Copy what works from the competition.

[Darrack]

I think it'll be a whole lot easier to copy elements of Elite into Starfield rather than the other way around, especially after modders have had significant time to really get under the hood and see how things work. Granted, I don't see Stellar Forge coming to Starfield (though who knows), but a more realistic flight model with HOTAS support is not out of the question I think. I also bet we'll see proper copies (not ad-hoc builds) of a variety of famous sci-fi ships starting to appear in Starfield over time, including some Elite ships, assuming a modder wishes to spend the time making them.

This is fine in a single player game but i wouldn't want modders anywhere near Elite as an MMO, hacking is bad enough as it is.
It also says something when a game is only any good when you have to add mods to make it work (looking at you Skyrim).
Ive played and loved the ES games all the way since Daggerfall but Bethesda are one of the most overrated developers in history.

O7

 

[Florenus]

I think it'll be a whole lot easier to copy elements of Elite into Starfield rather than the other way around, especially after modders have had significant time to really get under the hood and see how things work. Granted, I don't see Stellar Forge coming to Starfield (though who knows), but a more realistic flight model with HOTAS support is not out of the question I think. I also bet we'll see proper copies (not ad-hoc builds) of a variety of famous sci-fi ships starting to appear in Starfield over time, including some Elite ships, assuming a modder wishes to spend the time making them.

As far as I can see, Starfield is just Skyrim/Fallout in space, which means that space flight elements are seriously restricted by the engine and this is the whole reason why it works and plays as it does. That's why everything is made of small maps (which sadly includes space regions) and fast travel is simply necessary to make it playable.
If Bethesda would use Elite engine and build thier RPG using it (With Odyssey its almost ready minus base building and modular ship design), it might have been really amazing.

 

[Nephthys Vasudan]

the excuses are endless... my friend forgive me, but in your case, they are also bad.

Said by someone living in a fantasy world - but you do you.

 

[Nephthys Vasudan]

As far as I can see, Starfield is just Skyrim/Fallout in space, which means that space flight elements are seriously restricted by the engine and this is the whole reason why it works and plays as it does. That's why everything is made of small maps (which sadly includes space regions) and fast travel is simply necessary to make it playable.
If Bethesda would use Elite engine and build thier RPG using it (With Odyssey its almost ready minus base building and modular ship design), it might have been really amazing.

Starfield isn't even close to Skyrim or Fallout imho (namely the open world aspect) - from what I've heard it falls short quite a bit.
That could change in the future - but frankly I'm not regretting my decision to skip the launch.

 

[Florenus]

Starfield isn't even close to Skyrim or Fallout imho (namely the open world aspect) - from what I've heard it falls short quite a bit.
That could change in the future - but frankly I'm not regretting my decision to skip the launch.

I'm only talking about the engine the game is built upon and it's the same thing Skyrim or Fallout used. It has it's limits and those are clearly visible when the game attempts space flight parts. It looks like a total conversion mod for Fallout - not something that it was designed to do, but somehow made to imitate.
There's this weird paradox about the game, because Starfierld is obviously much, much bigger than Skyrim or Fallout, but I think because it splits the world into small chunks player is forced to fast travel between, the whole world somehow feels smaller.

 

[oblivionmanman 2476]

i can play elite dangerous np to play starfieid ill have to upgrade it a not online game so it will still be there to-morrow or whenever. anyway ed is not to be compared with starfield. there is no comparison.work it out,sad realy for those that think that its the same as.

 

[Nephthys Vasudan]

I'm only talking about the engine the game is built upon and it's the same thing Skyrim or Fallout used. It has it's limits and those are clearly visible when the game attempts space flight parts. It looks like a total conversion mod for Fallout - not something that it was designed to do, but somehow made to imitate.
There's this weird paradox about the game, because Starfierld is obviously much, much bigger than Skyrim or Fallout, but I think because it splits the world into small chunks player is forced to fast travel between, the whole world somehow feels smaller.

Nailed it in one honestly.

I totally get the "scope" argument - but its the "idea" that Skyrim gives - I've played both Skyrim and Fallout - damn near total freedom within reason.
Starfield however has obvious "Barriers" - while normal/atypical in any adventure game - the fact they are blatantly there and the immersion is disrupted - it makes it seem like a imitation of Mass Effect but in my honest opinion - falls short.

In Skyrim you could totally go wandering off the trail and 3 hours later find yourself completely lost and the other side of the map where you should have been and maybe broke a few quests along the way.

