Trotting out the same line over and over doesn't make it true Max.
The gameplay of top-down targetted exploration was removed.
Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?
- Thread starter CMDR Karrde Sun
- Start date
- Status
Trotting out the same line over and over doesn't make it true Max.
The gameplay of top-down targetted exploration was removed.
The most legitimate concern about the FSS is that it doesn't facilitate a subset of exploration methodologies.
Yes it is true.
And what gameplay did that entail? Please enlighten me.
It is A concern that primarily affects a VERY VOCAL subset of the community, yes. And one which I do empathise with to an extent.
However, there are many other concerns that affect pretty much everybody else or, in the case of VR issues, a different subset of the community..
It would be nice to be able to talk about those other concerns once in a while too. There are plenty of "I want my ADS / subset-of-exploration-methodology back" threads, such as this one and the "Map Mode" one etc. So on the off-chance that someone starts a thread which isn't primarily about the ADS/methodology topic, would it be possible at all not to drown out the other concerns every single time?
Much appreciated.
Not so much removed as significantly altered.
Instead of Jump-Honk-Scoop-Check-Jump it is now Jump-Honk-Scoop-FSS-Check-Jump.
Where "Check" includes things such as GGG, certain orbital arrangements, etc.
The FSS does add significant overhead to that style of gameplay, both time and effort. Although I'd agree it doesn't remove that gameplay per-se, for the people who really dislike the FSS it does make it unpalatable.
Fixed that for you
Instead of Jump-Honk-Scoop-Check-Explore-Jump it is now Jump-Honk-Scoop-FSS-Check-Explore-Jump.
Fixed your fix
ED: Fixed my fix of your fix.
Start with a system outline - fly around the system filling in the detail.
Actually performing the core activity of the game while exploring the system - flying spaceships - that gameplay.
But you already know that Max, you're just being your usual contrarian self.
Instead of Jump-Honk-Scoop-Check-Explore-Jump it is now Jump-Honk-Scoop-FSS-Check-Explore-Jump.
Fixed your fix
ED: Fixed my fix of your fix.
Except that after the FSS, there is no more body discovery exploration to be done - you already know everything about the system.
The only incentive to travel beyond that is if you want to surface scan using the DSS.
Well, there wasn't much body discovery exploration to be done before either - the main difference is tagging bodies. The System Map pretty much gave most of the relevant details as well. With a very little bit of practice you could tell what kind of body everything was as soon as you saw/heard it. Although it was always funny to find those tagged metal-rich bodies which looked a little bit like an ELW in an otherwise untagged system...
Mind you, I'm strongly in favour of shifting lots of stuff from the FSS to the Probes. Such as:
- Mineral composition
- Numbers of POIs (there's an argument to shift all of POIs to Probing, but having at least the POI types visible from the FSS does give a stronger incentive to actually visit a body)
- Many of the body details listed in the System Map
In fact I'd be happy if the FSS just revealed the overall type of body (icy, metallic, terrestrial, gas) and needing to fly close and/or probe to reveal the sub-types (icy / rocky-ice, metal-rich/metallic, WW/ELW/AW, GG-I, ...GG-wbl, etc)
I'm also in favour of removing the directly-plotted POIs revealed by the Probes to search areas instead.
What many people were expecting from the exploration revamp was a more layered approach instead of the almost-everything-on-a-platter with the FSS.
- FSS -> Map the system outline, potentially highlighting bodies of interest
- Probes -> Map body, potentially highlighting areas of interest
- Land -> Explore body POIs
Right, so flying your space ship. That has not been removed.
I had guessed what you ment, but the gameplay of flying your ship has not been removed. What has changed are the reasons to fly your space ship around a system.
One has replaced the other. Before you flew around to get Discovered By tags, credits, some useless information and planetary exploration. That has now been replaced with Mapped By tags, credits and planetary exploration. The only thing missing is the useless information which has been bundled into the FSS (maybe too much).
What I would like to see is some potentially useful information be moved to the DSS, such as material percentages (the material type can stay with the FSS though), the amount of POI's and the type of volcanism. Thus giving us more reasons to fly around the system.
So none of the actual gameplay has been removed, just some of the reasons why have been changed.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Pithy Max, but once again completely wrong.
I flew around the system to actually discover the bodies in it - to confirm my informed guesses from the system map, to go to the places that look interesting, to find out up close and personal what materials might be available on them.
