Board flipping=exploit, how stupid, read on...

[rhiz]

As far as I understand it, the mode has a seed, which it then uses to create missions to populate your mission board with. When you switch modes, a different seed is used for the boards and all your missions are replaced as they have an invalid seed. So you can switch modes to force the recreation of missions for your board.

With my idea, the missions will persist until re-rolled and the seed will not matter anymore; it is only needed when you query a new set of missions. They should only get purged during the server tick when conditions for the missions change with faction states.

I see, thank you. What I’m trying to understand is why it’s technically necessary to limit the number of missions that are generated for each player to the extent that they are, preventing any kind of significant filtering system and resulting in less “space” on the board when new mission types are introduced. Not knowing the precise technical details, it’s difficult to be particularly constructive.

I’d definitely support your approach though.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

I do like the way the OP just doesn't care anymore.
Kinda puzzled why he plays at all. A low res VR Netflix zombie running endless Passenger missions who has a few years to live and spends his time doing this.
Just wow. I couldn't make this stuff up.

 

[sb413197]

LOL, I can clear the CNB where I fight in 5-10 minutes, usually, if there aree clean ships there also killing wanted ships.

So, are you saying I should go to the CNB and fight for 5-10 minutes, and when it is empty because the last of the clean ships have jumped out that I should sit and wait for 5-10-15 minutes or more for ships to start appearing again, or just go back to the station and do something else?

Are you calling me a lying cheater scumbag if I super cruise out, then back to the CNB so that I have another ten ships to kill?

I am quite sure you made billions board hopping with feces a couple of years ago and did that until it was gone, then you ran Smeaton missions for a billion until it was nerfed.

As a noob I was amazed by the crusty veterans with 3, 5, 8, 10, even more billion saved up as I struggled to make more than 300k in an hour at the res site, or doing missions.

Then there was Smeaton, I asked if that was how they made the billions, for some who were honest they said "No, I made my billions hauling feces back when it was the big thing."

And some added,"But I've also make a billion or two from Smeaton runs."

But not, a single one of them lied and said they made their billions 100k or a million credits at a time.

I do not believe for one second that you have never logged out, then back in for materials, NPC's to spawn, missions, or anything else.

You are full of hot air, who made your billions with a ton of cheese, now you want others to not be able to do it the way you did, and when they ask you how you ever did it without exploits you could thumb your nose at them and tell them they are just not cut out for the game and do not have the dedication you have always had, etc...

I have seen many making the grandiose claims you have made, and it turns out they have all cheesed more than any 3 of the rest of us combined.

That's the thing about an open world sandbox game - everyone plays its differently and has a different "line" they won't cross. It's kind of like the old joke about driving - anyone who drives faster than you is a maniac and everyone who drives slower is an idiot...same thing here except replace that with "exploiter" and "masochist" respectively.

My point is that everyone has a different way to play this game and just because I personally have a certain "standard" for my own play doesn't mean others need to adhere to it. Some well known players will go so far as to not use certain modules or even not engineer AT ALL and will not rebuy their ship upon death (Isonona), play only on flight assist off, and even reset their commander on death; others will rampantly use any opening the game gives them for an edge. For the most part, except in the truly most extreme cases where it just seems silly, all styles are fine IMO - everyone has a different way of playing and we shouldn't inflict our styles of play on others for the most part (again the ultimate extremes can get a bit silly).

 

[Schmack]

3rd party tools are exploits.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

3rd party tools are exploits.

I'm an Exploiter then.

 

[Sylveria]

3rd party tools are exploits.

You mean... like Inara?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I have mixed feelings about this. I agree that board flipping isn’t a legitimate tactic, but I also feel that there are issues with the mission system and other design decisions in the game that actively encourage it. What makes the pursuit of credits such a motivating and emotive subject anyway?

Like you, I made my first billion in the game largely from exploration and sight-seeing runs. I picked up a Beluga and started running the lucrative passenger missions to distant stations. In my case, I chose not to board flip because I play in VR and would rather feel like I was inhabiting a believable Universe. Instead, I visited every station in a system if necessary – on average it took about 30 minutes and I easily filled up my cabins. I didn’t consider it to be an exploit because it was based on a valid economic principle and I was playing it straight (not flipping). When they nerfed the bulk missions I simply adapted the tactic for VIPs. However, when the wing missions came in at the expense of the other missions on the board, I could no longer utilize my Beluga fully in this way, so the incentive to board flip was greatly increased.

