Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

[-VR- Max Factor]

Here's a challenge. Find someone inside frontier, familiar with the fss, that goes home and plays elite in anticipation of using the fss to go exploring or find signal sources. Get them to come on stream, and use it over an extended period, sharing insights about what they're enjoying about the experience, and critically what they're thinking thoughout its use. Ever since its launch, i can't do it, and i've tried seriously... i'm very fond of elite, and all i've ever wanted to do was make it work.

I just watched Paiges live stream, and for the first time in history saw someone at frontier use the fss is a non dismissive way. How she used it was closer to how i try to use it, as when trying the way Will demonstrates I almost quit the game. But im genuinely lost on how that experience can be used enjoyably for longer exploration trips.

Just in case, avoiding another type of gameplay does not count as enjoyment to me. That's fools gold there.

Please help, and thankyou. A demonstration of 2-3 systems in sequence is all i need help with.

I open the FSS and look at the signitures first (I think these should appear in analysis mode after a honk). I see if there is potential of something interesting in a system.

I concentrate on gas giants as these are the places where strange orbits are located. After that, I check binarys for close binaries. Its not the basic using that makes it fun, its the anticipation, its the information you can get, its whether you will get to find a planetary anomolie, finding bizarre orbit lines of the planets, finding things for myself. That is what makes it fun for me.

Also the break of the monotamy of jump, scoop, honk is good too.

The mechanic on it's own is bland, like nearly every other mechanic in every game ever made. What makes it insteresting is what you can discover from the mechanic and what it shows you. That makes it fun for me. Obviously that is impossiible to show on a video screen.

I think what most people do that don't like it, is smash through it as quickly as possible to get to the system map. Unforuntatly for them, they miss out on a lot as they are not actually looking at the results of what they have found until afterward.

There loss and choice at the end of the day.

I enjoy using the FSS. Others will enjoy it for completely different reasons to me. Others will have completely different styles to me. I have found a way to enjoy it. I hope you do to.

 

[m0rl0ck]

Here's a challenge. Find someone inside frontier, familiar with the fss, that goes home and plays elite in anticipation of using the fss to go exploring or find signal sources. Get them to come on stream, and use it over an extended period, sharing insights about what they're enjoying about the experience, and critically what they're thinking thoughout its use. Ever since its launch, i can't do it, and i've tried seriously... i'm very fond of elite, and all i've ever wanted to do was make it work.

I just watched Paiges live stream, and for the first time in history saw someone at frontier use the fss is a non dismissive way. How she used it was closer to how i try to use it, as when trying the way Will demonstrates I almost quit the game. But im genuinely lost on how that experience can be used enjoyably for longer exploration trips.

Just in case, avoiding another type of gameplay does not count as enjoyment to me. That's fools gold there.

Please help, and thankyou. A demonstration of 2-3 systems in sequence is all i need help with.

Its not the same caliber of travesty as the engineers, but its pretty irritating. I try to avoid using it myself.

 

[DrewCarnegie]

Which makes you a #3.

And guess what, it’s OK. Labels and categories are not the horrible, evil things you’ve been lied to about your whole life. Humans have and will continue to label and categorize things as long as either exist. It’s what we do. Even all the “different like everyone else” kids do it, and don’t even know it. Now can we get back to glorifying the FSS now?

I'm totally a category 1:
Using the tools available? See my description of how I play (post #2, I think) using ALL the tools available, not just the FSS.
Making suggestions to improve things? I've suggested an optional ADS, and I'd also rather like to be able to fit cameras to utility mounts, so I can improve my ability to spot bodies using parallax

So yeah, totally Cat 1.

The only part of Cat 3 that I actually fit is that I'm mostly Brit.

 

[Frillop Freyraum]

Surely playing a spaceship game would involve flying your spaceship? The FSS was designed explicitly to remove that 'grind'.

So you seem to be a great fan of flying in supercruise then?
proclaimer: when super cruise was introduced I almost stopped playing the game. SC is such a daft non-flying mechanic that I just got used to it (I had no other choice). But I've got to admit, SC is very netflix friendly: 300 Kls makes easily up for a short 20 minutes episode (personally, I prefer a few matches of blitz chess).

