Change My Mind

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Well you'll be buying it for them now? Or is it only nothing much when it's someone else's money? I took you at your word. don't let me down now.
Lol you dont get to unquote the rest of my post that addresses that already and expect anyone to take you seriously. Dont worry, you can keep screaming all you want on the forums after the change takes place.

So play "spreadsheets in space" then. Making it "Spreadsheets in space for a small number of us" won't fix anything.



You just did.

"Im just watching people like you say it"
You aren't like me. And you said it.

" like you just claimed. "
Where? You claimed people like me said it, not me.

Lol again with the unquoting to misrepresent.

Thats how you know youve lost your argument. When you have to misrepresent what someone is saying.
 
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More than a part of 12% when there are only 3 types apart from that.

Fascinating!
So, there were 4 'types', one of them was the majority, 2 of them were minorities and the last was . . . what? Care to elaborate?
I enjoy learning new concepts and words.
 
PP at the moment is a worst "spreadsheets in space" game at the moment. With is played about the same as CqC.
It is nothing but "spreadsheets in space", because the maximum impact is done here through solo/pg hauling. Thus, everything else is irrelevant. This is a competition, after all.

If they would try to buff Open ways instead of making it Open only, they would have to resort for bonuses like 800 merits per PvP kill, and x7 efficiency of actions in Open. Unlimited potential for abuse.
If they would limit impact on PP from solo to, lets say, 100 merits per day. Well, I like it, even way less than open only as there will be multiaccount abuse, but do PvE people like it?
If they would make PvP having some sort of irreplaceable role, whole system will stagnate untill everyone unlocks everything through Solo grind.

Without anything of this, PP will continue to exist as Farmville in space competition. Because maximum efficiency will be in solo grind, and PvP would stay irrelevant.

Spot on, and you are balancing things there in a way we have yet to see from FD.

I vote we put you in charge, will you be applying at Christmas?
 
Why should they leave it as is if it's not "fit for purpose" as you say?

Quite right. Just set fire to it, and get someone who knows what they are doing to design Powerplay 2.0

Oh hang on...Engineers 2.0.

Hmmm, it's a dilemma.
 
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So just for the record, it's only powerplay that is going to be locked into open only. You can still trade/explore/grind the BGS in solo/private, but this discussion is only about powerplay.
I am not convinced that undermining/fortifying/preparing from within solo play is healthy for powerplay as a whole.

You are not the one that needs to be convinced, that would be Sandro ;)

I'm in favour of the game encouraging increased player interaction, both co-operative and adversarial, and I hope the new PP proposal succeeds.

The biggest factor is the number of players affected. Some will return or new players will come, attracted by the change. And of course some will leave or generally be nonplussed by having (what may be to them) an important motivation to play removed. From FDev's perspective this is probably a win/win, they either boost sales (revenue boost) or have existing game owners play less (lowering variable infrastructure overhead). We don't have the numbers for this so it's pretty pointless to argue the case either way, it can only ever be conjecture.

So if my challenge is to play devils advocate to the OP's test my approach will need to be to undermine the premise that more power players is better.

I have previously challenged the OP to change my mind that PvP players can't organise anything meaningful because of internal bickering (clearly a blatant generalisation), so I'll continue on this approach and expand it:

I believe a significant number of what I shall call genuine power players will be pleased by this change (if implemented) because they believe it will give them an advantage over the status quo. I think players in solo & groups act for and against all powers so status quo will probably be maintained (no benefit, Power Play is not improved).

In addition there are a number of what I shall call 'true PvPers' (players interested only in fighting for the fun of it) who believe they will be able to use this change to pew with impunity. However imo the 'meek' players are more likely to simply leave PP than move to Open, and those new PP players will be the rather more robust returning players or new players seeking a challenge - This should be good for the 'true PvPer' community overall (in terms of population) but there will be fewer easy targets than some seem to be expecting, instead of being able to farm PP traders they will themselves be either farmed or any influence they hope to gain will be cancelled out - again status quo will be maintained.

So I don't believe this change will be good for PP, but it should be good for Open, making it a less toxic place as the gankers are rendered too busy defending themselves from each other to be effective against non-PP players.

So longer term Power Play will probably be no better off overall, but Open should become more palatable for those who currently avoid it as the PvP players will be too busy with each other to bother with the non-pledged.

As a final point MMO style gameplay does need some griefers to help keep the game exciting, but too many will kill the population quickly, so if the result of this PP change is not what I suggest above (ie it becomes griefer nirvana), the alternative is that the population playing in Open will nosedive, as of course will the by then Open only Power Play. Fortunately the game offers groups & solo so overall the game shouldn't suffer too much.

So the effects will either be to make Open a bit better, or a lot worse. Power Play will either broadly maintain it's population (as mentioned we don't have the figures to speculate reliably) or this will kill it off.
 
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verminstar

Banned
It is not my experience only, online multiplayer gaming experiences are widely regarded as a juvenile moron orgy by a great many players.

Cross ref: EVE, squeakers, TKers, seal clubbing, ganking, murderhobos, 'yr mom', etc etc etc. No thanks. And I'm not sceeeerd, it's just toxic crap compared to a good immersive single player game.

Yer tarring everyone with the same brush which I dont think is wrong, I know it is. I never once tried to say that multiplayer doesnt have undesirable characters, I merely said ye were gravely mistaken if ye think the whole of multiplayer is rotten to the core...its not in reality...but it is in your mind.

Ive been playing online games fer going on 30 years...so hows about a few examples from your extensive experience hmm?

