Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

[Darkfyre99]

This IS the 'FSS is bad' thread. It just got resurrected - ironically by somebody who doesn't think the FSS is bad. People are odd.

Better than creating a new thread IMO, for or against. I’ve always wondered exactly what the etiquette is, when it comes to starting a new thread vs refreshing an inactive thread.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yes, I meant that they could have used a similar mechanic that was already present in the game, without needing to develop anything new. Your suggestion would involve more work than just using what's already in the game - but they didn't even do that.

Ah, yeah I get you. Yep they could have use that in the game. I have no idea why they didn't.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Better than creating a new thread IMO, for or against. I’ve always wondered exactly what the etiquette is, when it comes to starting a new thread vs refreshing an inactive thread.

Etiquette-schmetiquette.
It's all about the Likes, so start a new thread with a clickbait title

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I still chalk the exploration changes we got up to a lack of development time.
There's no possible way all the ideas we keep seeing in threads like this didn't come up at the initial concept stage. It would defy all logic that the original idea wasn't something more akin in scope to the mining changes, but they got bogged down in other work, perhaps making the FSS work reliably, perhaps other stuff, and ideas like this just kept being axed.

Possibly. Maybe not.

Also I still cannot fathom how this far out from Horizons' launch we've not had a selection of additional surface vehicles. Just the money from selling skins for them alone would be worth the time to add them, surely?

This I do agree with. More land vehicles before ships please.

 

[Hanerib]

Leaving this historical document here for purposes of people questioning that the current exploration content does not necessarily need to be the way it currently is, or that exploration should be considered "done" by FDev.
https://us2.campaign-archive.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=aa530da9ec
Who's gonna buy them Arx points if development is always rushed and no carefully designed content ever gets fully done?

 

[Faded Glory]

This mechanic is actually already in the game, for specific planetary missions. The mechanic is called search zones. An example video:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eDMgX3Rwrg

By pinpointing locations though, an explorer doesn't need to fly their ship planetside (which is a fun activity), as they can just drop out right on top of what they're looking for.

Honestly though, the 'search' mechanic you showed just isn't very good either, not after you've done it five times. You're not searching, not even pretending to, just following a marker that eventually resolves into a planetary scan outpost.

And the problem with search zones in ED, and why they presumably have to use such mechanics is that the scale is just too big. We're talking about finding things that are very small, human scale, on bodies that are huge. Even planetary bases don't really show up until you are a few kilometers from them. So really, it's all or nothing. If they made a search zone say 5 kilometers on each side, they might as well pinpoint it from orbit, and if they make it 100 kilometers each side then even a fast ship will take ages to traverse it at an altitude and speed where you have a chance of spotting something a few hundred meters in size.

Certainly it would be great if they could come up with a way to find things by flying your ship at an altitude and speed where things could be spotted, but in my experience it doesn't seem to be possible, and I've hunted hundreds of POI's on planets looking for skimmers to kill, and it's usually not possible to find such small scenarios without getting into the SRV.

 

[Sunyavadin]

Leaving this historical document here for purposes of people questioning that the current exploration content does not necessarily need to be the way it currently is, or that exploration should be considered "done" by FDev.
https://us2.campaign-archive.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=aa530da9ec

I will note that while some of these ideas never came to pass, others did recently make it ingame. Just the other week a friend of mine who began playing last month was delighted to get her name on a planet in a named system within the bubble, thanks to the "first mapped" tags.
Some of the ideas back then certainly didn't make sense though. As a biologist, the idea of the big factions hoarding the info they have on mapped systems is ludicrous in a post human genome project, post sci-hub world. It's inevitable with these situations that an independent body is going to end up consolidating and publishing this sort of data openly for the public good.

