PvP Calling out all PvPers!

[Sir Ganksalot]

That's so awesome about CKnarf. PC needs that, too.

You wanna talk about a person that actually IS awesome, CKnarf is probably the most awesome and helpful player in this entire game.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Personally I think the OP would be the absolute worst person to organize anything PvP related because of his attitude towards "bad guy" pvpers and the fact that he probably has half of the PvP community on his block list.
But on Xbox, CKnarf puts together an event called H.A.A.A.N.D.S. every Thursday evening, where players come together with unengineered, small ships for a night of PvP in equal ships. And at H.A.A.A.N.D.S. EVERYONE IS WELCOME instead of just certain players with a certain play style.

Unfortunately you're on PS4 IIRC, but I'm sure someone could put something similar together if there was enough support for it and the right person to organize it.

This is why I've been laughing for this whole thread.
As I alluded to earlier, it's not a novel concept and in fact is already happening.

 

[Arguendo]

Obviously, not everyone got the message.
If you want to discuss things that aren't related to the OP, do it elsewhere. If you insist on doing it, expect this thread to become "Read only" for you.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

This is why I've been laughing for this whole thread.
As I alluded to earlier, it's not a novel concept and in fact is already happening.

Exactly.
There's also an event tomorrow (on Xbox) called The Distant Robbery where players get to pick between playing as cargo runner, an escort or a pirate. The cargo runners have to haul cargo to a designated point and the pirates have to try to stop them but if the hauler is blown up, the points go to the hauler. Escorts are mostly just there to protect the event against players trying to ruin the whole thing. There's a whole points system and everything and over 200 players signed up.

By the way this event was organized and put together by the leaders of the most prolific gank and white knight squadrons on Xbox and is a result of players of every different play style putting aside their differences and WORKING TOGETHER INSTEAD OF BLOCKING EACH OTHER!

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Exactly.
There's also an event tomorrow (on Xbox) called The Distant Robbery where players get to pick between playing as cargo runner, an escort or a pirate. The cargo runners have to haul cargo to a designated point and the pirates have to try to stop them but if the hauler is blown up, the points go to the hauler. Escorts are mostly just there to protect the event against players trying to ruin the whole thing. There's a whole points system and everything and over 200 players signed up.

By the way this event was organized and put together by the leaders of the most prolific gank and white knight squadrons on Xbox and is a result of players of every different play style putting aside their differences and WORKING TOGETHER INSTEAD OF BLOCKING EACH OTHER!

The first discord I ever joined was full of talk about non/lightly-engineered and small ship PVP get-togethers.

The premises in the OP are false.

 

[Slange Lands]

Even though I am one of those that enjoys engineering, I can see that it is mostly to blame for the lack of players interested in PvP.

Of the dozen or so padawans that I have taken under my wing over the past year, more than half of them eventually gave up because of the grind to unlock all the engineers that are pretty much required to be competitive in PvP.

Agreed.
Below are what I believe to be significant issues:

1. Engineering: Something has to give, that is besides players giving up. Although I have literally hundreds of engineered modules, I find the process gruesome. As Sir Ganksalot described in the above post, the engineering grind wall has ruined PvP for many, many Commanders who would otherwise do so.

2. A negative attitude about the current state of PvP. Sure, go ahead and be miserable about it. But negativity never solved anything for the better. You can be positive and realistic as well. A positive attitude is more likely to come up with more viable solutions, at the very least one is more likely to have the psychological disposition to do so. Extreme negativity is as delusional as extreme positivity. I also understand that many PvPers feel their voices have been muted. Communication is a two way street that it seems like here at least, the road coming from FDev seems to be permanently under construction.

o7

 

[Old Duck]

Even though I am one of those that enjoys engineering, I can see that it is mostly to blame for the lack of players interested in PvP.

Of the dozen or so padawans that I have taken under my wing over the past year, more than half of them eventually gave up because of the grind to unlock all the engineers that are pretty much required to be competitive in PvP.

