Blocking in Elite Dangerous

[Rampant]

///
, as opposed to the strict pve player who avoids as much of it as possible to reduce difficulty and risk.

That's simply a projection of your own opinion that you are somehow superior.

Plus - under slightly closer scrutiny, your opinion does not hold water.

I previously asked, in this very thread, a question of a CMDR who was going on about Elite supposed to be "Dangerous" , bleurgh (in itself this notion has become a meme of PvP players' belligerence in the face of their own contradictions....)
The question I asked was what ship loadout they were running. I got no answer that I've seen.

Let us analyse this contrary meme together, shall we?

1. Much has, laughably, been claimed that PvP players are "better" at PvE than those they label PvE players, but what parts of the PvE spectrum are we talking about here?

Analysis: material gathering is probably what you superior than other players are restricting this statement to. Very probably no other element.

2. Why is this? What is the reason for this material gathering addiction?

Analysis: strictly for the purposes of engineering.

3. What is the purpose of all this engineering. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of G5 rolls for what purpose?

Analysis: to remove the danger and risk to themselves. When the PvP player launches into some diatribe about "risk" and "Dangerous" and connected words and ideas, all they are doing is using the vocabulary that is within their own nature. It is a projection of that individual's thought processes onto other players that do not think in such terms as "risk" and "Danger".

Analysis: In actual fact, it is the very kind of individual that spouts on about the galaxy ought to be "Dangerous" who is the very character that then seeks out to minimise the risk and Danger that they themselves face. They do this in the pursuit of Engineering. Engineering in particular to minimise their own risk.

4. When I ask what ship are you flying of one of these individuals, if they answered, truthfully, it would in all likelihood be some meta-build combat vessel with uber-engineered combat optimised, nee min-maxxed combat loadout. Fact. But they often don't answer. Why would that be? Why no answer?

Analysis: because they observe that the answer would contradict their bold claims of taking on all the "risk" and "Danger" that the galaxy has to offer. The slow dawning realisation hits them that if they answered by informing us which uber-engineered combat vessel they were flying... I could mockingly ask the further question: "So tell me what is making the galaxy Dangerous for YOU?"

Am I getting through, yet?


Mostly, us PvE players do not consider the game in terms of "risk" of "Danger". They are largely foreign concepts to us inferior player in the context of a game with its own programmed and coded game environment... The environment which we are content to play within... so we equip ourselves to the task of the game environment. Not to the task of PvP with other CMDRs, a task, I may add, that we are not at all interested in. If we were, we'd be PvP players instead of busying ourselves within the game environment for our amusement and leisure.

So, what does make the game "Dangerous" and risky (whilst we don't actually think in those terms, just for a moment let us suppose that we do think in those terms). Where is the risk and "Danger" for us PvE players. That largely depends upon the individual, but I can only really speak for myself:

When I'm going about my PvE amusement, I don't fly with much engineering. Sometimes this depends upon the modes we choose. The background game then becomes a "risk" (nauseous term). I normally fly with lightweight armour and light weapons or no weapons at all, and probably the shield in the not-largest compartment. Lightly engineered if engineered at all. On the odd and rare occasions of taking a combat mission - the NPCs then pose some "risk" (bleurgh). And it isn't the easy task to win the fight that it would be if I chose a proper fighting ship with a proper fighting loadout with some strong engineering. That's where I find my fun and enjoyment. Not to make it too easy with equipment and instead be forced to use guile and cunning instead. Sometimes I need to extend and escape from a losing engagement. Which I find cool. Not placing myself in that position would be TEDIOUS in the extreme for me. Almost as TEDIOUS as that CMDR in Open who interdicts my light armour clad Phantom with lightly engineered 5A shields (Not 6A, mind), which I then escape from with 57% hull due to my "skill" in tediously boosting away from the meta-build that is supposed to be - in their own words, not mine (witness their words thread) - "making the galaxy a Dangerous place for me" (nauseating).


TLDR: Basically, hidden behind your adamant claims of being superior, you're foisting words and ideas upon PvE players that those players do not subscribe to.

 

[Brrokk]

...
TLDR: Basically, hidden behind your adamant claims of being superior, you're foisting words and ideas upon PvE players that those players do not subscribe to.

