Challenger = Chieftain = Crusader, Krait = Python... What's the point?

[CoyoteXStarrk]

Honestly I could care less if they wanna make very similar ships with only slight differences.



All I want is a medium sized Imperial ship. Or at the very least fix the Clipper. Its an amazing looking and handling ship that has no place in the game anymore. There is nothing that the Clipper does that makes it better than any other ship. It has no niche and it has no point. Which is really depressing because I love the ship and the way it looks.

 

[Mengy]

Player choice is good.

I agree, player choice is very welcome, but the game has plenty of combat oriented ships in it already. How about some more trading ships? Or more exploration focused ships? Or a ship designed with mining as it's primary role? How about a medium passenger ship from Saud Kruger? Or a medium pad Imperial ship?

I have no problem with ship variants, but when said variants are all combat oriented then there is no variety.

Ship roles need to be varied in order to enable actual player choice.

 

[M00ka]

Honestly I could care less if they wanna make very similar ships with only slight differences.



All I want is a medium sized Imperial ship. Or at the very least fix the Clipper. Its an amazing looking and handling ship that has no place in the game anymore. There is nothing that the Clipper does that makes it better than any other ship. It has no niche and it has no point. Which is really depressing because I love the ship and the way it looks.

I understand what you are saying, especially about the Clipper, but isn't that one of the bonuses of the game. There is no one ship that is perfect, there is no ship that every Commander has to have to survive in the game. So FD can put as many ships in as they want, someone will find favour with a certain ship, yet others will look at the same ship with distain. Look at the dichotomy of the player group, some only like small ships, some will only ever fly one of the big three, some have modified their ships to perform a very specific function and only ever use it for that use, others will stick with having generic builds that can perform multiple tasks. I would much rather have the current system FD are using than have a smaller collection of unique, purpose built ships that can only do one unique role.

As for the Clipper, if you love that ship, that is all that matters. Fly it, enjoy it, and stop worrying about it not having a niche, simply because no ship in the game has a unique niche.

 

[ozrix84]

The Krait flies exactly how I want it to, and like my BGS Python never did. I quick-kitted it by stealing the Engied internals from the Python, which will probably gather dust now for a long time despite it hauling more and me not even using an SLF with the K2. Very different flight experiences with the same major internals; the Krait feels much more responsive and nimble. I did redo the weapons so I could get some direct kinetics into those faceslots, because I can bring them to bear more readily and effectively than I could with the Python.

I don't care that the Python is technically more effective at BGS work and missioning, though I do a lot of that. The Krait doesn't dethrone the Python for best-at-task nor is it meant to. I still use it for that role because the Krait for me is too much fun to fly to care about losing some tonnage per mission percentage or equally boring spreadsheet stat, while being better able to engage in combat at need even when fully loaded. I am pretending to be a spaceman and this ship feeds into that on a Millenium Falcon level. The Python to me always felt just plain boring to operate no matter what I did with it or to it. Boringly competent. That's not the vibe I want from my ship.

Pretty much agree with everything you wrote and I've switched exactly for the same reasons. I imagine a lot of other people did too, seeing as how many of them whizz around now.

 

[Lightspeed]

I agree, player choice is very welcome, but the game has plenty of combat oriented ships in it already. How about some more trading ships? Or more exploration focused ships? Or a ship designed with mining as it's primary role? How about a medium passenger ship from Saud Kruger? Or a medium pad Imperial ship?

I have no problem with ship variants, but when said variants are all combat oriented then there is no variety.

Ship roles need to be varied in order to enable actual player choice.

I've built a Krait Xplorer .... it's krrra .... :x

 

[Saool]

Besides an SLF what's the point of all these cloned ships?

Maybe I'm generalizing too much but I don't see enough of a difference to justify these new ships. SLF aren't even worth carrying from my point of view as they just get blown up instantly or sit unused taking up an optional slot while stealing my profits and experience. Marginal differences between the Krait and Python's handling characteristics and less cargo space don't justify me moving over to a Krait.

If they're going to introduce a new ship one would hope that it's at least different than what we have. This way we would actually have a reason for buying a new ship and going through the hoops of outfitting it and engineering the modules. Instead we just get more of the same, colour me quite disappointed in the creativity of the game developers.

For example how about we get a medium size imperial ship, (instead of another Challenger clone) which has be sorely missing from the game since the beginning? Imperials have either large or small ships and nothing in between.

Yeah. It's like cars. Why all these different cars? Why not just have one? One car. One truck. One plane.

 

[House0fDerp]

So the only reason for the Crusader to exist is that? I might as well ask for a SLF variant of all ships who don't have SLF support.