For me it's not just the Engineer grind, but also the end result. If a battle is going to last 30 minutes, I'd prefer it being because we're good pilots, not because we're all popping SCBs like jelly babies. It's bad enough that we can G5 Prismatics that are buffed by a dozen shield boosters. Add G5 DD to large ships, and I lose my advantage if being small and nippy in my Viper. I also want to pick my own weapons because I like those weapons, not because they are the only meta that I can possibly win with.

I'd be cool playing in a group where engineering is limited to G1 and SCBs & shield boosters are either prohibited or at least have a cap. G1 engineering is modest, but it gives some nice advantages (even G1 long range lasers is a huge boon as it eliminates falloff) and unlocks the special effects. I have no idea how these rules would be enforced, unless it was a group of close friends who swear not to cheat.

I'd still probably lose, but at least I'd lose because I'm a crap pilot, not because I'm a mortal fighting an invincible god.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

For me it's not just the Engineer grind, but also the end result. If a battle is going to last 30 minutes, I'd prefer it being because we're good pilots, not because we're all popping SCBs like jelly babies. It's bad enough that we can G5 Prismatics that are buffed by a dozen shield boosters. Add G5 DD to large ships, and I lose my advantage if being small and nippy in my Viper. I also want to pick my own weapons because I like those weapons, not because they are the only meta that I can possibly win with.

I'd be cool playing in a group where engineering is limited to G1 and SCBs & shield boosters are either prohibited or at least have a cap. G1 engineering is modest, but it gives some nice advantages (even G1 long range lasers is a huge boon as it eliminates falloff) and unlocks the special effects. I have no idea how these rules would be enforced, unless it was a group of close friends who swear not to cheat.

I'd still probably lose, but at least I'd lose because I'm a crap pilot, not because I'm a mortal fighting an invincible god.

Just remember that all lies at the feet of the devs, not the PVP community.

I think you'll find wide agreement with PVPers about power creep.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

For me it's not just the Engineer grind, but also the end result. If a battle is going to last 30 minutes, I'd prefer it being because we're good pilots, not because we're all popping SCBs like jelly babies. It's bad enough that we can G5 Prismatics that are buffed by a dozen shield boosters. Add G5 DD to large ships, and I lose my advantage if being small and nippy in my Viper. I also want to pick my own weapons because I like those weapons, not because they are the only meta that I can possibly win with.

I'd be cool playing in a group where engineering is limited to G1 and SCBs & shield boosters are either prohibited or at least have a cap. G1 engineering is modest, but it gives some nice advantages (even G1 long range lasers is a huge boon as it eliminates falloff) and unlocks the special effects. I have no idea how these rules would be enforced, unless it was a group of close friends who swear not to cheat.

I'd still probably lose, but at least I'd lose because I'm a crap pilot, not because I'm a mortal fighting an invincible god.

Although this is very true, it's actually fairly easy to fully engineer a ship for PvP with how easy it is to find high grade emissions now.

I would assume that being the veteran player that you are that you have most, if not all the engineers unlocked, so why not just build one PvP ship? It's fairly easy to do and I would be more than happy to help you build it.

 

[jasonbarron]

Just remember that all lies at the feet of the devs, not the PVP community.

I think you'll find wide agreement with PVPers about power creep.

Actually, I lay it at the feet of the PvE community, because the power creep has been the dev's caving in to them. Definitely agree with your statement though: PvPers never asked for this arms race, and in fact have argued vociferously against it on numerous occasions.

 

[True Phoenix]

Lol.

Gankalot. Cutter with long range phases and he stays at long range till he gets it wrong. Charge FSD and jump, game over. Or, and I offer this only as advice cos I got billions in da bank, hi cap pack hounds with drag and MC's. Fun times.

 

[Bigmaec]

Actually, I lay it at the feet of the PvE community, because the power creep has been the dev's caving in to them. Definitely agree with your statement though: PvPers never asked for this arms race, and in fact have argued vociferously against it on numerous occasions.