I noticed that rubbish about playing "at the highest level" yesterday. I couldn't think of a way to express how comical I found it.

 

[XanderVekk]

I shouldn't have to be your content!
All modes are equal!
I'll block whomever I want!
Great design FDEV!
I PowerPlay in solo, you can't tell me what to do!
I have some neat R2D2 coins!

 

[jasonbarron]

That's simply a projection of your own opinion that you are somehow superior.

Plus - under slightly closer scrutiny, your opinion does not hold water.

I previously asked, in this very thread, a question of a CMDR who was going on about Elite supposed to be "Dangerous" , bleurgh (in itself this notion has become a meme of PvP players' belligerence in the face of their own contradictions....)
The question I asked was what ship loadout they were running. I got no answer that I've seen.

Let us analyse this contrary meme together, shall we?

1. Much has, laughably, been claimed that PvP players are "better" at PvE than those they label PvE players, but what parts of the PvE spectrum are we talking about here?

Analysis: material gathering is probably what you superior than other players are restricting this statement to. Very probably no other element.

2. Why is this? What is the reason for this material gathering addiction?

Analysis: strictly for the purposes of engineering.

3. What is the purpose of all this engineering. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of G5 rolls for what purpose?

Analysis: to remove the danger and risk to themselves. When the PvP player launches into some diatribe about "risk" and "Dangerous" and connected words and ideas, all they are doing is using the vocabulary that is within their own nature. It is a projection of that individual's thought processes onto other players that do not think in such terms as "risk" and "Danger".

Analysis: In actual fact, it is the very kind of individual that spouts on about the galaxy ought to be "Dangerous" who is the very character that then seeks out to minimise the risk and Danger that they themselves face. They do this in the pursuit of Engineering. Engineering in particular to minimise their own risk.

4. When I ask what ship are you flying of one of these individuals, if they answered, truthfully, it would in all likelihood be some meta-build combat vessel with uber-engineered combat optimised, nee min-maxxed combat loadout. Fact. But they often don't answer. Why would that be? Why no answer?

Analysis: because they observe that the answer would contradict their bold claims of taking on all the "risk" and "Danger" that the galaxy has to offer. The slow dawning realisation hits them that if they answered by informing us which uber-engineered combat vessel they were flying... I could mockingly ask the further question: "So tell me what is making the galaxy Dangerous for YOU?"

Am I getting through, yet?


Mostly, us PvE players do not consider the game in terms of "risk" of "Danger". They are largely foreign concepts to us inferior player in the context of a game with its own programmed and coded game environment... The environment which we are content to play within... so we equip ourselves to the task of the game environment. Not to the task of PvP with other CMDRs, a task, I may add, that we are not at all interested in. If we were, we'd be PvP players instead of busying ourselves within the game environment for our amusement and leisure.

So, what does make the game "Dangerous" and risky (whilst we don't actually think in those terms, just for a moment let us suppose that we do think in those terms). Where is the risk and "Danger" for us PvE players. That largely depends upon the individual, but I can only really speak for myself:

When I'm going about my PvE amusement, I don't fly with much engineering. Sometimes this depends upon the modes we choose. The background game then becomes a "risk" (nauseous term). I normally fly with lightweight armour and light weapons or no weapons at all, and probably the shield in the not-largest compartment. Lightly engineered if engineered at all. On the odd and rare occasions of taking a combat mission - the NPCs then pose some "risk" (bleurgh). And it isn't the easy task to win the fight that it would be if I chose a proper fighting ship with a proper fighting loadout with some strong engineering. That's where I find my fun and enjoyment. Not to make it too easy with equipment and instead be forced to use guile and cunning instead. Sometimes I need to extend and escape from a losing engagement. Which I find cool. Not placing myself in that position would be TEDIOUS in the extreme for me. Almost as TEDIOUS as that CMDR in Open who interdicts my light armour clad Phantom with lightly engineered 5A shields (Not 6A, mind), which I then escape from with 57% hull due to my "skill" in tediously boosting away from the meta-build that is supposed to be - in their own words, not mine (witness their words thread) - "making the galaxy a Dangerous place for me" (nauseating).


