You were implying the organized part of Winter has been using the Pirate mechanic to UM Hudson's profitable systems. No one in our group has done that because we are Allied with Hudson. There are many Imperials with Winters and Hudson tags right now, I would not be surprised at all if they were undermining Hudson this way. It seems the data shows us that Imperial players are using the Pirate mechanic to UM themselves.
Very cool analysis and insight into the development of PP activities.
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the systems above are Patreus systems, not Delaines systems.
Shows how much undermining Winters did to Patreus last cycle
Shhh, we took the week off, for the most part.
I have never believed in the IHC, it is only a gathering of back-chamber politics in favor of some players that want to play they rule the powers
Imperial Unity: Denied
Might as well disband the IHC now. Etherimp's logic showed everyone what the Empire truly is.
All of this "multiples of 5 vs 30" talk is predicated on several false premises:
a) everyone who powerplays pays attention to the forums/reddit and respects established alliances
b) everyone who powerplays understands it well enough to recognize a valuable vs. loss-making system
c) everyone who powerplays cares
d) everyone who powerplays knows the most efficient way to get merits.
Etc., etc.
Fergal is right: it takes a single, new commander trying out powerplay to waltz into a system pirate one ship and return home to cause the multiples to be 5. Where he's wrong is to be suspicious of the 4/5 systems that weren't on the Kumo list--as if Kumo is responsible for most of Patreus' undermining 3/5 systems on that list are undermined regularly. One is mediocre and two are really good, valuable systems.
In short: while we all know that there's back-alley deals going on, and 5th column activities... pouring through the data and jumping at shadows isn't productive.
a) everyone who powerplays pays attention to the forums/reddit and respects established alliances
b) everyone who powerplays understands it well enough to recognize a valuable vs. loss-making system
c) everyone who powerplays cares
d) everyone who powerplays knows the most efficient way to get merits.
Etc., etc.
Fergal is right: it takes a single, new commander trying out powerplay to waltz into a system pirate one ship and return home to cause the multiples to be 5. Where he's wrong is to be suspicious of the 4/5 systems that weren't on the Kumo list--as if Kumo is responsible for most of Patreus' undermining
3/5 systems on that list are undermined regularly. One is mediocre and two are really good, valuable systems.In short: while we all know that there's back-alley deals going on, and 5th column activities... pouring through the data and jumping at shadows isn't productive.
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Imperial Unity: Denied
Might as well disband the IHC now. Etherimp's logic showed everyone what the Empire truly is.
Oh really? And what is that?
I think you're misinterpreting the info.
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So, which Imperial commanders are these that are 5th Column? Because it's nobody in my group or anyone I know.
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Haha yep, there are many people playing, many groups, and no one has any way of knowing what everyone is doing IG. I like it. I think it was wise of Frontier to forego any kind of Faction wide comms, or anything like that.
I keep seeing this circular conversation, "your Power is doing this", and the response, "not my group". Is this ever going to stop?
The accusations of 5C keep flying from your group, and while I will be the first one to agree with Perse and others that you are likely the victims of 5C, I feel the direction those accusations fly in is unjustified. I know there is not a lot of trust between our groups and obviously you have reason to be suspicious, but I will say it again:
Lavingy's Legion does not encourage, condone, or participate ANY 5th Column activities. I can say this unequivocally and with 100% confidence.
The mod team for ALD, the guys who undergo weekly planning, debating, and decision making for the power as a whole, DO NOT encourage, condone, or participate in ANY 5th Column activities. I can also say this with 100% confidence.
I can also say with confidence that NO organized player group that we coordinate or associate with has ever encouraged, admitted to, or suggested 5th Column actions. It is *possible* that behind closed doors and within their own group, they privately agree to do these things without anyone else's knowledge.
I personally do not have any control over what people decide to do with their time, but I do have control over who I choose to associate and coordinate with and I assure you that if I ever caught wind of them engaging in 5th Column, I would sever all ties with them and they would not be invited to further discussions about power-play or group strategies. You can either take me for my word in this matter or continue to sling unfounded accusations. That choice is yours; but I will not continue to digress into a meaningless mud-slinging contest over this issue.