 

[lenna]

Chapter 4: Beyond - :

'EXPLORATION​

The Analysis Mode with the improved Exploration Discovery Scanner and Detailed Discovery Scanner, is a new way for all Commanders to explore the Milky Way galaxy. Commanders have probes at their disposal to map the planetary surfaces, and planetary rings, in detail, to locate points of interest and leave your mark on the galaxy in a different way.' - https://www.elitedangerous.com/seasons/beyond/​

I think if this was ever put before Trading Standards in the UK as an advert for a new product that FD were actually selling then I think FD would have their hands well and truely slapped down on the grounds of "False Advertising".

Personally, I think they should roll back the 3.3 changes and perform a true consultation with the community - alternatively, actually take on board the feedback and discussion both prior to and since the release of 3.3 and release a true improvement to exploration mechanics. The latter need not involve a complete roll back but it may be a natural consequence of following the pre-existing feedback.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Honestly though, the 'search' mechanic you showed just isn't very good either, not after you've done it five times. You're not searching, not even pretending to, just following a marker that eventually resolves into a planetary scan outpost.

And the problem with search zones in ED, and why they presumably have to use such mechanics is that the scale is just too big. We're talking about finding things that are very small, human scale, on bodies that are huge. Even planetary bases don't really show up until you are a few kilometers from them. So really, it's all or nothing. If they made a search zone say 5 kilometers on each side, they might as well pinpoint it from orbit, and if they make it 100 kilometers each side then even a fast ship will take ages to traverse it at an altitude and speed where you have a chance of spotting something a few hundred meters in size.

Certainly it would be great if they could come up with a way to find things by flying your ship at an altitude and speed where things could be spotted, but in my experience it doesn't seem to be possible, and I've hunted hundreds of POI's on planets looking for skimmers to kill, and it's usually not possible to find such small scenarios without getting into the SRV.

Give ships a SRV scanner for use in orbital cruise with a range of 10,000km.
A second SRV scanner with a 50km range for use below the dropout altitude.
Problem solved.

 

[Galactic Fork]

Honestly though, the 'search' mechanic you showed just isn't very good either, not after you've done it five times. You're not searching, not even pretending to, just following a marker that eventually resolves into a planetary scan outpost.

And the problem with search zones in ED, and why they presumably have to use such mechanics is that the scale is just too big. We're talking about finding things that are very small, human scale, on bodies that are huge. Even planetary bases don't really show up until you are a few kilometers from them. So really, it's all or nothing. If they made a search zone say 5 kilometers on each side, they might as well pinpoint it from orbit, and if they make it 100 kilometers each side then even a fast ship will take ages to traverse it at an altitude and speed where you have a chance of spotting something a few hundred meters in size.

Certainly it would be great if they could come up with a way to find things by flying your ship at an altitude and speed where things could be spotted, but in my experience it doesn't seem to be possible, and I've hunted hundreds of POI's on planets looking for skimmers to kill, and it's usually not possible to find such small scenarios without getting into the SRV.

Geological and Biological sites are large enough to be seen from a distance. I was hunting them a lot before the new "point and you're there" mechanic. The big problem then was that we had NO idea where to start, but you could see them from several KM away. More if it was especially active.

It's better that regular POI's need to be found with the SRVs, that's why they're there. But Bio and Geo sites are much bigger. A general area would allow them to be found. I'd love an area of a 100k, actually. That's nothing.

What I'd really like is for them to be more variable. Something like the Tiger Stripes on Enseladus where you can see the plumes from space, or the volcanoes on IO. But it's always the same little structures.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

This mechanic is actually already in the game, for specific planetary missions. The mechanic is called search zones. An example video:

By pinpointing locations though, an explorer doesn't need to fly their ship planetside (which is a fun activity), as they can just drop out right on top of what they're looking for.

The animation for these has been bugged since early beyond, lol.

But yeah, when they ask for feedback, it's mostly for just PR purposes.

Something that caused a passionate response was when they actually came out on a livestream and defended the fact they did listen to feedback, like them saying so would suddenly make it true.

The reality is, fontier only "listen" to feedback when they ask for it. Ie, frontier at various points decide they're going to ask the community for feedback, and thats it. Its more of a request for information, very different from concerned listening.