 

[DrewCarnegie]

So you seem to be a great fan of flying in supercruise then?
proclaimer: when super cruise was introduced I almost stopped playing the game. SC is such a daft non-flying mechanic that I just got used to it (I had no other choice)

Well I tried flying 500,000 Ls in regular space, but it was taking an awfully long time.

Ahh you added the 'Netflix' thing again. It's funny how the FSS proponents seem to think this is some kind of argument winner, when the only people who were using Netflix while exploring were those who DIDN'T like the ADS. Those of us who enjoyed exploration prior to 3.3 were too busy having fun to be wasting time on Netflix.

 

[Old Duck]

The fss is horrible
Everyone knows it

everyone - n != everyone

(n > 0)

Spoiler: Enjoyable FSS

The following is a prerecorded message in response to any and all threads that fall under the topic “The FSS Is $NEGATIVE_DESCRIPTION_OF_FSS_AND_RELATED_TOOLS”.

As a serious explorer, I personally love the FSS and related tools. When I drop out of hyperspace, I’m entering an entirely new and potentially undiscovered solar system. I mean, wow! Once I refuel my ship, I put a little distance between me and the star, then I “park” the ship, pop out of my pilot’s chair and go over to my science station (cue slide of Mr. Spock looking into his scanner). This is a seamless transition, like getting into my SRV.

This “science station” is the output of a visual, radio, and gravimetric telescope array built into my ship’s sensors. It sees 3D space around my ship, with the ability to zoom in and focus on specific objects in the solar system. In order to automatically focus in on a specific object (focusing over long distances is no trivial task), I need to match the frequency of the telescope’s focal algorithm to that of the planet or signal – the “tuning the dial” part of the procedure. This lets me zoom in and focus both optically and radiometricly to both “see” the planet and generate detailed statistics. Like Galileo, once I “discover” a planet using my telescope, I get credit for that discovery, assuming I’m the first.

Speaking of discovery, I really like that the system map remains unpopulated until I actually find, magnify, and catalog a planet. I was never a fan of the “Google Galaxy” map view we automatically were given with the ADS. That’s not discovery, that’s tourism.

Now I can continue to scan the entire system from this parked location, or I can choose to immediately go to a planet of interest and map it. One of the advantages of the latter is that my ship will automatically detect and catalog any planets nearby. So for example, if I select a gas giant with a dozen moons, I just need to scan the GG in the FSS, and then fly to the GG and the moons will be all scanned and cataloged using the close-range sensors, thus greatly reducing my time using the FSS. Not mandatory, but it’s a cool little trick for CMDRs who like having a reason to fly to planets to explore them.

I personally find the FSS very similar to real-life stargazing. I scan the sky IRL with my high-powered binoculars, finding planets and stars of interest, then crosscheck them using my astronomical software, which gives me a page of statistics. Then I can go visit them in my SUV….. Wait, forget that last part.

It is possible to be very fast and efficient using the FSS with practice. That said, I actually enjoy the extra time it takes me to scan and catalog a system, followed by mapping and even landing on planets of interest. It adds a sense of immersion, accomplishment, depth, and scale that was sorely lacking before 3.3 dropped.

That’s not to say I find the FSS and DSS to be perfect. I have a list of very minor changes and adjustments I’d like made to the FSS, DSS, and Analysis HUD. But I find the concepts Frontier implemented to be fun, engaging, immersive, brilliant!

Now there are those who want the old ADS back, or worse, want to integrate ADS functionality into the FSS for everyone. I would accept the ADS being brought back as the optional, expensive module that takes up an additional slot, just like it used to be, adding its features to the FSS when installed. The key word there is OPTIONAL.

This concludes my defense of the Full Spectrum System Scanner.

"I would personally accept the return of the ADS as the separate, optional, expensive, power-consuming module it once was. It would add one simple thing to the current FSS – the populating of the system map of basic images of the planets in the system – no details, no zoomable 3D globes, no orrery – just the basic map to allow the targeting of planets of interest. I’d also be okay if the ADS populates the navigation panel with “Unexplored”. It would not change the FSS in any other way."