Are we clear?
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next step is you gone start to like a slaver
Oh my god, you and I actually agree on something.
This is weird. I don't like it
Hmm, I did just say that player groups doing things in an organized manner for Powerplay don't have any control over, or knowledge of everyone in their Power. I haven't mentioned your player group here once, nor anywhere else. I've been pretty careful to say "Imperials" because I understand that 5c can come from anywhere. To be honest, who cares who is 5c'ng? All that matters is that we're aware of it, and we have to plan for it. It's just really imbalanced, and pretty low.
However, I thought we were discussing the use of consensual Pirate mechanics for Undermining Powers of the same Major Faction? I think it is interesting to see the idea you put forward because it presents some new ways of managing CC levels for Powers cooperating with each other.
And, as usual, leaves Mahon without any advantages *laughs*
That being said, I find that use of the mechanic quite cool. It's been out there in the open since day one, but it has apparently taken quite a long time for anyone to pick up on it. And yes, that includes me.
And all of this discussion hasn't even looked into the now literally free pay cheque you can get from a minimal investment of time. Fill an Anaconda with 400 tons of merits, a collector limpet controller and 36 limpets. This costs you 4 million credits. Meet up with a friend from an allied power in an identical Anaconda (sans merits), drop your 400 merits. Friend scoops them and hand them in for 2,000 merits. By the time you've dumped 1,200 merits, your friend is up 6,000 merits and maintains rating 5 for next week.
Do a straight swap with your friend, and you've each paid 12,000,000 credits for your merits (less actually, due to free allotments), and you'll get paid 50,000,000 credits at the end of the cycle. Congratulations - you've now earned 38,000,000 credits for almost no work. This offer is open to all participants in PowerPlay*
*Does not apply to anyone pledged to Edmund Mahon.
I thought you guys could do it with Sirius, Antal and Kumo? If you can't, that's not very fair. I got up to 16k merits last turn in like 2 hours' work.
I think many have been aware of the mechanic being there. Perhaps there really hasn't been a need for the piracy mechanic to be used this way(opposing a 5th column expansion for example). With the 5th column getting more clever in their tactics players have had to think outside the box in order to counter this very broken Preparation mechanic, and even then it can only be used effectively on a non-combat expansion power without having to place that power into turmoil.
Mahon has the "advantage" of being able to undermine or oppose anyone. That can be handy when you think of what the 5th column has been trying to do with Hudson and Winters recently. If Hudson has a 5th column expansion in Winters' space we can do nothing but watch while it eats up our CC surplus. I kind of find it ironic that Winters has lost more CC due to Hudson contesting systems than to anything the Empire has been able to do to us directly.
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I'm just attempting to clear the air here between OUR player groups. We (you and I) have no control over what people outside of our groups do, and there's no way for us to tell where the 5th Column is coming from, so any accusations toward any specific group or power are just speculation. We have to remember that there are private groups that have many hundreds of members and they may have their own politics/allies/enemies.
Ok, you are repeating exactly what I just said twice, glad we agree. I was responding to your comments:
You went from one end of the spectrum to the other rather quickly.
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It's been well known by us for quite a while now that Hudson and Winters do the "merit trading" "handshake method" "shake n bake" to oppose each other and/or undermine systems in order to control CC and/or shed bad systems. You telling me otherwise means you're lying, NOT that Hudson is the victim of 5c.
YOU brought up 5th Column, not me. I brought up Winters and Hudson helping each other through the pirate method of undermining and you tried to blame that on Imperial 5th Columnist.
I must not have been clear, my apologies. The Imperial 5th column is a likely suspect for undermining Hudson's [keyword] profitable systems, as there is clearly one present in Hudson and Winters, and they are getting more and more creative, so I would not be surprised if they are using the Pirating mechanic to swap packages. You brought this to everyones attention, and I thank you for it. I was not referring to LL in any way.
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Fair enough. But, Hudson has already admitted to intentionally putting their own profitable systems into turmoil.
Yes... by not fortifying those systems.... the systems you are talking about are always undermined.............. and even if they were undermined using this "shake and bake" method, why should it matter to you?