Yes, the reason it was added was to provide an option people wanted. Same with every other ship. The reason not to add SLFs to every ship is equally obvious. Such options would be in many cases impossible to fit considering the internal size, and in others it would imbalance them compared to their peers designed around having fighters, like the Crusader.

I agree, player choice is very welcome, but the game has plenty of combat oriented ships in it already. How about some more trading ships? Or more exploration focused ships? Or a ship designed with mining as it's primary role? How about a medium passenger ship from Saud Kruger? Or a medium pad Imperial ship?

I have no problem with ship variants, but when said variants are all combat oriented then there is no variety.

Ship roles need to be varied in order to enable actual player choice.

Krait is actually a rather good exploration ship. The Type 10 is arguably best suited to RES mining. As far as trade, cargo+range trumps all meaning new options tend to either start obsolete or obsolete other options.

 

[Spacecat]

Lazy way to create "new content".

 

[CoyoteXStarrk]

I understand what you are saying, especially about the Clipper, but isn't that one of the bonuses of the game. There is no one ship that is perfect, there is no ship that every Commander has to have to survive in the game. So FD can put as many ships in as they want, someone will find favour with a certain ship, yet others will look at the same ship with distain. Look at the dichotomy of the player group, some only like small ships, some will only ever fly one of the big three, some have modified their ships to perform a very specific function and only ever use it for that use, others will stick with having generic builds that can perform multiple tasks. I would much rather have the current system FD are using than have a smaller collection of unique, purpose built ships that can only do one unique role.

As for the Clipper, if you love that ship, that is all that matters. Fly it, enjoy it, and stop worrying about it not having a niche, simply because no ship in the game has a unique niche.

I'm not saying the Clipper needs to be a perfect ship. I am saying that I wish it was a good ship. Its not even a good ship anymore. Before the Chieftan, Krait, and the Challenger it was arguably one of the better bounty hunting ships and now it doesn't even have that much. It carries less than the Python, is not as heavily armored as the Chieftan or Challenger, and has less shields than all of them.


Its fast and looks cool. Thats all it has now. It has been utterly outclassed by every other ship in the game regardless of what job you are trying to do. It does NOTHING better than any other ship now. All of this while taking up a large landing pad, being locked behind a rank grind, and having less cargo space than some of the medium sized ships in the game.



Its absurd.

 

[Alwayslate]

I don't know if it's the case so I'm just guessing. OP, are you just viewing these ships as a trader doing less to none combat activities? If so, none of the status matters and all the ships will look the same except pad size and capability of hauling. Only high intensity combats can reveal a ship's full maneuvering potential.

Yes, SLFs are garbage, when you just want more cargo space or have lower rank crew piloting. I suppose you won't say something like this anymore when you see an elite SLF take a lower rank ship down, i.e. a python, on its own.

Though I do agree that the gap between challenger and chieftain are smaller when seeing FDS - FAS comparison.

 

[Mengy]

Krait is actually a rather good exploration ship. The Type 10 is arguably best suited to RES mining. As far as trade, cargo+range trumps all meaning new options tend to either start obsolete or obsolete other options.

The Krait isn't a variant though. Honestly I feel like the Krait is one of the best designed ships Frontier has implemented since 1.0. It's just a nice well rounded vessel.

The T10, while primarily a combat ship, is a variant of the T9, a trading ship, and is a great example of how to do a variant ship well. The T9 and T10 while similar in chassis serve two very different purposes in the game.

The Chieftain/Challenger/Crusader are examples of variants done poorly. That's not because they all look similar which is fine, it's because they all are combat ships serving mostly the exact same purpose in the game with extremely similar stats. It would have been more value added if the Chieftain was a long range light combat ship which was also a far jumping scouting vessel suitable for exploration, the Challenger was a very capable combat ship to give the FDL a run for its money, and the Crusader was a heavy large SLF capable battleship which could also double as a capable high cargo trader too. THEN we'd have three Alliance ships all looking similar yet covering a wide range of roles and capabilities.

Instead we got three very similar looking and fighting pure combat ships. Which is just a huge waste of potential IMHO.

 

[Witcher 7]

I reckon Phantom will be a large ship and hope it'll be like a buffed Clipper [yesnod]

 

[CoyoteXStarrk]

I reckon Phantom will be a large ship and hope it'll be like a buffed Clipper [yesnod]

The Phantom? :S

 

[House0fDerp]

The Phantom? :S

Rumored ship that appeared briefly as an entry on the Frontier store in error alongside the crusader not too long ago. Since then it's generally been considered confirmed and a matter of time.