Fallout - same thing.

I don't hear this kind of "feeling" or "impression" about starfield - all I hear is "forced" grins and "its fun" but half hearted. It's like people have accepted "less" is "more".

Sure - graphics - other aspects - impressive engine - but I'm starting to think they half ###### it - and now people are waiting on Mods to make up for it - seems kind of poor form. For anyone to buy a game for mods alone to make it better? Waste of money.

Course I could be blowing air out of my rear end but the point stands - Elite Dangerous is so much better imho to Starfield - and I accept the fact they are not even the same genre.

And why? Sheer freedom and scope.
Even EVE Online is better in that regard - and frankly - I was expecting to see more "Space flight" and less - roaming/fast traveling in terms of what people spoke about.

Yeah - the game is larger sure - but larger doesn't necessarily mean "better" - and that's all subjective at best.

My viewpoint is subject to correction - but ill wait for it to go on sale first.

Elite Dangerous is nothing like Starfield - is it better? worse? - Frankly the OP can't handle the truth. Nor would he be capable of comprehending the facts.

Which is why I STILL play the game - regardless of FDev's mindset.

Can Elite Dangerous grab things from their competitors? Frankly I'm tired of games ripping each other off for all kinds of garbage that seem to think it would win here or there.
I'm content to ask FDev to just put their heart back into the game and let the game develop on its own merits - originality is key.

Starfield is just overhyped and not that great.
Elite Dangerous can be vastly better without its influence - if anything Starfield could learn a few things from Elite Dangerous.

As backwards as it sounds - well I'd not continue spending money or investing in this game if I didn't have hope FDev would wake up and start pushing harder.

Don't need them taking lessons from Bethesda who frankly is nothing like what they used to be.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

I remembered I have got a free 1 month subscription to Gamepass with my PC that I hadn't claimed so used that to get Starfield. (As a freebie for the month I can't complain)
Started it up this morning and after dumping the artefact at the Lodge I set out.
Still finding my feet @lvl5 this evening but obviously it's not a replacement for Elite.
I do like the crafting system and base building and ship building are intriguing, but I came up against the question of "what is the game offering that Odyssey isn't?"
The answer seems to be boarding actions so I'm considering building a ship with the express intention of of disabling, grappling and assaulting other ships (Have I somehow joined the Kumo Krew in Starfield?) Still some way off that yet so there's a degree of scavenging to be done.
I might as well be playing a completely different game to the other half who's busy learning spells for her space wizard to cast.

 

[Old Duck]

As far as I can see, Starfield is just Skyrim/Fallout in space, which means that space flight elements are seriously restricted by the engine and this is the whole reason why it works and plays as it does. That's why everything is made of small maps (which sadly includes space regions) and fast travel is simply necessary to make it playable.
If Bethesda would use Elite engine and build thier RPG using it (With Odyssey its almost ready minus base building and modular ship design), it might have been really amazing.

There is "flying around" and even space combat in Starfield, however. Much of my playtime in Elite was "fast travel" (hyperspace and supercruise) to a relatively small sector of space, be it a RES or CZ or installation, and then flying around that small sector of space blowing things up. From what I've seen in videos, Starfield provides this gameplay. What Starfield does not provide (again based solely on the comments of others) is a realistic flight model that makes space combat so enjoyable in games like Elite and X4. I feel like this could be modded into Starfield, as long as the game engine supports 6DoF and acceleration vectors.

Does Starfield provide 6DoF? What about an equivalent to FA-off?

As for seamlessly flying from space to the surface of a planet, or flying over the planet for hours on end, I can live without these things in a game like Starfield. I've got other games to scratch this itch (MSFS, Space Engine, etc). It's very rare that I used "slow travel" in Elite - for example, if I went from one settlement on a planet to another settlement on the same planet, I'd always supercruise into orbit and then super-glide back down again. There are times I wished there truly was a fast travel cutscene in Elite.

What about landing and taking off - does the pilot do that, or is even that part of the cutscene? If I can't even land or take off as a pilot, that would be disheartening to me..

 

[Darth Ender]

i'm reading a lot of misdirection about game comparisons and not a lot about the reasons why specific mechanics or features would not improve the game.

some features I'd like to see borrowed from other games... these are all things done in other games that i think would be beneficial to have in elite.

1. modding, third party servers (mods would be whitelisted as desired).

2. ship building mechanic using prebuilt pieces to replace faceless module method of customizing.

3. text to speech / ai npc chatter. really anything is better than hearing the same 10 phrases for 8 years and having different npc types using the same subset.

