Competitive activity or not does not matter. The combat logging exploit is used to avoid how the game works (cheating the game) no matter the game mode.
Combat logging no longer an exploit? * trigger warning *
- Thread starter bladebss
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Deleted member 121570
D
Just playing devil's advocate here, but...
What if someone decides they don't want to play anymore and just turns off their console/PC, rather than log out. Would this look functionally different from the task-kill thing?
Why would someone's freedom to play/not play and exit the game in a manner of their own choosing on their own kit be a problem?
Why should it matter at what point in the game this occurs?
Arguably, infringing freedom to do what you want with your own console/PC might be considered a larger problem. Are FDev really saying in their EULA - "by using this software, you give us permission to dictate what you do with your own equipment in your own home"?
It looks on the face of it that they're mostly saying "don't harass or abuse people, don't mess with our code and/or don't defraud us". As long as you're not doing that, then I guess legally...you're compliant with the EULA terms. Simply turning off your machine doesn't violate those terms - You're not using the game to do anything, because your equipment isn't even on.
FDev aren't legally entitled to a single second of any player's time (or electricity) and neither is any other player.
There's no actual harm created by a CL, so really - it's just a socially unacceptable thing to do. It's against the spirit of the game, of course. The community and players are right to therefore frown upon it.
But it's not a 'cheat' in the sense of hacking, reverse engineering or using 3rd party software to automate stuff. It's someone just deciding not to play at that moment.
They might even change their mind a few minutes later and log back in to play again. Or not. Just because that moment isn't convenient for someone else seems largely irrelevant in any other way than a social faux-pas.
What if someone decides they don't want to play anymore and just turns off their console/PC, rather than log out. Would this look functionally different from the task-kill thing?
Why would someone's freedom to play/not play and exit the game in a manner of their own choosing on their own kit be a problem?
Why should it matter at what point in the game this occurs?
Arguably, infringing freedom to do what you want with your own console/PC might be considered a larger problem. Are FDev really saying in their EULA - "by using this software, you give us permission to dictate what you do with your own equipment in your own home"?
It looks on the face of it that they're mostly saying "don't harass or abuse people, don't mess with our code and/or don't defraud us". As long as you're not doing that, then I guess legally...you're compliant with the EULA terms. Simply turning off your machine doesn't violate those terms - You're not using the game to do anything, because your equipment isn't even on.
FDev aren't legally entitled to a single second of any player's time (or electricity) and neither is any other player.
There's no actual harm created by a CL, so really - it's just a socially unacceptable thing to do. It's against the spirit of the game, of course. The community and players are right to therefore frown upon it.
But it's not a 'cheat' in the sense of hacking, reverse engineering or using 3rd party software to automate stuff. It's someone just deciding not to play at that moment.
They might even change their mind a few minutes later and log back in to play again. Or not. Just because that moment isn't convenient for someone else seems largely irrelevant in any other way than a social faux-pas.
In order to be disciplined for Combat logging, you would need to be reported.
For that to happen, I would guess that the investigator would look at the logs fo the person logging the CLOG and whether you were in an active peer-to-peer session at the time when you dropped connection.
I would guess that you wouldn't get a CLOG report if you just task killed during regular play.
Trying to work out the reasons why someone would Combat log, I came up with the following scenarios:
1) Avoiding seal clubbing - you are new starter and are still learning the ropes - you have been interdicted by an overpowered ship
2) Advanced seal clubbing - Same as above but at Shinrata. You have just bought a shiny new ship, spent all of your credits and there is someone waiting outside to teach you how to 'Git Gud'
3) Robbery - You have a particularly full hold of expensive goods (LTD, Void Opals etc) and someone wants to relieve you of all the hard work that you have put into the past x hours.
4) Tables turned - Someone has tried 3), only to find that they have hit someone who has a better ship than them and wants to get the hell out of dodge.
Of the above examples, only one of them was consensual PvP engagement. Three would be in response to someone else's expectation of what they want you to do in their game.
A poorly written post still conveys information... and if you're too stuck on only grammatically correct posts should be read then it's your loss, the amount of times I've read 'then' instead of 'than' and 'their/there' instead of 'they're makes' my brain ache sometimes, but the information is often worth it.
Not everyone is English, and not everyone proofreads what they post.
Doesn't ganking violate the very same term highlighted?
After all:
4.4 You may not use the Game or any Online Features in a manner that could damage, disable, impair, overburden or compromise our systems or security or interfere with the experience of other users of the Game or any Online Feature.
Works both ways, surely?
![[VR] DDM_Reaper20](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/44/44021.jpg?1588332101){kind=avatar}
Doesn't ganking violate the very same term highlighted?
After all:
4.4 You may not use the Game or any Online Features in a manner that could damage, disable, impair, overburden or compromise our systems or security or interfere with the experience of other users of the Game or any Online Feature.
Works both ways, surely?
An interesting proposition. I'd say it does not, provided the ganking is not done excessively to one and the same person. For instance, gunning down a player once (without giving any reason, which may be difficult to do, anyway (try typing anything while playing in VR, it's not all that easy) -- no.
On the other hand, "spawn-killing" somebody, i.e., intercepting somebody who's coming from a port and constantly sending them back to afore mentioned port by gunning them down -- that might be construed as harassment (though in that case, I should wonder the other player does not switch to solo/PG until he or she is out of the system).