 

[Frillop Freyraum]

Well I tried flying 500,000 Ls in regular space, but it was taking an awfully long time.

The time is just one aspect, and not even the one I care the most of. It's the empty process as such, pretty similar to the old ADS. It's basically an 'anti-gameplay' mechanic. In that sense I really don't know why FD has brought the SC 'computer' to the table - it already is full autopilot (without the programmed stop)! Just another netflix enhancer...

In short, anything that requires some attention or some handwork is 100 times better than doing nothing or a 'press-one-button-and-wait' solution.

 

[DrewCarnegie]

The time is just one aspect, and not even the one I care the most of. It's the empty process as such, pretty similar to the old ADS. It's basically an 'anti-gameplay' mechanic. In that sense I really don't know why FD has brought the SC 'computer' to the table - it already is full autopilot (without the programmed stop)! Just another netflix enhancer...

Out of curiosity, what mechanic would you have used instead of SC?

 

[Winterwalker]

The time is just one aspect, and not even the one I care the most of. It's the empty process as such, pretty similar to the old ADS. It's basically an 'anti-gameplay' mechanic.

anti-gameplay mechanic (lol) otherwise known as, 'three dimensional space' ...

... enlisted in the enablement of strategic gameplay.
ie. don't like the long cruise to (500kLs) CZ x? = DON'T GO to CZ x.
Go to CZ y (500Ls), you're much less likely to be interdicted en route and will use less fuel = strategic gameplay.
Twitch game when you get there.

 

[Enderby]

Some people may think that they're enjoying it. But, that’s not quite the same thing at all.

 

[Iskariot]

I think the FSS scanner is otherwise great, but it's annoying when it gets cluttered with the bodies and the signal sources. I would give it different modes for those things. When in body scanning mode, all of it is reserved for bodies and USS signals are scrunched to the left side of the bar just to inform the player that they are present. When in signal scanning mode, the body signals are likewise scrunched to the right side and all of the bar is reserved for different kinds of USSes.

There could also be another setting that separates the signals by distance, not by type, but I fear it would be too much for all the arcade players who already complain that the controls are too complex.

I like those ideas. I think that would be great enhancements,

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Well I tried flying 500,000 Ls in regular space, but it was taking an awfully long time.

Ahh you added the 'Netflix' thing again. It's funny how the FSS proponents seem to think this is some kind of argument winner, when the only people who were using Netflix while exploring were those who DIDN'T like the ADS. Those of us who enjoyed exploration prior to 3.3 were too busy having fun to be wasting time on Netflix.

I didin't like the ADS and neither did I use netflix when I played.

 

[Frillop Freyraum]

Out of curiosity, what mechanic would you have used instead of SC?

I'm glad you asked!
I've already seen a much better (in a sense of higher verisimilitude) solution in the old game Terminus (published 2000). That's inner system flight in our Sol system, but had an equivalent to SC in a much more believable (and dangerous!) form. Travels in Terminus where a lot more realistic (compared to ED) and a trip to one of the outer planets could easily take hours.

There where 2 aspects significantly different here: You could accelerate indefinitely, albeit only in theory. The faster you got, the more your ship went under 'micro-particle stress'* and would suffer from increasing structural damage up to total destruction. So it always was up to you to decide how much risk you wanted to go.

*the tinfoil aspect, comparable to the space dust in real space of ED

The other aspect was a logistic one. You had long acceleration times and you always had to keep in mind the same amount of time for your deceleration. Overshooting in Terminus was anything else but trivial...

To be fair, Terminus didn't have to deal with FTL shenanigans...

 

[Iskariot]

Here's a challenge. Find someone inside frontier, familiar with the fss, that goes home and plays elite in anticipation of using the fss to go exploring or find signal sources. Get them to come on stream, and use it over an extended period, sharing insights about what they're enjoying about the experience, and critically what they're thinking thoughout its use. Ever since its launch, i can't do it, and i've tried seriously... i'm very fond of elite, and all i've ever wanted to do was make it work.