4. offline narrative ( this can follow the history of the online narrative but allow players to start at the beginning and progress at their own pace)

5. player driven economy for cap ship gameplay. no overlap with credit based economy. factions more dependent on player activity to provide things that can be purchased with credits.


6. salvage and modification recipes that instead of reward needing the same recipe repeatedly, it provides attributes to the collected components that can be combined together in allowable slots and these items wear out with use and become less effective until replaced. (no insurance replacement on them)


7. base building. this can take the form of carriers being your base. full interior modifications and exterior cosmetics. aspects can be unlocked in game as well as paid purchases. not ship skins to the base carrier but actual functional variations (different docking options, interior layouts , etc)

8. escort mechanics and persistent npcs across instances.

9. branching mission trees that pop up customized to a local faction but generically lead to certain unlocks or events unique to completing the mission tree.


10. npc wingmen / crew


11. cat companions (pets)

 

[BirdWisdom]

In my opinion Elite Dangerous is a mile wide and an inch deep while Starfield is a mile deep and an inch wide.

I like the both games but I think it's a shame there aren't game engines out there that really support both in the same cookie jar where it could be a mile wide and a mile deep at the sametime.

And today's game engines use to have bugs in it where the game developers have to struggling around them where it often changes the game development and time.

 

[metatheurgist]

In my opinion Elite Dangerous is a mile wide and an inch deep while Starfield is a mile deep and an inch wide.

Bethesda's spacefaring adventure has its moments with impressive scale, satisfying combat, and some worthwhile side quests, but its shallow RPG systems and uninspired vision of the cosmos make for a journey that's a mile wide, but an inch deep.

Starfield Review - To Infinity, But Not Beyond

Bethesda's spacefaring adventure has its moments with impressive scale, satisfying combat, and some worthwhile side quests, but its shallow RPG systems and uninspired vision of the cosmos make for a journey that's a mile wide, but an inch deep.

www.gamespot.com

Opinions are funny.

 

[MUTILADOR]

i'm reading a lot of misdirection about game comparisons and not a lot about the reasons why specific mechanics or features would not improve the game.

some features I'd like to see borrowed from other games... these are all things done in other games that i think would be beneficial to have in elite.

1. modding, third party servers (mods would be whitelisted as desired).

2. ship building mechanic using prebuilt pieces to replace faceless module method of customizing.

3. text to speech / ai npc chatter. really anything is better than hearing the same 10 phrases for 8 years and having different npc types using the same subset.

4. offline narrative ( this can follow the history of the online narrative but allow players to start at the beginning and progress at their own pace)

5. player driven economy for cap ship gameplay. no overlap with credit based economy. factions more dependent on player activity to provide things that can be purchased with credits.


6. salvage and modification recipes that instead of reward needing the same recipe repeatedly, it provides attributes to the collected components that can be combined together in allowable slots and these items wear out with use and become less effective until replaced. (no insurance replacement on them)


7. base building. this can take the form of carriers being your base. full interior modifications and exterior cosmetics. aspects can be unlocked in game as well as paid purchases. not ship skins to the base carrier but actual functional variations (different docking options, interior layouts , etc)

8. escort mechanics and persistent npcs across instances.

9. branching mission trees that pop up customized to a local faction but generically lead to certain unlocks or events unique to completing the mission tree.


10. npc wingmen / crew


11. cat companions (pets)

totally agree

 

[MUTILADOR]

Bethesda's spacefaring adventure has its moments with impressive scale, satisfying combat, and some worthwhile side quests, but its shallow RPG systems and uninspired vision of the cosmos make for a journey that's a mile wide, but an inch deep.

Starfield Review - To Infinity, But Not Beyond

Bethesda's spacefaring adventure has its moments with impressive scale, satisfying combat, and some worthwhile side quests, but its shallow RPG systems and uninspired vision of the cosmos make for a journey that's a mile wide, but an inch deep.

www.gamespot.com

Opinions are funny.

He's comparing it to E.D.

in that almost if he is right. but because E.D is not an RPG or let's say it doesn't take it to that level with its missions.

 

[Nephthys Vasudan]

He's comparing it to E.D.

in that almost if he is right. but because E.D is not an RPG or let's say it doesn't take it to that level with its missions.

And once again you contradicted your original post/previous arguments without even realizing it.
You can't have it both ways - pick a lane and stay in it.

 

[MUTILADOR]

I think we are deviating from the main topic.