Actually, with some of the power creep I don't think anyone wanted/asked for it... Look at the new new engineering, iirc all sides had arguments against it, most were in favor of limiting stuff including legacy modules (except some few voices against capping legacy modules "respect my grind"...).
Or the guardian shield reinforcements which came out of the blue and are completely unnecessary. A lot of this madness goes on FD, which is why I'm quite sad no one there seems to play their game on a level like the real cracks here do, be it PvE or PvP.

 

[Old Duck]

I would assume that being the veteran player that you are that you have most, if not all the engineers unlocked, so why not just build one PvP ship? It's fairly easy to do and I would be more than happy to help you build it.

While I appreciate your helpfulness, that's part of the problem - I don't want to follow a "meta" recipe. I do have some highly-engineered ships, fun little ships like my Viper III and even my Sidewinder (both which have survived some serious ganking attempts). Now what I need is environment where I can get a "fair" fight. I'm not talking about putting everyone else in Vipers. Rather I'm talking about that PvP-only CZ I keep bringing up, where hopefully there would be enough ships on both sides to allow a mix of small and large, along with different roles (tanks, shield DPS, hull DPS, perhaps even "healers").

Again, this is why I personally find PvP unappealing in ED, unless I'm just screwing around. I can't just jump in and play - I need to be a veteran with G5 materials and PP modules (of which I have one), then I have to use certain ships with certain recipes, then I have to go out-of-game to arrange a "fair" fight, and then I pray to the instancing gods, and..... Then I just say, "screw it", load Overwatch*, and have fun.

And I actually get rewards in Overwatch, unlike ED PvP which is relatively purposeless except for the thrill of the fight itself (the rewards being a huge repair bill and / or bounty on my head, or worse, and insane rebuy, which another reason I PvP in a Viper III).

* insert favorite PvP game of choice

 

[RevCaoticFox]

I do this as well, to recruit... I get called a "griefer".. but never a "ganker"

this was from quoting Old Duck... on page 3... why didn't the quote show up???

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

While I appreciate your helpfulness, that's part of the problem - I don't want to follow a "meta" recipe. I do have some highly-engineered ships, fun little ships like my Viper III and even my Sidewinder (both which have survived some serious ganking attempts). Now what I need is environment where I can get a "fair" fight. I'm not talking about putting everyone else in Vipers. Rather I'm talking about that PvP-only CZ I keep bringing up, where hopefully there would be enough ships on both sides to allow a mix of small and large, along with different roles (tanks, shield DPS, hull DPS, perhaps even "healers").

Again, this is why I personally find PvP unappealing in ED, unless I'm just screwing around. I can't just jump in and play - I need to be a veteran with G5 materials and PP modules (of which I have one), then I have to use certain ships with certain recipes, then I have to go out-of-game to arrange a "fair" fight, and then I pray to the instancing gods, and..... Then I just say, "screw it", load Overwatch*, and have fun.

And I actually get rewards in Overwatch, unlike ED PvP which is relatively purposeless except for the thrill of the fight itself (the rewards being a huge repair bill and / or bounty on my head, or worse, and insane rebuy, which another reason I PvP in a Viper III).

* insert favorite PvP game of choice

I can see where you're coming from but I think there's more variation than you're giving credit to and most pvpers that are still playing, aren't flying the same ol met FDL. Some are, but most aren't. I think what's really enjoyable now is all the different ships people use. I've seen PvP T7's with 5000+ hull running all enforcers, I personally just built a PvP orca that I've been whooping butt with, I've seen a lot of shield/hull hybrid challengers lately for some reason, and my friends and I have been working on some different PvP DBX builds lately. And even though there's a loose meta for the shields and armor, there's actually quite a few different weapon combos that work really well. Personally I'm a fan all PA's because I am one of those try hards you've mentioned and I enjoy putting my skills to the test but there's actually quite a bit of variation in the PvP community.