Also...elite is not sold as a single player gaming experience. If thats why ye bought the game, then ye bought the wrong game Im afraid ^
 
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Jex =TE=

Banned
A chance to interact. Find out if its noobs who dont know wahts going on. Talk to them and recruit them to the coordinated movement. See if its truly 5C and attack, take note of names and hunt those names, make them as ineffecient as possible and maybe discourage them enough to get them to stop. Instead of competitive space truckers 3304

You already interact with the players that play in Open - so it's to force people to play with you, how mature. Or it's an experiment - wasting dev time - dev time that could go elsewhere. All because you want more people to shoot down or for a pointless experiment just to satisfy your curiosity?

Well, shooting down bombers worked alright for the RAF.

It didn't though, did it? I thought that was Hitler being an idiot that saved us from losing all our RADAR and airfields.
 
You are not the one that needs to be convinced, that would be Sandro ;)

I'm in favour of the game encouraging increased player interaction, both co-operative and adversarial, and I hope the new PP proposal succeeds.

The biggest factor is the number of players affected. Some will return or new players will come, attracted by the change. And of course some will leave or generally be nonplussed by having (what may be to them) an important motivation to play removed. From FDev's perspective this is probably a win/win, they either boost sales (revenue boost) or have existing game owners play less (lowering variable infrastructure overhead). We don't have the numbers for this so it's pretty pointless to argue the case either way, it can only ever be conjecture.

So if my challenge is to play devils advocate to the OP's test my approach will need to be to undermine the premise that more power players is better.

I have previously challenged the OP to change my mind that PvP players can't organise anything meaningful because of internal bickering (clearly a blatant generalisation), so I'll continue on this approach and expand it:

I believe a significant number of what I shall call genuine power players will be pleased by this change (if implemented) because they believe it will give them an advantage over the status quo. I think players in solo & groups act for and against all powers so status quo will probably be maintained (no benefit, Power Play is not improved).

In addition there are a number of what I shall call 'true PvPers' (players interested only in fighting for the fun of it) who believe they will be able to use this change to pew with impunity. However imo the 'meek' players are more likely to simply leave PP than move to Open, and those new PP players will be the rather more robust returning players or new players seeking a challenge - This should be good for the 'true PvPer' community overall (in terms of population) but there will be fewer easy targets than some seem to be expecting, instead of being able to farm PP traders they will themselves be either farmed or any influence they hope to gain will be cancelled out - again status quo will be maintained.

So I don't believe this change will be good for PP, but it should be good for Open, making it a less toxic place as the gankers are rendered too busy defending themselves to be effective against non-PP players.

So longer term Power Play will probably be no better off overall, but Open should become more palatable for those who currently avoid it as the PvP players will be too busy with each other to bother with the non-pledged.

As a final point MMO style gameplay does need some griefers to help keep the game exciting, but too many will kill the population quickly, so if the result of this PP change is not what I suggest above (ie it becomes griefer nirvana), the alternative is that the population playing in Open will nosedive, as of course will the by then Open only Power Play. Fortunately the game offers groups & solo so overall the game shouldn't suffer too much.

So the effects will either be to make Open a bit better, or a lot worse. Power Play will either broadly maintain it's population (as mentioned we don't have the figures to speculate reliably) or this will kill it off.

How could the proposal 'make open griefer nirvana and kill open off'? Why will there be more griefers in open if soloplayers cant do pp?
 
There is no need to change your mind. Your opinion is perfectly valid and reasonable. Just like the opinions of those who are against it. I've read a few hundred posts on this issue and both sides have valid arguments. I get this is not about being right or wrong but about personal preferences.
 
You already interact with the players that play in Open - so it's to force people to play with you, how mature. Or it's an experiment - wasting dev time - dev time that could go elsewhere. All because you want more people to shoot down or for a pointless experiment just to satisfy your curiosity?



It didn't though, did it? I thought that was Hitler being an idiot that saved us from losing all our RADAR and airfields.

Its to force 5c and opposition to play in a space they can actually be confronted by the powers as a whole. Not about me personally. Believe it or not some people actually are capable of discussing something in the context of how itll affect the game. A nameless and faceless enemy working against you somewhere you can never stop them takes the wind right of the sail of players when they realize thats whats happening. Seen many groups lose interest for that very reason.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
No ive travelled quite a bit and met many people. If you can afford video games 9/10 times you can afford the subscription too. And if you cant afford the subscription you can exactly afford to vote with your wallet in any other meaningful capacity now can you? Seems you misunderstood my point.

Anecdotel evidence is useless.

Nobody's is talking about being able to afford a subscription. Could you possible reply to the actual points being made?

People can choose to buy a subscription or they can choose NOT too - what is so hard about that?
 
Anecdotel evidence is useless.

Nobody's is talking about being able to afford a subscription. Could you possible reply to the actual points being made?

People can choose to buy a subscription or they can choose NOT too - what is so hard about that?

Nothing. If they are chosing then theres no issue at all. Because then they are the ones chosing to limit their content. Not fdev. So its a non issue.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
I think you are missing mine. Its OK to be beaten fairly, when you can see your enemy and that they are not in some extra-dimensional space attacking you. From the start small powers knew fighting larger ones would be difficult.

Archon Delaine fought the Pegasi Wars against the Imperial Powers though cunning and guile. They came out alive because everyone played by the rules and we could fight properly.



Yes, it will cost the 5C a lot of cash replacing Cutter after Cutter. After a while they would have to stop and make more money.

No, not at all. Look, what happens when you take away solo from both sides - nothing! They cancel each other out like David Braben has said, the guy who made thye game - it's his game, he knows so you're saying the creator of Elite Dangerous is wrong?

So now that we know they don't make a difference, why do they need removing and why do we need to waste dev time on this less important part of the game over parts where work is desperately needed?
 
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