Challenger = Chieftain = Crusader, Krait = Python... What's the point?

[Quantis Trap]

Clearly the point is that FD are delivering us the cut and paste content which they can deliver with minimum of effort and new bugs.

I can respect this choice if it means they're working hard on the big features for the 4th quarter release.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Yes, the reason it was added was to provide an option people wanted. Same with every other ship. The reason not to add SLFs to every ship is equally obvious. Such options would be in many cases impossible to fit considering the internal size, and in others it would imbalance them compared to their peers designed around having fighters, like the Crusader.

I'm sure most people who own a Python or FAS or FDS or FDL would wish to have some variant of their ship with a SLF but that alone won't be enough justification.

About the viability, you can nerf some other parameter of the variant for such purpose and I agree small ships with SLFs are silly.

 

[House0fDerp]

I'm sure most people who own a Python or FAS or FDS or FDL would wish to have some variant of their ship with a SLF but that alone won't be enough justification.

About the viability, you can nerf some other parameter of the variant for such purpose and I agree small ships with SLFs are silly.

The people who wanted a FAS/FDS with a fighter got the FGS and paid with speed/agility.

Those who wanted a Python with an SLF got the krait and paid with a class 6 slot.

So apparently it was a sufficient justification.

Or are you getting hung up on "variant" meaning literally sharing the same hull? In which case the Type 6 and Keelback apply and the FGS is just sitting there wondering if this news means everyone else just forgot about it too.

 

[Alwayslate]

I do a lot of BGS which is a mix of everything, PVE, mining, trading, hauling, etc.

I do a lot of PVE and consider the Krait a big disappointment, small ships will fly circles around it, whittling down the shields until you're forced to SC out of there. The pitch on the ship is marginally better than the Python which is already pretty poor. I love the hard points and the power distributor but I can't get past the fact that it flies like a brick. Since I don't use an SLF because of the reasons I listed in the OP and I can't be bothered to get an NPC to Elite because they suck up so many credits and kills.

I hope by giving out this reply you've modified your krait, because if you don't, most of the ships we have could be outrun by NPCs in small ships. Yes, the krait isn't superior in pitch rate, but it can boost frequently to make up for that. Short time, but frequent boost with light consumption on PD for good alignment and evasion. The python definitely don't have that. This with the SLF bay altogether, makes the krait one of the most powerful mid-sized ship in combats. The python, on the other hand, has similar slots with the krait and is a decent ship, but isn't much close to that title.

Now talking about the NPC crew, we all know ED's about grinding. If you don't do the grind, you're one step behind. Simple as that.

 

[Winegums]

I'm sure most people who own a Python or FAS or FDS or FDL would wish to have some variant of their ship with a SLF but that alone won't be enough justification.

Why would I want an SLF on my Python if the NPC system behind it is terrible and I would have to give up a cargo slot? I don't think SLF are horrible but the usability of them is extremely hampered by the need for an NPC that you have to train to elite status in order to be effective, pay a good % of your profits to, and god forbid you lose your ship with them on board because all that work goes down the drain.

 

[Winegums]

I hope by giving out this reply you've modified your krait, because if you don't, most of the ships we have could be outrun by NPCs in small ships. Yes, the krait isn't superior in pitch rate, but it can boost frequently to make up for that. Short time, but frequent boost with light consumption on PD for good alignment and evasion. The python definitely don't have that. This with the SLF bay altogether, makes the krait one of the most powerful mid-sized ship in combats. The python, on the other hand, has similar slots with the krait and is a decent ship, but isn't much close to that title.

I modded my Krait plenty, I did a bunch of engineering to try to make it viable, it still wasn't good enough. Boost turning only got me so far and the SLF NPC I had got blown up most of the time....

Now talking about the NPC crew, we all know ED's about grinding. If you don't do the grind, you're one step behind. Simple as that.

Like I said in the post above this one, the NPC pilot system is hot garbage and doesn't offer enough positives to justify using my game time and credits. I'd much rather just fly a ship that can actually fly properly to deal with smaller agile ships, like my Clipper or my Corvette.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

The people who wanted a FAS/FDS with a fighter got the FGS and paid with speed/agility.

Those who wanted a Python with an SLF got the krait and paid with a class 6 slot.

So apparently it was a sufficient justification.

