play styles so one day I may consider playing this game again.

 

[varonica]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I respect the Fox and Hound game, but I'm getting tired of always being the Fox. Some people here swear that aren't being interdicted and targeted any more than normal, and I'm not calling them liars, but the opposite is also true. Some of us are being hounded constantly, and hopefully FDev can figure out if a bug is in play or if the Fox and Hound game is the new standard.

This is the nature of random. Very few games actually use truly random because truly random operates on a bell curve, there will be a number of players who never get interdicted, there will be an equal amount who get constantly interdicted, the vast majority will be in the middle of the bell curve. Games that use random numbers to determine encounters should be using modifiers to flatten the curve and cut off the ends so there are no players on either end of the curve. It seems that something is amiss in ED.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

The game changes version to version are simply unacceptable. This game is no longer playable for me.

Tonight I got interdicted over a dozen times just trying to explore a populated fed system. I don't want to fight so I flee... Generally I flee whenever I can when I am exploring or trading. Tonight, another NPC python interdicted my A class python (no engineer modifications at all). And somehow, not only, kept up with me while I was trying to boost away. But did so while maintaining near continuous fire on me! My initial boost got me 1000 meters ahead in about 15 seconds (had to pop a shield booster) and I initiated my FSD but had to wait a factor of 17 to initiate. Which makes no sense to me if I am 1000 meters away! Boosting again but then he also appears to be boosting and in less than 10 seconds closed the gap to 200 meters even though I was repeatedly boosting. This python somehow had the speed of a viper! Next thing I noticed my thrusters are gone- and in a few seconds my frame shift drive is gone, both off line! Somehow he destroyed these systems with my shields still up!!! How is that possible in the elite universe? In a few more seconds my shields collapse and that's it... During all of this my power distribution is shields and engines, yet this other python not only closed the gap but it also maintained near continuous fire on me?! These game changes version to version, are so severe and game crippling that I no longer can tolerate it...

Bye then...

 

[rrobes]

This is the nature of random. Very few games actually use truly random because truly random operates on a bell curve, there will be a number of players who never get interdicted, there will be an equal amount who get constantly interdicted, the vast majority will be in the middle of the bell curve. Games that use random numbers to determine encounters should be using modifiers to flatten the curve and cut off the ends so there are no players on either end of the curve. It seems that something is amiss in ED.

I beg to disagree, random is when each event is a unique event separate from every other event that has occurred and will occur in the future. One calculation can be made by using the number of different points that can be selected to make up a set, exponential notation. That is why if you were to play a lottery, buying more chances does not make it appreciably more likely to win, being random number picks the odds are very low. Where I live it's 240 million+ to one to win.

For the same player, myself for example, to be interdicted by the same disproportionate percentage (90%+) of of a combination of elite/medium to large ships all the time is not even close to being random.

I am not a statistician and my calculations may be wrong and anyone who truly knows may correct me. There are 22 ships that are capable of interdiction (I have eliminated transport, Orca, Corvette and Cutter), there are 6 combat ranks. Each one of those 22 interdicting ships can be one of 6 ranks. Using exponential notation to determine the number of probabilities as to combinations it 22 to 6th power. You say how big a number can that be?

113,379,904

So for 90%+ of interdictions to be elite FAS, FGS, FDL, Clipper, Python, Anaconda is not random. It is a programming sequence purposely built into the game.

Let's narrow it down to 5 ships and top 5 ranks, what is that number?

15,625

Everyone needs to be aware that the game is being manipulated to skew results, it affects many of the tasks you seek to accomplish. Why are certain items rare? Random would spit out a result based on the number of items available. Let's say you are looking for one item in ten, you have a 10% chance of hitting that item. Each time you do it is 10%, the odds don't change by repeated tries, each is 10%. For some items, after you find a few, they literally disappear.

Example: I found military super capacitors in a system where the controlling faction was at war, which was what another CMNDR discovered. I found my MIL supercaps fairly quickly in an Encoded USS, and was attacked while collecting four of them, odd because I couldn't remember being attacked at a USS by a ship that popped out of nowhere after I had been at a USS for a while. In order to improve my chances at the Engineers, I looked for more. I tried this one system, then another, logged off and on, countless of USS later, no MILCAPS. I believe the game was saying "I gave you 4, I will not give you any more because I don't want you to have multiple chances at a 5 level high capacity magazine at Tod's"!

I am making a good guess that random is not what is at play in all instances, programming specific results are definitely in play.

"Quant suff!"
"The Stars My Destination"
Alfred Bester

 

[xXVileXx]

That's called scaling difficulty, not a difficulty slider. A slider we can set. And why are you using text color urine?

#1 young man, call it as you may scaling difficulty/difficulty slider, merely a play on words to continue your argument, serving the same purpose without the devs having to re address adding more code for something that is already in the game.
#2 I really hate to be the bearer of bad news kiddo, but if your urine as you so elegantly put it, is "THIS COLOR", you need to go see a doctor, cause you are either dehydrated or hummmm this is a family forum so I shall be polite and just say, 1k cc penicillin shot in each hip cures it.

 

[xXVileXx]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I respect the Fox and Hound game, but I'm getting tired of always being the Fox. Some people here swear that aren't being interdicted and targeted any more than normal, and I'm not calling them liars, but the opposite is also true. Some of us are being hounded constantly, and hopefully FDev can figure out if a bug is in play or if the Fox and Hound game is the new standard.