The FSS as a mandatory one-size fits all tool that both constructs in the big picture in an incremental way and also reveals all but the lowest level of surface detail just doesn't do it for me.
Spin it however you like, but blue screen hunt the blob will never ever be a satisfying replacement for those who liked spaceflight as their primary exploration mechanism.
Yup. This exactly what I would have wanted in the game with the FSS. It would add better gameplay loops.Well, there wasn't much body discovery exploration to be done before either - the main difference is tagging bodies. The System Map pretty much gave most of the relevant details as well. With a very little bit of practice you could tell what kind of body everything was as soon as you saw/heard it. Although it was always funny to find those tagged metal-rich bodies which looked a little bit like an ELW in an otherwise untagged system...
Mind you, I'm strongly in favour of shifting lots of stuff from the FSS to the Probes. Such as:
In fact I'd be happy if the FSS just revealed the overall type of body (icy, metallic, terrestrial, gas) and needing to fly close and/or probe to reveal the sub-types (icy / rocky-ice, metal-rich/metallic, WW/ELW/AW, GG-I, ...GG-wbl, etc)
- Mineral composition
- Numbers of POIs (there's an argument to shift all of POIs to Probing, but having at least the POI types visible from the FSS does give a stronger incentive to actually visit a body)
- Many of the body details listed in the System Map
I'm also in favour of removing the directly-plotted POIs revealed by the Probes to search areas instead.
What many people were expecting from the exploration revamp was a more layered approach instead of the almost-everything-on-a-platter with the FSS.
- FSS -> Map the system outline, potentially highlighting bodies of interest
- Probes -> Map body, potentially highlighting areas of interest
- Land -> Explore body POIs
You knew exactly what was in a system bodywise from the initial honk and looking in the system map with the old ADS. You do know, you can still fly to places that look interesting after using the FSS too.
The old ADS was also mandatory. But as I have said on numerous occasions, I think the FSS gives out too much information and could bre reduced to create a better gameplay loop. As opposed to the ADS which completely missed out on discovering what was in a system yourself.
I am not spinning anything, that would be you.
Instead of Jump-Honk-Scoop-Check-Explore-Jump it is now Jump-Honk-Scoop-FSS-Check-Explore-Jump.
Fixed your fix
ED: Fixed my fix of your fix.
Personally, my general exploration flow is:
jump - honk - FSS (while scooping) - explore the interesting thing I spotted on the scanner - FSS some more - take a detour while traveling to the next interesting thing I was going to explore to do some exploring - FSS even more - explore even more - and then jump out
And Space-Golf could be considered a replacement for surface exploration by SRV and suborbital flight.
Last edited:
The FSS (and Space Golf) is an abomination of a mechanic. Whilst some may object to the repeated raising of the point that there is no justifiable reason for removing the ADS in the first place, keeping it would have mitigated the problems with the FSS that FD seem either blind to or reticent to address. None (or very few) of the FSS "improvement" suggestions are new - many (if not all) of them were raised during the Beta too (in some shape or form).
Last edited:
I don't mind the probe/mapping 'space golf', I don't think it's very engaging (it is a simplistic chore to be endured after the first couple of goes imo) but the ADS wasn't very engaging either (I didn't need it to be, flying my ship through the system is engaging) and both are just tools that do a job that I have a use for. Similarly I can make use of the FSS as a handy tool for scanning bodies at a distance and resolving USSs more quickly than pointing the ship at them.
But most importantly, I don't have to map planets, particularly after having seen so many persistent POIs I am bored of them & now only use them for farming mats when before the 3.3 update searching for them helped motivate me to keep going for (among many others) and 18 month grand tour of the galaxy. By comparison the codex tick boxes and 42 regions seem so small in scope, but again arguably it was too hard before.
The ADS didn't need to go away though, and can easily be put back in. So let's just do that for the easy win when so many other problems have no easy answers.
I may be in the minority but I kind of enjoy the fss, the creepy sounds you hear from space always gets me, those gas giants just sound terrifying, ice/rocks sound amazing, could listen to those sounds for minutes.
The fundamental problem with the FSS as far as I am concerned is there was too much effort put into the audio aspect and not enough into the other parts - there should have been a visual representation of the audio element from day one but FD fundamentally failed on that score and seem to be blind to the consequences of that failure.
- Status