Or are you getting hung up on "variant" meaning literally sharing the same hull? In which case the Type 6 and Keelback apply and the FGS is just sitting there wondering if this news means everyone else just forgot about it too.

The FDL and other medium ships are still waiting

Why would I want an SLF on my Python if the NPC system behind it is terrible and I would have to give up a cargo slot? I don't think SLF are horrible but the usability of them is extremely hampered by the need for an NPC that you have to train to elite status in order to be effective, pay a good % of your profits to, and god forbid you lose your ship with them on board because all that work goes down the drain.

IDK, I don't use multicrew very much but I also fail to see why SLF compatibility on the Challenger justifies its existence.

 

[House0fDerp]

I modded my Krait plenty, I did a bunch of engineering to try to make it viable, it still wasn't good enough. Boost turning only got me so far and the SLF NPC I had got blown up most of the time....

Interesting. I found it to work quite well unmodified. Not the most agile but no worse than the Corvette.

The FDL and other medium ships are still waiting

The FDL doesn't have too much to give to get one. Sparse internals already. The rest, speed and the C4 mount are what make it worthwhile.

Krait already has the Python covered as well as the Asps with its jump range if set up for it. Not really much else.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

The FDL doesn't have too much to give to get one. Sparse internals already. The rest, speed and the C4 mount are what make it worthwhile.

Krait already has the Python covered as well as the Asps with its jump range if set up for it. Not really much else.

There are more medium ships missing and the FDL could still donate something else than internals for a SLF, besides, the AspX is nothing like the Krait.

 

[Alwayslate]

I modded my Krait plenty, I did a bunch of engineering to try to make it viable, it still wasn't good enough. Boost turning only got me so far and the SLF NPC I had got blown up most of the time....

Krait pilots would disagree on that and I know there are plenty of them. If we are to discuss combat skill now it'll be like off topic.

Like I said in the post above this one, the NPC pilot system is hot garbage and doesn't offer enough positives to justify using my game time and credits. I'd much rather just fly a ship that can actually fly properly to deal with smaller agile ships, like my Clipper or my Corvette.

E rated modules are probably garbage compared to A rated ones. Does that make A rated ones garbage too? No. Elite (or something close) crew makes differences. You don't want to do the grind, fine by me. But if you take the biggest difference between the krait and the python away and talk about cloning, that's on you.

 

[House0fDerp]

There are more medium ships missing and the FDL could still donate something else than internals for a SLF, besides, the AspX is nothing like the Krait.

No, there really aren't. That covers the whole group save the FDL, which I still contend needs its key features to stand out. As far as the Asp being nothing like the Krait, tell that to the people retiring their Asps for one.

Python, AspX/S > Krait
FDS/FAS > FGS
Chieftain/Challenger > Crusader
Type 6 > Keelback

Yeah, that all of them but the FDL.

 

[IamNickMan]

I don't know much bout alliance ships. But the krait and python feel very different. They have different roles. And do very different things. Yes, they are similiar in a few ways, heat signature for example is similar (sadly). But one of the most glaring differences is the manouverablility, SLF (lol), & agility. They may start in a similar situation, have many roles that fit both, etc but even when you go the extra step and dive into engineering, they are different styles of ship. Frankly I've been able to do more with the krait's different combat builds than I ever cared to do with the python. The python to me was never more than a multirole transport ship.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

No, there really aren't. That covers the whole group save the FDL, which I still contend needs its key features to stand out. As far as the Asp being nothing like the Krait, tell that to the people retiring their Asps for one.

Python, AspX/S > Krait
FDS/FAS > FGS
Chieftain/Challenger > Crusader
Type 6 > Keelback

Yeah, that all of them but the FDL.

Sorry but no, the AspX is very different thant the Krait, more so with the AspS.

 

[Winegums]

E rated modules are probably garbage compared to A rated ones. Does that make A rated ones garbage too?

You get to keep your modules and the mods on them when your ship blows up, Modules don't have a running cost associated with them. This makes it worth the grind. Apples to Oranges.

How many do you think would do engineering or purchase A rated modules if they had the same negatives that NPC pilots do? What if engineered modules required you to pay a % rental/usage fee after your did the grind? What if you lost your D-A rated modules when your ship gets blown up and you get E rated modules when you rebuy? Sounds to me like that would be a pretty poor system for a game. I stand by my appraisal that the NPC system is garbage.