Of course, Starfield could copy a lot of things from Elite Dangerous, but this is Frontier's forum, not Bethesda's.
What interests me is that Elite Dangerous develops. If I get to try Starfiled it will be after the mods improve the experience to something more similar to my interests.
But I stress, the idea of creating a system where you can create your own ship through modules, would kill several birds with one stone after years of community requests to E.D.

 

[MUTILADOR]

And once again you contradicted your original post/previous arguments without even realizing it.
You can't have it both ways - pick a lane and stay in it.

Maybe I expressed myself badly... English is not my main language. I refer to BirdWisdom's comment, Metatheurgist I don't get it right

 

[Florenus]

There is "flying around" and even space combat in Starfield, however. Much of my playtime in Elite was "fast travel" (hyperspace and supercruise) to a relatively small sector of space, be it a RES or CZ or installation, and then flying around that small sector of space blowing things up. From what I've seen in videos, Starfield provides this gameplay. What Starfield does not provide (again based solely on the comments of others) is a realistic flight model that makes space combat so enjoyable in games like Elite and X4. I feel like this could be modded into Starfield, as long as the game engine supports 6DoF and acceleration vectors.

Does Starfield provide 6DoF? What about an equivalent to FA-off?

As for seamlessly flying from space to the surface of a planet, or flying over the planet for hours on end, I can live without these things in a game like Starfield. I've got other games to scratch this itch (MSFS, Space Engine, etc). It's very rare that I used "slow travel" in Elite - for example, if I went from one settlement on a planet to another settlement on the same planet, I'd always supercruise into orbit and then super-glide back down again. There are times I wished there truly was a fast travel cutscene in Elite.

What about landing and taking off - does the pilot do that, or is even that part of the cutscene? If I can't even land or take off as a pilot, that would be disheartening to me..

I'm afraid I don't know what 6DoF is...
But space flight in Starfield is rather simple and it reminds me of NMS for example. No FA-Off or anything like that.
And space map near planet or some other POI selectable on system map is the only part where you control your ship if you want to fly around (in circles). That part reminds me of first Privateer - star system was built of few small regions, usually around some planet or space outpost represented by a sprite, and you used autopilot to travel between them - it's almost identical in Starfield. When you want to land on planet you open your character menu and map there and select a spot on the planet (port or some random place), then there's a chance for short landing cutscene and your ship is landed. What's interesting, you can do that while standing on one planet and selecting planet on the other side of galaxy map - no need to actually travel there. Once you've been to a place, you can fast travel there from anywhere. No landing, taking off, or anything.

I think we should not treat Starfield as space flying game. It's not even close to games like Elite in that regard. It's an RPG like Skyrim, but with some space flight modded in for flavour.
Closest comparison would be to Mass Effect I think. There was a ship too, but it served more as a moving base than anything else.

But I can't stop thinking how fantastic it would be to have some elements present in Starfield implemented in Elite.

 

[amigacooke]

.But I can't stop thinking how fantastic it would be to have some elements present in Starfield implemented in Elite.

Have a look at the Elite Dangerous Kickstarter and see what was trailed as coming.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I'm afraid I don't know what 6DoF is...
But space flight in Starfield is rather simple and it reminds me of NMS for example. No FA-Off or anything like that.
And space map near planet or some other POI selectable on system map is the only part where you control your ship if you want to fly around (in circles). That part reminds me of first Privateer - star system was built of few small regions, usually around some planet or space outpost represented by a sprite, and you used autopilot to travel between them - it's almost identical in Starfield. When you want to land on planet you open your character menu and map there and select a spot on the planet (port or some random place), then there's a chance for short landing cutscene and your ship is landed. What's interesting, you can do that while standing on one planet and selecting planet on the other side of galaxy map - no need to actually travel there. Once you've been to a place, you can fast travel there from anywhere. No landing, taking off, or anything.

I think we should not treat Starfield as space flying game. It's not even close to games like Elite in that regard. It's an RPG like Skyrim, but with some space flight modded in for flavour.
Closest comparison would be to Mass Effect I think. There was a ship too, but it served more as a moving base than anything else.

But I can't stop thinking how fantastic it would be to have some elements present in Starfield implemented in Elite.

6dof means six degrees of frwedom, as in rotation around three axes as well as translation im three directions.

Starfield has directional thrusters you learn to use with a perk, but the are weak and more for subtle course correction than true dynamic 6dof flight. You cannot fly SF ships like helicopters in space as you do in Elite.