The text above is lawyers' speak, which always requires interpretation, and with good reason. If it was as simple as simply destroying somebody's ship without consent, gameplay would suffer accordingly. (I am NOT defending seal-clubbing or anything like that, nor hounding somebody mercilessly.)
I remember the side-splitting tale of a CMDR here who informed others about his exploits with regard to teaching seminars about "not flying without rebuy." Cracked me up, and reminded me that this is a game, and one catering to folks who aren't quite that young -- and prepared to invest lots of time into this activity. This ain't Fortnite, after all.--
Hair-splitting is always fun... I just chuckled when I read the highlighted used to condemn one action, when using the very same loose interpretation it could be used to condemn another!
My take has always been one of "if you don't want to be blown up for any reason, pick a mode that accomodates it", but in the nicest of ways
I'm easy, I just play and enjoy whatever I'm doing in-game at the time.
ETA: Although I do find it very curious that some folk consider spoiling another's fun is fine, but complain if their fun is ruined...
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Hair-splitting is always fun... I just chuckled when I read the highlighted used to condemn one action, when using the very same loose interpretation it could be used to condemn another!
My take has always been one of "if you don't want to be blown up for any reason, pick a mode that accomodates it", but in the nicest of ways
I'm easy, I just play and enjoy whatever I'm doing in-game at the time.
ETA: Although I do find it very curious that some folk consider spoiling another's fun is fine, but complain if their fun is ruined...
What can I say? My father was a professor of law at a German university. He got his MCL (Master of Comparative Law) while reading law in Chicago. Runs in the blood, I guess.
He trained his children well. We are all pretty argumentative, in case you hadn't noticed...
I do enjoy a good argument so much... Thank you.
A great argument is always polite, and always enjoyable!What can I say? My father was a professor of law at a German university. He got his MCL (Master of Comparative Law) while reading law in Chicago. Runs in the blood, I guess.
He trained his children well. We are all pretty argumentative, in case you hadn't noticed...
I do enjoy a good argument so much... Thank you.
Long may we differ
The Replicated Man
T
Combat logging by definition is by task killing or pulling the ethernet cord to escape rebuy due to an unwanted hostile interaction in-game. This in itself is against the rules and frontier themselves have said so.
Menu Logging is attempting to escape an unwanted hostile interaction by exiting to the main menu, but having to wait for the 15-second timer to wind down. Usually fails.
Menu Logging is not cheating according to the game devs, it was put there for a reason. HOWEVER, it is treated the same way as task killing by the majority of the Elite Dangerous PvP Community, despite what the devs have said.
If you combat log on a pvp pilot, you will most likely end up on r/elitecombatloggers subreddit with a video of you logging. This will hurt your PvP career if you choose to go down that path later on, as people will check to see if you are on that sub.
My advice? Don't log period. Take the rebuy, even if it stings. Money is very easy to make in-game, and the tradeoff is not worth it if you log IMO.
someone may have pointed this out, i don't know. i didn't slog through the entire thread.
but you spelled "subtlety" wrong on your Pilot's License.
Bounty hunting of players, pirating of players, and any sort of player-based policing can't ever be a thing if targets can just vanish without consequence, and we're expected to "take that as a win" even though we don't get the bounty, cargo, or intended negative consequence for the target.
Because you won so hard, you chased them right out of the galaxy. Nice job. o7
This may be of utmost importance to you and the way you play the game but I can't see you earning a living at PvP in Elite Dangerous, it's a game that attempts to, and should allow different minded people to play the same game without worrying if they're offending others, if FDev (the company who's game it is) says menu logging is OK then you (a player of their game) have no recourse if someone doesn't wish to play 'pew pew' with you.
Those that log out of a fight or confrontation should be able to do so without worrying about what you think... do you worry about how they'll feel about being shot at? I doubt that very much, I can see two types of player logging on a combat, the first doesn't want a fight and should not be forced to, and the second would be one that has no future in a 'PvP career' as you put it, if they log they're not learning and don't wish to, so it's a waste of time you worrying about it.
From a roleplay perspective you could justify it that way, but that doesn't fix things from a gameplay mechanics standpoint. Still no bounty. Still no negative consequence for the target.
The Replicated Man
T
That's the thing. I have no intention of earning a living PvPing in this game. I PvP because it's fun. If I want to earn credits, I mine just like everyone else. I explore just like everyone else.
... then I apologise for misunderstanding what you meant by "hurting a PvP career" I thoughtyou meant a 'Career in life' rather than a ingame one,
However, that doesn't change my view on the post at all, if someone doesn't wish to play what you wish to play then your rules don't apply.
The Replicated Man
T
I was referring to someone wanting to start out in PvP, and another PvP pilot finding out that they combat logged in the past. Noone will want you in their group, and you won't be taken seriously.
Which is a bit stupid, sins of the past and all that. I'd rather play with someone who once combat logged but learned it's crap, than
with people witch-hunting others (sometimes for not knowing better).
But the reddits are mostly for people who do it repeatedly if I read them correct. I hope.
The Replicated Man
T
For me personally, I don't care if someone logs on me or not. If it happens, meh. I go about my day. Doesn't stop me from talking to them or fighting them down the road.
Others, yeah. Thats why I said what I said earlier.