 

[krylite]

The Krait and Chieftan types are new and different enough from previous ships so I don't get what OP means about not having new ships.
As for chieftan->challenger->crusader, it's similar to the dropship->FAS->gunship for the feds.
SLF's also serve a purpose defending freighters or cargo carrying ships. One of the npc fighter crew backstories mention their freighter defending experience. An SLF can help distract an anaconda pirate while a T-9 gets more distance to make a getaway jump.

There were also whinging threads about the alliance not having any ships for a long while before Beyond. So in perspective FD is doing a decent job gradually rounding up the fleets for the major power types. Now there are complaints about the empire not having a medium ship, but there was so much cutter envy despite its drift, for the longest time, that FD sensibly filled out the alliance ships in due time first. FD can never win even if they please one camp eventually. There will always be complaints about some camp or another not served well enough, and always whinge threads out of impatience for something else when things eventually get addressed a year or two later. Same with any other long several years planned mmo shared verse franchise I'd think.

 

[CoyoteXStarrk]

Rumored ship that appeared briefly as an entry on the Frontier store in error alongside the crusader not too long ago. Since then it's generally been considered confirmed and a matter of time.

Oh. I thought people had said that was just a name for the Krait MK 2 that they never used. Hopefully its announced soon though.

 

[House0fDerp]

Oh. I thought people had said that was just a name for the Krait MK 2 that they never used. Hopefully its announced soon though.

Krait MK II is the "Krait Tornado" IIRC per a thread where people looked at their registered ship info.

 

[Dutchman141]

Yeah. It's like cars. Why all these different cars? Why not just have one? One car. One truck. One plane.

Different cars are fun, when there are different roads to drive on.
When there's only a highway, why bother buying a big old four 4x4?
When there's only dirt roads, why buying a Lambo?

Different ships are fine but there's only so much distinction in what you can use them for in ED.
Some people go to Sag A in a Sidewinder or FDL, this should simply not be possible just like driving the Paris/Dakar in a Lambo or a Formula One race in a John Deere.
Besides pvp you can use practically every ship for almost everything.
That's why I rather see more specific ships for specific forms of gameplay.
Releasing the Chieftain and two almost identical ships but all three for combat doesn't actually add anything to the game, it's not like we are short in combat ships.
The ships look good and new ones are definitely cool but aesthetics only go so far imho.

 

[Winegums]

Yeah. It's like cars. Why all these different cars? Why not just have one? One car. One truck. One plane.

No, it's not like one car, one truck, one plane. it's like they released a Honda Civic DX, LX, and SI...

I'm not saying the Clipper needs to be a perfect ship. I am saying that I wish it was a good ship. Its not even a good ship anymore. Before the Chieftan, Krait, and the Challenger it was arguably one of the better bounty hunting ships and now it doesn't even have that much. It carries less than the Python, is not as heavily armored as the Chieftan or Challenger, and has less shields than all of them.

Its fast and looks cool. Thats all it has now. It has been utterly outclassed by every other ship in the game regardless of what job you are trying to do. It does NOTHING better than any other ship now. All of this while taking up a large landing pad, being locked behind a rank grind, and having less cargo space than some of the medium sized ships in the game.

Its absurd.

Yup, my Clipper is collecting dust because it has so many drawbacks and no positives once I got my Corvette. It takes up a large pad and has terrible hard point convergence. I mean it's good for undermining and a bit of PVE in a CZ... but, again there's other ships that can be used for those tasks.

I'd love a medium size imperial ship that flies like a clipper and has the same fire power as a Krait. That would be a fun ship, and it would fill the gaping hole in the imperial line up.

I don't know if it's the case so I'm just guessing. OP, are you just viewing these ships as a trader doing less to none combat activities? If so, none of the status matters and all the ships will look the same except pad size and capability of hauling. Only high intensity combats can reveal a ship's full maneuvering potential.

Yes, SLFs are garbage, when you just want more cargo space or have lower rank crew piloting. I suppose you won't say something like this anymore when you see an elite SLF take a lower rank ship down, i.e. a python, on its own.

Though I do agree that the gap between challenger and chieftain are smaller when seeing FDS - FAS comparison.

I do a lot of BGS which is a mix of everything, PVE, mining, trading, hauling, etc.

I do a lot of PVE and consider the Krait a big disappointment, small ships will fly circles around it, whittling down the shields until you're forced to SC out of there. The pitch on the ship is marginally better than the Python which is already pretty poor. I love the hard points and the power distributor but I can't get past the fact that it flies like a brick. Since I don't use an SLF because of the reasons I listed in the OP and I can't be bothered to get an NPC to Elite because they suck up so many credits and kills.

 

[kofeyh]

Besides an SLF what's the point of all these cloned ships?

Fly them, then come back and advise. o7