TLDR: Basically, hidden behind your adamant claims of being superior, you're foisting words and ideas upon PvE players that those players do not subscribe to.

Gasp! Dedicated PG/solo dwelling players who never PvP and solely PvE disagree with my assessment?!? Somebody get the smelling salts because I think I'm going to swoon.

 

[M00ka]

Gasp! Dedicated PG/solo dwelling players who never PvP and solely PvE disagree with my assessment?!? Somebody get the smelling salts because I think I'm going to swoon.

Gasp! Dedicated PvP player who refuses to acknowledge that others might not want to play by his rules disagrees with someone having a differing opinion.

 

[jasonbarron]

Gasp! Dedicated PvP player who refuses to acknowledge that others might not want to play by his rules disagrees with someone having a differing opinion.

You, Rampant and everyone who liked his post have totally lost the point, because neither you nor him are in any way addressing the original point I was making to Stealthie.

 

[Lateralus]

@Lateralus , were you flying Maximum Firepower? My "secret weapon" is Scrambled Spectrum (it lets me contribute something in a wing-v-wing fight), but it appears broken after the September update. I'm curious if you (or whoever was flying that ship) noticed any modules failing.

No that was Rui, he loves building crazy off-meta stuff...

 

[Slange Lands]

4. When I ask what ship are you flying of one of these individuals, if they answered, truthfully, it would in all likelihood be some meta-build combat vessel with uber-engineered combat optimised, nee min-maxxed combat loadout. Fact. But they often don't answer. Why would that be? Why no answer?

Analysis: because they observe that the answer would contradict their bold claims of taking on all the "risk" and "Danger" that the galaxy has to offer. The slow dawning realisation hits them that if they answered by informing us which uber-engineered combat vessel they were flying... I could mockingly ask the further question: "So tell me what is making the galaxy Dangerous for YOU?"

Am I getting through, yet?
Mostly, us PvE players do not consider the game in terms of "risk" of "Danger". They are largely foreign concepts to us inferior player in the context of a game with its own programmed and coded game environment... The environment which we are content to play within... so we equip ourselves to the task of the game environment. Not to the task of PvP with other CMDRs, a task, I may add, that we are not at all interested in. If we were, we'd be PvP players instead of busying ourselves within the game environment for our amusement and leisure.

TLDR: Basically, hidden behind your adamant claims of being superior, you're foisting words and ideas upon PvE players that those players do not subscribe to.

The reason no one has has answered your question as to which ship build we PvPers are using, is because most of us constantly switch ships depending on scenario. I have three FDLs that are vastly different from each other that I use on a constant basis. Ideally, this game should have no one ship build that can mow all others down, and to a certain extent that is the case. The variety of weapons and engineering selections require very specific counters in combat and that is why we are forced to grind for materials if we are to be properly prepared for "such and such" a situation. Surely we do protect ourselves by engineering defense to the hilt, but I assure you that most of us engineer to be more dangerous rather than out of cowardice. We are constantly experimenting with weapon loadouts. Due to ship building restrictions on power usage, distributor capacity and heat generation, we all too often are also required to engineer other core modules in order to make a new weapon loadout viable in combat. Most PvPers are not fond of engineering, but due to inherent game mechanics we almost have no choice.

Please keep in mind that most/many PvP player friends of mine do not post on this forum and also spend a great deal of time in PvE. In other words the views of some of the PvPers who have posted in this thread are not necessarily widespread. Most of my PvP friends would find it unthinkable to impose their values on any other Commander. One does not need to get good or embrace danger. One should do what one is most comfortable with and that which is the most fun. This is attested to by how often PvPers use Solo mode as well. And I assure you, that most are not streaming or getting video footage.

I truly wish that more PvEers could really get to know we PvPers. Most of us are not murder hobos and do not scorn those with less combat skill. We all started out as PvEers after all.

I, for one, wish there were more PvEers and Carebears in Open. It would make my universe so much more alive.