There's probably a humerous google docs spreadsheet maintained by the community team somewhere though sure

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

They also did some changes during beta, like giving planetary numbers in the info panel after a honk instead of having to go into the FSS. Pretty sure there was another too, can't remember as it was nearly a year ago now.

Yet the most reasonable and often made request, could we see the spectrum in the cockpit ui, wasn't even acknowledged they had even read the idea. People even did mock up screenshots for them.

Given the explosion of new hud content they proved very well its not technically impossible to add new content into the space right infront of you on your ship.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

They were definitely running late - that's why we never got the Focused Feedback. The entire blue blob and probe golf 'gameplay' was designed and implemented in 3 months. It's actually surprising that it works as well as it does.

If that's true, it makes you wonder what from. Maybe the mining changes? Space legs prototyping? Other games?

Its a bit sad that frontier don't actually respect their game.. fair enough if a feature has its schedule taken, but wouldnt you want to give it all the time it deserves even if it is late? Guess not better lump it and call it like someone screwed up?

 

[IndigoWyrd]

If that's true, it makes you wonder what from. Maybe the mining changes? Space legs prototyping? Other games?

Its a bit sad that frontier don't actually respect their game.. fair enough if a feature has its schedule taken, but wouldnt you want to give it all the time it deserves even if it is late? Guess not better lump it and call it like someone screwed up?

As a developer, yes you would. But the person who signs your paycheck is the one who says "This launches on that date, or there are no more of these for you."

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

As a developer, yes you would. But the person who signs your paycheck is the one who says "This launches on that date, or there are no more of these for you."

"Also, it needs to be bug-free and no, you can't have any more resources until it's too late for them to be any use and they'll actually make things worse"

 

[IndigoWyrd]

"Also, it needs to be bug-free and no, you can't have any more resources until it's too late for them to be any use and they'll actually make things worse"

I recall a prior discussion about being blinded by the stars, especially the blue/whites. I don't have any of those on my course for quite some time, but I did grab this little snip...

This is the method I use when approaching and scanning, scooping and sensoring, and being blinded is not really an issue for me.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I recall a prior discussion about being blinded by the stars, especially the blue/whites. I don't have any of those on my course for quite some time, but I did grab this little snip...

This is the method I use when approaching and scanning, scooping and sensoring, and being blinded is not really an issue for me.

Oh I'd forgotten about that. I took pics but didn't Imgur them. Will do it soon.

 

[M0rty]

I recall a prior discussion about being blinded by the stars, especially the blue/whites. I don't have any of those on my course for quite some time, but I did grab this little snip...

You'd think the simple fix is to..ya know...not stare directly at the sun. But since you're...flying directly at it when you enter a system...that definitely makes it tough, esp for B Class stars when you're in the weirdness of hyperspace then suddenly:

But i hear they sell novelty sunglasses at Hutton orbital too so....

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I recall a prior discussion about being blinded by the stars, especially the blue/whites. I don't have any of those on my course for quite some time, but I did grab this little snip...

This is the method I use when approaching and scanning, scooping and sensoring, and being blinded is not really an issue for me.

So you stop inside the corona and then FSS from there, far enough out that you can scan the system without cooking.

Remember, I'm not using the FSS for anything other than the spectrum, so parking in the corona makes no sense for me. I line up on my exit trajectory (to skim the top of star at full throttle) while honking, then open the FSS to view the spectrum. This is only a minor adjustment from the ADS days, where I'd point at the center of the star and view the System Map while DSSing. 30,000 systems brings a lot of muscle-memory with it.

My view looks like this:

https://imgur.com/a/zBGwTiD

Source: https://imgur.com/a/zBGwTiD


There's a moment when the FSS opens that I can see the spectrum, before the star appears, but it really wouldn't take much for FDev to add a bit of shadow behind the spectrum so it stands out better.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

But i hear they sell novelty sunglasses at Hutton orbital too so....

I came this >.< close to taking a T7 to Hutton on my first trip.