I just watched Paiges live stream, and for the first time in history saw someone at frontier use the fss is a non dismissive way. How she used it was closer to how i try to use it, as when trying the way Will demonstrates I almost quit the game. But im genuinely lost on how that experience can be used enjoyably for longer exploration trips.

Just in case, avoiding another type of gameplay does not count as enjoyment to me. That's fools gold there.

Please help, and thankyou. A demonstration of 2-3 systems in sequence is all i need help with.

I think your complaint is to vague to really say anything about it.
If you could be more specific perhaps people could respond better.

Some people got so used to the absence of any form of gameplay mechanic (except for the silly honk) surrounding exploration, that they want to go back to that old situation of absence of mechanics. This is an understandable reaction for the way the game is developed of course. Core mechanics like this should have been in the game right from the start. That way players would have accepted that as the ways of things.

I for one am glad we now have an exploration mechanic. I am not saying it might not be improved. Some people in this thread, like Kissamies, have some great ideas I would love to see implemented.

 

[Winterwalker]

The other aspect was a logistic one. You had long acceleration times and you always had to keep in mind the same amount of time for your deceleration. Overshooting in Terminus was anything else but trivial...

That's cool, I like the structural integrity bit especially .. but it's still SC in all but name. Most people who complain about SC tend to think it's already enough trouble. Pitchforks predicted!

 

[Frillop Freyraum]

That's cool, I like the structural integrity bit especially .. but it's still SC in all but name. Most people who complain about SC tend to think it's already enough trouble. Pitchforks predicted!

Yeah I know, and that's the funny part of it

 

[Winterwalker]

Yeah I know, and that's the funny part of it

AND they can carry auto-supercruise in their new one internal slot, to avoid the added 'slow down' (0:07 to arrival, surf on six) slippage.
It'll be fine! lol. (Like it)

 

[Old Duck]

Out of curiosity, what mechanic would you have used instead of SC?

Me personally, I'd rather have one form of FTL only - hyperspace, with the ability to pop out wherever I want in a solar system. I'd also prefer a much higher cap on top "real space" speeds - say 0.5 C, and have thruster size affect acceleration rather than top speed. For the sake of combat, there could be speed restriction zones around stations and other areas where combat might take place (something that works similar to a permit lock but for thrusters).

Supercruise in ED is way more magical than artificial gravity. Even if we could travel faster than light in this fashion, we'd not see anything outside our windows except perhaps a psychedelic light show. Hyperspace (which I consider a space-folding or wormhole-generating technology) feels much more realistic to me. Give me The Expanse with FTL and that would be great.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Me personally, I'd rather have one form of FTL only - hyperspace, with the ability to pop out wherever I want in a solar system. I'd also prefer a much higher cap on top "real space" speeds - say 0.5 C, and have thruster size affect acceleration rather than top speed. For the sake of combat, there could be speed restriction zones around stations and other areas where combat might take place (something that works similar to a permit lock but for thrusters).

Supercruise in ED is way more magical than artificial gravity. Even if we could travel faster than light in this fashion, we'd not see anything outside our windows except perhaps a psychedelic light show. Hyperspace (which I consider a space-folding or wormhole-generating technology) feels much more realistic to me. Give me The Expanse with FTL and that would be great.

That would be cool, but probably no possible in a real time, twitch based, multiplayer game and certainly not in ED. Maybe there will be an Expanse game when it takes weeks to get anywhere.

Personally I would prefer to supercruise to other systems instead of the hyperjump.

 

[rlsg]

What about: re-adding ADS with some tweaks ?

Not a new idea - but the overriding principle is generally opposed by the anti-honk crowd.

Fundamentally, the FSS is severely flawed in it's current form and has ultimately ruined the exploration for at least some of us. A fairly recent patch finally fixed one of the long standing FSS bugs for VR that meant the blue fuzzy blobs were not even rendered. While the fix does slightly improve the perception of the FSS for VR based CMDRs like myself, it still does not change the fact that the underlying implementation is messy and feels like a total kludge - especially given the new "Analysis" and "Combat" modes with the annoying repetitive mode messages for Analysis mode controls mapped to the same group as Combat mode controls (or visa versa). Space golf is an abomination too.