No. Elite (or something close) crew makes differences. You don't want to do the grind, fine by me. But if you take the biggest difference between the krait and the python away and talk about cloning, that's on you.

The whole point of this thread is discussing the why they're cloning ships appearance/ specs if the main difference is SLF capability. It's not contributing to the game much if you spit out an SLF ship that is a copy and paste of something you already have in the game. Not everyone wants to use Multicrew or bother with NPC/SLF which makes the cloned ship a down grade and waste of dev time. I'd much rather have a different medium size ship introduced that isn't a very specific side grade for those who want to grind for an Elite NPC.

 

[House0fDerp]

Sorry but no, the AspX is very different thant the Krait, more so with the AspS.

Disagree strongly, but you do you. The entire points that those ships are typically used for cross over to the Krait fully.

 

[Winegums]

Interesting. I found it to work quite well unmodified. Not the most agile but no worse than the Corvette.

The Corvette's sheilds can tank the DPS of a small ship and if the smaller ship doesn't want to get smashed by the nose they have to fly a larger arc. Once the two huge hard points are on target the DPS of the Corvette smashes it like a fly.

The Krait doesn't have the same situation, it pitches roughly the same speed but the smaller ships can fly a smaller arc around it and the shield capacity is usually found wanting at this point. Even when you do get on target the DPS isn't enough to make it last in a CZ or HAZ RES.

I'd honestly hoped that the Krait would have at least 15% more pitch than the Python but it only has 5%(?) difference. Basically it's forced to use a SLF if you don't want to get run off by a pair of evasive rail eagles chewing your shields down.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

Just the standard IV drip IMO

 

[kofeyh]

The whole point of this thread is discussing the why they're cloning ships appearance/ specs if the main difference is SLF capability.

Because they're building what people want; Elite has become a popularity contest and Frontier only do what they are asked or screamed at to do because anything consistent, or offering choice, must be purged at (quite literally) any cost.

Popular ships and mechanics get effort. This is why exploration has ended up being Q4 this year (going on 5 years since Alpha which is when it was already apparent it needed massive work) and the PP changes have ended up going nowhere and the missions system is just a wasteland of broken promise. Congratulations, everyone. Meanwhile; the band plays on.

It's like people are completely incapable of recognising they are the very arbiters of the outcomes they then complain, bitterly, about.

Maybe rather than obsessing about "why is frontier offering ship choice in a game about ships, where the single and only most worked bit of the game is the ships" maybe try like anything at all that is all but abandoned and see if you can, maybe, bring that laser like vision to that conundrum.

Or, you know, ask Frontier again why they are adding ship choices to a game about flying ships where that's the key mechanic. It's all good - you do you.

lol.

 

[Alwayslate]

You get to keep your modules and the mods on them when your ship blows up, Modules don't have a running cost associated with them. This makes it worth the grind. Apples to Oranges.

How many do you think would do engineering or purchase A rated modules if they had the same negatives that NPC pilots do? What if engineered modules required you to pay a % rental/usage fee after your did the grind? What if you lost your D-A rated modules when your ship gets blown up and you get E rated modules when you rebuy? Sounds to me like that would be a pretty poor system for a game. I stand by my appraisal that the NPC system is garbage.


The whole point of this thread is discussing the why they're cloning ships appearance/ specs if the main difference is SLF capability. It's not contributing to the game much if you spit out an SLF ship that is a copy and paste of something you already have in the game. Not everyone wants to use Multicrew or bother with NPC/SLF which makes the cloned ship a down grade and waste of dev time. I'd much rather have a different medium size ship introduced that isn't a very specific side grade for those who want to grind for an Elite NPC.

You don't use SLFs, fine. There're others using them. And SLFs do make differences in combats. Run from this again and this discussion's going nowhere. Whether credit sucking vampires are doing fine when they are doing nothing but still take a part in the profit, is off the point. I do think there are flaws in the crew (salary) system, but it doesn't matter at this point.

I've already mentioned boost rate and SLF bay for difference, and there're some other differences mentioned by other CMDRs. Whether you didn't know, you didn't want to use it, you didn't know how to use it, won't make them disappear.

 

[Stigbob]

We didn't chose this.

So choose not to use it.