Be seeing you... someday


o7

 

[M00ka]

The reason no one has has answered your question as to which ship build we PvPers are using, is because most of us constantly switch ships depending on scenario. I have three FDLs that are vastly different from each other that I use on a constant basis. Ideally, this game should have no one ship build that can mow all others down, and to a certain extent that is the case. The variety of weapons and engineering selections require very specific counters in combat and that is why we are forced to grind for materials if we are to be properly prepared for "such and such" a situation. Surely we do protect ourselves by engineering defense to the hilt, but I assure you that most of us engineer to be more dangerous rather than out of cowardice. We are constantly experimenting with weapon loadouts. Due to ship building restrictions on power usage, distributor capacity and heat generation, we all too often are also required to engineer other core modules in order to make a new weapon loadout viable in combat. Most PvPers are not fond of engineering, but due to inherent game mechanics we almost have no choice.

Please keep in mind that most/many PvP player friends of mine do not post on this forum and also spend a great deal of time in PvE. In other words the views of some of the PvPers who have posted in this thread are not necessarily widespread. Most of my PvP friends would find it unthinkable to impose their values on any other Commander. One does not need to get good or embrace danger. One should do what one is most comfortable with and that which is the most fun. This is attested to by how often PvPers use Solo mode as well. And I assure you, that most are not streaming or getting video footage.

I truly wish that more PvEers could really get to know we PvPers. Most of us are not murder hobos and do not scorn those with less combat skill. We all started out as PvEers after all.

I, for one, wish there were more PvEers and Carebears in Open. It would make my universe so much more alive.

Be seeing you... someday


o7

Just a question on the bit I highlighted. So you have three FdLs and you are out in FdL A. If you see a ship that your FdL A can't handle, do you really high tail it back to your home base and swap ships? What happens if your 'target' has moved on, do you then race back and swap back to your FdL A ship again?

Also what is the difference to your three FdL's and someone's three Pythons that are fitted out for mission running, combat and mining? Having unique ships to a specific role is not the sole domain of the PvP fraternity.

BTW, if you want to encourage players to interact with you, it probably isn't a good idea to call them Carebears !

 

[Slange Lands]

Just a question on the bit I highlighted. So you have three FdLs and you are out in FdL A. If you see a ship that your FdL A can't handle, do you really high tail it back to your home base and swap ships? What happens if your 'target' has moved on, do you then race back and swap back to your FdL A ship again?

Yes, if I am in a short range blaster rail ship FDL and a Mamba interdicts me I will only stay and fight if the Mamba does not "reverski", that is, go backwards and shoot from a distance. If the Mamba reverskis my short range weapons are utterly useless so I high or low wake out. We PvPers often run away (high wake) out of organic engagements that are not to our advantage. Balanced PvP and duelling are another matter and we usually go to the death. And yes, if the target has moved on and it is viable for me to switch ships, I do. Keep in mind that I deliberately "friend" as many PvPers as possible in order to increase the probability of instancing with them correctly. Being on a friends list means your "friends" know which system you are in if you are in Open, so location becomes less of an issue. If I am in a wing, a wing member may have a wake scanner as well and that will sometimes help in the chase.

Also what is the difference to your three FdL's and someone's three Pythons that are fitted out for mission running, combat and mining? Having unique ships to a specific role is not the sole domain of the PvP fraternity.

There is absolutely no difference. All of us outfit according to our particular needs. Be very grateful you don't have to engineer cargo racks or passenger cabins.

BTW, if you want to encourage players to interact with you, it probably isn't a good idea to call them Carebears !

I don't have a negative impression of Carebears because I like being nice and cuddly. Also, I used to collect Hello Kitty and somewhere in our basement is upwards of thirty different Hello Kitty plushies dressed up in differing styles and outfits. In fact if there were to be a Carebear PvPer, I would be IT. However, I do apologize to those that are offended by my usage of the term.

[Edit: I just googled the term CareBear with regard to gaming. I am definitely not a Carebear in that I certainly do not want the game to be easier. And I love combat. However, I can completely empathize with the combat phobic.]

 

[Gavin786]

There is no universal perfect build and there is a constant low-level arms race between evolving and competing 'metas', even when Frontier isn't patching things until they break. It's also important to have broad experience with as many permutations as possible...stats only go so far, first hand experience is important.

At some point the rate at which one Engineers stuff certainly slows down, but it never really ends if you expect to keep up with other players, or even if one just enjoys tinkering.