The sole reason it's an exploit is that it is using mode switching in an unintended way. It is an exploit.

But that statement comes without judgement. People are equating exploiting with cheating. But they are different concepts. Cheats can be a subset of exploits, but only when they break the rules. There is no rule in Elite how often you can switch modes. It's not cheating. It's making use of a feature to your advantage in a way not intended by the developers. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Schmack]

You mean... like Inara?

Proud exploiter here. I'll flip a board so fast the factions will fly out of the station.

 

[Schmack]

What a nonsense. It's just lazy but typical modern game design and doesn't fit very well to the otherwise oldschool approach of ED.

Let's be consistent here. The game isn't designed for you to go to some website and find out exactly where to go for a material trader, or a certain module, or what commodity prices are in a station you don't have trade data for, or where to find this or that on which planet in a system you've never even visited.

3rd party tools are used to remove the insane amount of almost impossible grind it would take to make any money doing trading or other things if you didn't have tools to make it more efficient. Board flipping is just a tool available to us until someone takes it away.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

Proud exploiter here. I'll flip a board so fast the factions will fly out of the station.

So fast? Log out to main menu, log in, load Mission board. Repeat - screw that self inflicted torture.

Full disclosure: when I start my game session for the day and I'm docked at one of my main money making Stations and looking for missions.
I will first log into Solo, then back into Open.
Then I will play the rest of my many hours game session in Open. I just can't be bothered flipping more than once a day.

 

[WR3ND]

Let's be consistent here. The game isn't designed for you to go to some website and find out exactly where to go for a material trader, or a certain module, or what commodity prices are in a station you don't have trade data for, or where to find this or that on which planet in a system you've never even visited.

3rd party tools are used to remove the insane amount of almost impossible grind it would take to make any money doing trading or other things if you didn't have tools to make it more efficient. Board flipping is just a tool available to us until someone takes it away.

Well, I don't know... I think Frontier does intentionally support in some capacity the use of third part tools knowingly toward those ends by making this information available to them and having some communication with them. But hey, feel free to call anything whatever like; just don't tell anyone that I said to.

 

[Schmack]

The sole reason it's an exploit is that it is using mode switching in an unintended way. It is an exploit.

But that statement comes without judgement. People are equating exploiting with cheating. But they are different concepts. Cheats can be a subset of exploits, but only when they break the rules. There is no rule in Elite how often you can switch modes. It's not cheating. It's making use of a feature to your advantage in a way not intended by the developers. Nothing more, nothing less.

You're using circular reasoning or argument by assertion. Unintended gameplay is often considered emergent. An example would be taking an SRV into orbit. Do you think that was intended?

If the developers don't call it an exploit, regardless whether or not they can fix it, then it's not an exploit. Otherwise if you log out for any reason and log back in, you should avoid the mission board because you're using an exploit even if unintentional.

If anything, it's immersion breaking and cheesy. This I will agree with. It's not an exploit however. The game allows you to stack 20 missions for a reason. Simply change that to 1 or 2. Problem solved.

Well, I don't know... I think Frontier does intentionally support in some capacity the use of third part tools knowingly toward those ends by making this information available to them and having some communication with them. But hey, feel free to call anything whatever like; just don't tell anyone that I said to.

Board flipping is available and obviously supported.

 

[Aaron T]

That's the thing about an open world sandbox game - everyone plays its differently and has a different "line" they won't cross. It's kind of like the old joke about driving - anyone who drives faster than you is a maniac and everyone who drives slower is an idiot...same thing here except replace that with "exploiter" and "masochist" respectively.

My point is that everyone has a different way to play this game and just because I personally have a certain "standard" for my own play doesn't mean others need to adhere to it. Some well known players will go so far as to not use certain modules or even not engineer AT ALL and will not rebuy their ship upon death (Isonona), play only on flight assist off, and even reset their commander on death; others will rampantly use any opening the game gives them for an edge. For the most part, except in the truly most extreme cases where it just seems silly, all styles are fine IMO - everyone has a different way of playing and we shouldn't inflict our styles of play on others for the most part (again the ultimate extremes can get a bit silly).

I am getting much better with flight assist off, but then I'll move the controls too far and end up in Caldonia.

The sole reason it's an exploit is that it is using mode switching in an unintended way. It is an exploit.

But that statement comes without judgement. People are equating exploiting with cheating. But they are different concepts. Cheats can be a subset of exploits, but only when they break the rules. There is no rule in Elite how often you can switch modes. It's not cheating. It's making use of a feature to your advantage in a way not intended by the developers. Nothing more, nothing less.