Jypson, you are one of the people that taught me a lot about ED, matter of fact my Cobra mkIII is laid out as per your video for smuggling. There are too many players being interbitxhed to death versus those like myself that never get interbitxhed, so there has to be a reason. Let us stop with the arguing and doubting other Cmdr's and put our heads together and see if we can't come up with a solution instead of everyone getting pixxed off and doubting each other.
Perhaps it is strictly a ranking behavior between the NPC's and players, or perhaps it is specific areas, right now none of us knows, but everyone is on the defensive, lets stop this and work together to find a solution.
If I am not mistaken there was a bug thread where we were asked to post locations etc where players were getting severely interbitxhed, help me find it so we may post it here for everyone that is experiencing this to see, so they can go and post.

OK I found them, please guys go into which ever of these two threads best suit what you are experiencing and post there, the dev's are asking for our help.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...manders-unexpectedly-we-need-more-information
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/256542-Interdicted-excessively-by-elite-ranked-NPCS

 

[Dibble]

well Rush to get an Elite Combat rating and complain when you get Elite NPCs thrown at you.
clear your save and get to a nice level for combat.
I wanted to get to Elite on combat but then got much harder NPCs on the way, so laid off leveling up my combat rating till
I got better at combat. I am in no hurry to get to elite in combat.

 

[PhoenicianSon]

There is no doubt that the changes made to the overall combat mechanics make the game infinitely more challenging, but is it truly that difficult and debilitating as to want to quit, or was your post (OP) more of an impulsive reaction as a result of your completely understood frustration? I can definitely understand your frustration, however, I cannot agree that the release completely makes the game unplayable or otherwise represents a release disconnected from all the prior releases.

It sounds to me as though the NPC Python that attacked had the weapon upgrades that bleeds damage through the shields, and it clearly has a thruster upgrade if it was able to catch up to you, and all of that is even more likely if the NPC is Dangerous/Deadly or Elite. I think that the new battle tactics of the NPCs can be frustrating, but I do like the release and the challenge and it does make the game live up better to its name than the prior releases wherein your only risk of death is if you were ganked by another player in Open.

We all have to make some adjustments to our gameplay due to the more difficult combat system in the new Elite, but I would hardly say that this release breaks the game or makes it so frustratingly unplayable that one should quit. After all, if you have been playing for 1000 hours or so, you can surely afford even a 100 million dollar loss of your ship and cargo (not that this is even liklely).

 

[Muad'Dib [POZ]]

The game changes version to version are simply unacceptable. This game is no longer playable for me.

sorry to hear that because soooo many of the players I speak with realy like the changes but C'est la vie... farewell...

 

[NMS]

Maybe Frontier should rename each version and upgrade accordingley:

20/1.5 Elite Dangerous
21.1/1.6 Elite Dangerous, Survival
22.1/1.7 Elite Dangerous, Armageddon
23.1/1.8 Elite Dangerous, Genocide
24.1/1.9 Elite Dangerous, The Final End

I too am facing the same problems, I too am stubborn, but I really don't know how long I want to keep playing this game, it is too energy draining to continue playing, fear of flying out to trade in case I get interdicted by theses NPC's is preventing me from progressing in the game, the first version for me was great, at least I could move forward in the game, now it is stagnant unless you are in to comabt, the question now is do I keep trying or do I give up the ghost? I will wait a little longer to see if FD fix it, If not I will try to find another space game, although I do prefer Elite Dangerous over the upcoming Everspace or Star Citizen or any of the others.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I respect the Fox and Hound game, but I'm getting tired of always being the Fox. Some people here swear that aren't being interdicted and targeted any more than normal, and I'm not calling them liars, but the opposite is also true. Some of us are being hounded constantly, and hopefully FDev can figure out if a bug is in play or if the Fox and Hound game is the new standard.

Lose your hopes. They just do not know WHAT they do and do not even know how to fix the problems that they themselves created.

 

[relayer]

but I have not had any major problems like others (whom I believe honestly are experiencing the problems) until this point

Just dropping in to say... from a player that seems to know what they are doing, I am glad you posted.

I've been taking some heat in these threads for being on the receiving end of these ubershippen and reporting it. I have not seen the rebuy screen yet, though it's been touch and go. I've survived 18 months of E : D with a handful (literally) of rebuys (all at the beginning except for one where I crashed my new Anaconda inside a station because I accidentally hit the "match rotation" switch). I know how to fly.

What gets me is all these knee-jerk reactions that can mostly be summed up as "you're lying" despite the first bug to surface being admitted to by FD as actually being there. There are enough players reporting these odd runs of chain-interdiction (and not just noobs) that I'd think the community would take them seriously as a theory at least, and gather info for FD.

Am I complaining? Nope. I've survived the new AI just fine. But these runs of chain-interdictions are definitely off the curve, with ships showing the kind of "magic" you experienced, divorced from all the physical rules of this galaxy. I do not think that can be the intended result; I think there's a gremlin in the mix. But it won't get fixed if people lock into the rigid positions by reflex alone. For some reason, reporting these things seems to threaten a subset of players.

FYI, I was chased for 4 minutes in my cargo-less A+-rated (adv thrusters) Cobra MkIII by an NPC Anaconda (that's right; the fastest ship in the game was barely outrunning a wallowing Annie. Make of that what you will). (for those who might ask, yes, I was deliberately trolling the NPC - trying out a minelayer build )

UPDATE: please see xXVileXx links in a separate post.

 

[relayer]

There's also people with 200+ hours on those "40h AAA games". Because replayability.

I've been playing the Morrowind ultimate patches, graphics upgrades and mods (Morroblivion) for the last 2 months, and it was released in 2002! Also revisiting nethack (released 1987) I certainly have way over 200+ hours in both (not counting the prep work for the conversions, which is lengthy).