Absolutely 100%

And it is something the carebear types dont understand at all, which is why, whenever I mention that 120 module slots is way too few, I always get these kind of objecting voices "Just get rid of all that junk, 120 is more than enough", etc, etc. Well, out of all that "junk", maybe I have 2-3 G3 or G4 engineered things, almost everything is G5 either legacy or new system. Exactly for the reason Morbad has said. AND I have a whole bunch of storage ships with things of the past I might want in the future or curios of the old engineering system I dont want to part with just yet, and I would MUCH prefer them to be in module storage rather than on storage ships.

There are different builds for different situations. And these builds need different sets of modules. If you have a whole fleet of ships and want to try many different combinations that module space gets used up super fast.

Example I have a benched FDL thats only purpose is to house g5 lr multis, full set of them I made for fdl to try the build out and see if it suited me. Didnt work for me at the time, but I would much rather have then 'in service' ie in my module storage than in a storage ship. I have 2 storage condas for larger modules. And I have a whole fleet of smaller ships for PP modules.

Would be great to have a much increased module storage limit + some kind of sorting/management options, being able to sort by type rather than class would be ideal.

Anyway, just beating the old dead horse yet again.

Gavin786

 

[Old Duck]

What does any of this have to do with blocking?

 

[Bryan K]

What does any of this have to do with blocking?

It’s not even accurate. I don’t PvP and absolutely think that module storage should be increased. I have lots of legacy modules that I don’t want to do away with.

Especially my legacy Focused PAs.

 

[Han_Zen]

What does any of this have to do with blocking?

It has to do with the fragmentation of the game. As JB says, he has three different FDLs. All are probably the result of hours of engineering and even more hours of research. It's an extremely geeky undertaking to make a fleet like that.
Many players don't have the time, energy or will to even start climbing that mountain. This leads to negativity towards PvP in general. Players feel they are wronged if they are killed by another player, because the attackers capabilities doesn't balance with the rest of the game.

This general negativity towards PvP, pushed FD to implement the block function.

Some players are just not interested in PvP, but many avoid it due to the imbalance in the game. Back in the beginning at the battle of Lugh, everyone and his dog were doing PvP on both sides of the conflict. Everyone with the cash could build a top notch ship in 15 minutes and get in on the action.

Imagine the CG you describe in the OP, if it happened in a multiplayer version of the original Elite.
Every experienced player would fly a Cobra with military laser, extra energy unit and extended cargo bay. Blockaders would and traders would.
The dynamics of that CG would be totally different.

This is an extreme example, but I guarantee that there would never have been a block function in that game.

 

[Rampant]

The reason no one has has answered your question as to which ship build we PvPers are using, is because most of us constantly switch ships depending on scenario. I have three FDLs that are vastly different from each other that I use on a constant basis. Ideally, this game should have no one ship build that can mow all others down, and to a certain extent that is the case. The variety of weapons and engineering selections require very specific counters in combat and that is why we are forced to grind for materials if we are to be properly prepared for "such and such" a situation. Surely we do protect ourselves by engineering defense to the hilt, but I assure you that most of us engineer to be more dangerous rather than out of cowardice. We are constantly experimenting with weapon loadouts. Due to ship building restrictions on power usage, distributor capacity and heat generation, we all too often are also required to engineer other core modules in order to make a new weapon loadout viable in combat. Most PvPers are not fond of engineering, but due to inherent game mechanics we almost have no choice.

Miss the point a bit...

When I ask - what ship are you toting - Nobody cares about specifics, just that it is, for you my friend "One of my three dedicated FdL PvP builds". The answer is in all likelihood the exact same for the vast majority, if not for actually 100% of PvP players - some uber-engineered maxxed combat build...

That's quite enough information to answer the question and also to prove my point that:

1. You've removed pretty much ALL of the "risk" and "Danger" that the game has to offer;

2. You're taking great lengths - to the n-th degree - to minimise the "risk" and "Danger" posed by other CMDRs.

3. What makes the galaxy "Dangerous" for those players? (They appear dead set on making the galaxy a dangerous place for other lesser equipped CMDRs, yet go to the n-th degree to ensure that the galaxy poses absolutely as little risk as is humanly possible.)