If you think every pvper is still running the same FDL meta with all PA's you're mistaken.
I will admit though that PvP small ships are very rare to come by because of their lack of firepower.
That's actually my biggest irritation in this game, is the gap in damage output between small and medium ships.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

If you think every pvper is still running the same FDL meta with all PA's you're mistaken.

After logging in for the first time in several months last night and cruising around Founders' World looking for PvP, I'm gonna have to go ahead and:

I even spectated a few fights and it was honestly the most braindead PvP I've ever seen. Wings of prismatic 5x booster 5x PA FDL's just jousting each other into infinity. Sad to see that the game has devolved to such a stupid meta that relies on you flying the most OP ship with the most OP shield setup and the most OP weapons rather than skill. I wanted to gouge my eyes out halfway during that fight, and I wasn't even participating.

 

[jasonbarron]

After logging in for the first time in several months last night and cruising around Founders' World looking for PvP, I'm gonna have to go ahead and:

I even spectated a few fights and it was honestly the most braindead PvP I've ever seen. Wings of prismatic 5x booster 5x PA FDL's just jousting each other into infinity. Sad to see that the game has devolved to such a stupid meta that relies on you flying the most OP ship with the most OP shield setup and the most OP weapons rather than skill. I wanted to gouge my eyes out halfway during that fight, and I wasn't even participating.

Doesn't sound very fun. I suspected that I was better off sticking with Dark Souls III, and now I know.

 

[Slange Lands]

After logging in for the first time in several months last night and cruising around Founders' World looking for PvP, I'm gonna have to go ahead and:

I even spectated a few fights and it was honestly the most braindead PvP I've ever seen. Wings of prismatic 5x booster 5x PA FDL's just jousting each other into infinity. Sad to see that the game has devolved to such a stupid meta that relies on you flying the most OP ship with the most OP shield setup and the most OP weapons rather than skill. I wanted to gouge my eyes out halfway during that fight, and I wasn't even participating.

It may be an anathema to your aesthetic, but if the peeps were having fun, why not? I regret that PvP in Elite has become disappointing for you, but for others, it is a very new joy. Rinzler, you are a top banana in PvP and I very much respect what you have done for PvP and your amazing skill. However, please do not despair, because it makes some of us sad. It simply has to get better. After all, could it get any worse?

o7

 

[TEBORI]

After logging in for the first time in several months last night and cruising around Founders' World looking for PvP, I'm gonna have to go ahead and:

I even spectated a few fights and it was honestly the most braindead PvP I've ever seen. Wings of prismatic 5x booster 5x PA FDL's just jousting each other into infinity. Sad to see that the game has devolved to such a stupid meta that relies on you flying the most OP ship with the most OP shield setup and the most OP weapons rather than skill. I wanted to gouge my eyes out halfway during that fight, and I wasn't even participating.

dont pull everything down
there are bi weave fdls out there (i fly one myself),
srb rails is also a nice variant atm, a lot of chieftain, some kraits with frags and much more

it's still a lot of variation in the pvp game

its only two weeks ago iirc when one of the biggest pvp battles ever took place in the game in eravate with 120 cmdr fighting in this system during a few hours.

with such destructive posts the only thing which is reached is, that people who want to get in to pvp think na its not worth the effort.
but it is worth the effort.

i place the offer to everyone to fly as guest with our forces to see with his own eyes.
send me a pm in case someone is interested... o7

 

[Old Duck]

If you think every pvper is still running the same FDL meta with all PA's you're mistaken.

I "defeated" an FDL with PAs about a week ago flying first my Sidewinder and then my Dolphin. I was glad he had PAs, as he couldn't land a shot on me. When I say "defeated", I mean survived and eventually escaped, and I agitated the heck out of this guy (not all PvPers are "nice" via comms). So while I don't have an interest in meta-PvP (as 3x07 dude describes), I do have fun poking at hornets nests and running blockades. And thanks to C&P, my cheap (yet oh so fun) Sidewinder costs my enemy a whole lot more when I do die.