I wish you had posted this a the second post.

 

[Schmack]

So fast? Log out to main menu, log in, load Mission board. Repeat - screw that self inflicted torture.

Full disclosure: if I'm docked at one of my main money making Stations and looking for missions - I will first log into Solo, then back into Open.
Then I will play the rest of my many hours game session in Open. I just can't be bothered flipping more than once a day.

I only need to do it twice. Once for a regen of missions and once to get back to my preferred mode.

If I was a businessman in space and knew I could simply reset my comms with factions to double my profits, I'd reset my comms. The game is stump dumb, find your entertainment where you can while you can, especially when it doesn't involve interfering with anyone else's gameplay.

 

[WR3ND]

...

Board flipping is available and obviously supported.

I couldn't say one way or the other with certainty, but I seem to recall hearing a Frontier dev call it an exploit in their opinion, or something to that effect. I suspect that they might very well intentionally turn a blind eye to it, but I also don't think they want people playing their game that way either, if it can be helped, which for the time being at least, can't be, apparently.

 

[Aaron T]

Almost every company I ever worked for allowed me to develop my own method of getting the job done after learning the old fashioned way of course, when allowed to do this we develop what way works best for us, we become more efficient and get more done, faster.

Whenever I was the supervisor and I had a new person I would teach them how I was taught.

But, I would also tell them that as they got used to the job they might develop their own style that worked best for them.

I have had civilians come to me and show me some way they found to make them more efficient, I gave them attaboys and they were a better worker for allowing them some flexibility to be their own person and use their own style.

Now a control freak would have said "You do it my way or the highway."

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You're using circular reasoning or argument by assertion. Unintended gameplay is often considered emergent. An example would be taking an SRV into orbit. Do you think that was intended?

Where's the advantage in taking an SRV in orbit?

If the developers don't call it an exploit, regardless whether or not they can fix it, then it's not an exploit. Otherwise if you log out for any reason and log back in, you should avoid the mission board because you're using an exploit even if unintentional.

Again, for the 3rd time, an exploit doesn't have to be something you should not do. Again, using it doesn't break any rules. Why are you so hellbend in reading judgement from my post?

If anything, it's immersion breaking and cheesy. This I will agree with. It's not an exploit however. The game allows you to stack 20 missions for a reason. Simply change that to 1 or 2. Problem solved.

It's an exploit by definition.

Edit: I wonder, how do you define an exploit?

 

[Stealthie]

Almost every company I ever worked for allowed me to develop my own method of getting the job done after learning the old fashioned way of course, when allowed to do this we develop what way works best for us, we become more efficient and get more done, faster.

Whenever I was the supervisor and I had a new person I would teach them how I was taught.

But, I would also tell them that as they got used to the job they might develop their own style that worked best for them.

You operate within a set of rules we call "reality" though.

You don't get to log in and out of it (presumably) until you get a set of circumstances that allows you to complete a task effectively.

"Aaron, the client has insisted that we move up the deadline by a week!"
"Ah, relax, I'll just reality-flip until we get a client who's okay with the deadline sliding by a month"

 

[Aaron T]

I have always said the best solution would be to open the boards and see what we do now, but in addition have 5-10 pages or tabs, and zero ability to flip.

You simply browse through all the pages or tabs and choose what you want and leave.

There would be 5 times the variety, selections, and zero exploiting the board.

But I would never open the boards period if the current jobs were all they offered on one page, no flipping.

My time in real life is worth no less than $50/hour, so I am not going to go into a game a work for slave or third world country wages, and that's what you find on most of every single page, period.

I have one contract kill among 3000+ kills, because I can go to a CNB and make 5 million credits pretty quickly, or I can take a kill mission and spend 30 minutes to 3 hours searching for a specific pirate and kill him for 100k-1 million credits.

 

[Aaron T]

You operate within a set of rules we call "reality" though.

You don't get to log in and out of it (presumably) until you get a set of circumstances that allows you to complete a task effectively.

"Aaron, the client has insisted that we move up the deadline by a week!"
"Ah, relax, I'll just reality-flip until we get a client who's okay with the deadline sliding by a month"

You areen't trusted by your own people to carry a pocket knife are you?



Then that clearly explains your anger and need to twist folks words into your own narrative, because you have zero control of your own life, you have to live in lock step, so you feel a small modicum of control by trolling forums.

I feel your pain, but move on troll.