I'm not in any way being denigrating of PvP CMDRs for doing that - what I'm making an observation about is that for those PvP dudes that sneer down there noses at PvE CMDRs (don't include yourself in that group if you don't do that) for using the provided tools like modes and Block … by saying "the galaxy is supposed to be Dangerous" (ad nauseam) - those CMDRs who sneer in this way are simply displaying their own contradiction and utter hypocrisy.

They really ought not to go around, in all conscience, and belittle other players for "minimising risk" when in actual fact it is themselves who are going to the n-th degree to minimise their own "risk" and "Danger".

And besides - the players that they are attempting to belittle honestly don't think in terms of "risk" and "Dangerous".

Please keep in mind that most/many PvP player friends of mine do not post on this forum and also spend a great deal of time in PvE. In other words the views of some of the PvPers who have posted in this thread are not necessarily widespread. Most of my PvP friends would find it unthinkable to impose their values on any other Commander. One does not need to get good or embrace danger. One should do what one is most comfortable with and that which is the most fun. This is attested to by how often PvPers use Solo mode as well. And I assure you, that most are not streaming or getting video footage.

I truly wish that more PvEers could really get to know we PvPers. Most of us are not murder hobos and do not scorn those with less combat skill. We all started out as PvEers after all.

I, for one, wish there were more PvEers and Carebears in Open. It would make my universe so much more alive.

Be seeing you... someday


o7

Totally cool with all of that.
I actually echo your thoughts and desires. You can often find me in Open, maybe at a CG event, but I also inhabit Mobius Group from time to time...

Sadly, the extremist PvP playstyle - you know - those that sneer about wanting to make the galaxy "Dangerous" for the general PvEer, while simultaneously and hypocritically minimising their own "Danger" - is incompatible with the general PvEer. All hail the Block function and those that wish to use it, I say. In the lack of an official PvE mode, allied to the extremely small population of Mobius (in relative terms to the Open population), the Block function is actually a welcome addition for a massive section of the player-base who desire social interaction without the tedious anti-social aspect of the extremist PvP.

o7

 

[Stigbob]

It has to do with the fragmentation of the game. As JB says, he has three different FDLs. All are probably the result of hours of engineering and even more hours of research. It's an extremely geeky undertaking to make a fleet like that.
Many players don't have the time, energy or will to even start climbing that mountain. This leads to negativity towards PvP in general. Players feel they are wronged if they are killed by another player, because the attackers capabilities doesn't balance with the rest of the game.

The PVP'ers spend more time complaining about engineering than the PVE'ers. Negativity towards PVP is more "stop telling me how I have to play" than anything else.

This general negativity towards PvP, pushed FD to implement the block function.

The block function was a pre release thing it wasn't a later addition.

Some players are just not interested in PvP, but many avoid it due to the imbalance in the game. Back in the beginning at the battle of Lugh, everyone and his dog were doing PvP on both sides of the conflict. Everyone with the cash could build a top notch ship in 15 minutes and get in on the action.

The imbalance is entirely in your choices. FDEV didn't make you do any of it.

Imagine the CG you describe in the OP, if it happened in a multiplayer version of the original Elite.
Every experienced player would fly a Cobra with military laser, extra energy unit and extended cargo bay. Blockaders would and traders would.
The dynamics of that CG would be totally different.

That's not the game FDEV made though is it..

This is an extreme example, but I guarantee that there would never have been a block function in that game.

I doubt that, player choice is increasingly popular. Reduce it and you just reduce your potential audience.

Stop worrying about peoples menu choices so much and play the game in the way you enjoy with other like minded players.

 

[M00ka]

It has to do with the fragmentation of the game. As JB says, he has three different FDLs. All are probably the result of hours of engineering and even more hours of research. It's an extremely geeky undertaking to make a fleet like that.
Many players don't have the time, energy or will to even start climbing that mountain. This leads to negativity towards PvP in general. Players feel they are wronged if they are killed by another player, because the attackers capabilities doesn't balance with the rest of the game.

This general negativity towards PvP, pushed FD to implement the block function.

Some players are just not interested in PvP, but many avoid it due to the imbalance in the game. Back in the beginning at the battle of Lugh, everyone and his dog were doing PvP on both sides of the conflict. Everyone with the cash could build a top notch ship in 15 minutes and get in on the action.

Imagine the CG you describe in the OP, if it happened in a multiplayer version of the original Elite.
Every experienced player would fly a Cobra with military laser, extra energy unit and extended cargo bay. Blockaders would and traders would.
The dynamics of that CG would be totally different.

This is an extreme example, but I guarantee that there would never have been a block function in that game.

I understand what you are saying but please stop the rhetoric that PvP'ers are the only serious engineers. For every PvP meta build there would be one exploration build, one mission build (maybe even harder than a specific build as the player is trying to make a ship to many different things exceedingly well) that has put the same amount of thought testing and engineering into their build. As for the negativity towards PvP a lot of that is self inflicted by a small minority of the PvP community. They are the ones calling anyone who doesn't PvP a carebear and a chicken, they are the ones telling anyone and everyone that unless the modify their ship for combat (or survivability at least) then don't cry when someone blows you up - even though those modifications make the original role of the ship useless.

It is quite evident that the capabilities of the ship are the deciding factor in PvP, so does that mean that piloting skill comes a very distant second? We have already been told that some will race back home to swap ships if they come up against someone with a better ship.

The fact of the matter is for the vast majority of players, PvP could be deleted from the game and they wouldn't even notice it. It is quite ironic that the PvP fail to realise that they need the non-PvP players far more than the non-PvP players them!

 

[Rampant]

Gasp! Dedicated PG/solo dwelling players* who never PvP and solely PvE disagree with my assessment?!? Somebody get the smelling salts because I think I'm going to swoon.

Probably be a good idea to get those smelling salts at the ready. Again. I think you may be needing those...

… because your post is all kinds of wrong. Your post quotes just one other: Mine.

That makes me a player, singular, not players* plural.

And this singular player happens *not * to be a "dedicated PC/solo" dweller - as you incorrectly ascribe to anyone who dares to disagree with YOUR "assessment" from superiority.

 

[Brrokk]

I don't believe in this "negativity towards PvP". I've seen people saying they don't want to be attacked but I've never seen anyone say no-one else should be allowed to PvP.

Prove me wrong by quoting something if you can.

 

[Ethaidan]

Opinion? No my friend, that's not even close to being subjective. Out of necessity PvPers have to be masters at PvE in order to keep their murdermobile's up to date and relevant, engineering more in a week than most of you do in your entire piloting careers. At high levels, this is a requirement that never ends, week in and week out, unlike strict PvE where all you have to do is slap on enough shield boosters and let your turrets do the talking while you watch Netflix on the second screen. Or if your'e a trader just back and forth milk runs ad nauseum with no risk or upset to your schedule.

The amount of hoop jumping required for this engineering grind is substantial, as anyone who's engineered will tell you. That, and having to keep their finances up in order to offset massive credit losses due to constant ship destruction (my career insurance costs are over 1 billion and that's not considered high by any stretch of the imagination). Heck, even exploration is covered by the profession, as evidenced by all my friends who nobly embarked on the Distant Ganks 2 Expedition, the greatest aid rendering mission ever undertaken in the ED universe.

No, there's no doubt that PvPer's have to be excellent at PvE even if the only reason they do it is because they have to to fulfill their long term PvP goals; simply put, there is no arena of play that PvPers aren't more proficient at than non-PvPers.

Edit: dammit, now I'm all choked up thinking of all my awesomely skilled brothers and sisters of the gun!

All of this is a complete and utter fallacy--fantasy. As 'anyone who's engineered', in fact G5 engineered every single ship in my main account using both the old and new systems, with multiple versions of vanilla and PP weapons engineered and stored for different loadout experiments, even including multiple G5 hulls for some ships, here's what I can tell you - that level of engineering does require a fair amount of commitment, but that commitment extends to two of the very basic, most simplistic elements of PvE grinding credits and collecting mats. That's it, that is as deep an understanding of, expertise about, mastery of PvE that is required - with core mining and mat traders, it amounts to barely scratching the surface of the game. So, no, you're way off the mark - being good at PvP, knowing how to engineer, and focusing on engineering in no way equates to being a 'master of PvE' - marginally informed about two basic elements is all that's required.