"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.

hutandrei · May 4, 2025

Case 1: HMC terraformable planet with geologicals in a binary system with a ringed GG (so maybe 3 x extraction bonus, 2 x industrial bonus)

ground port -> "Refinery":5.30, "Extraction":2.95, "Industrial":1.55, "Military":0.30, "Agriculture":0.20, "High Tech":0.15
Coriolis -> "Refinery":5.30, "Extraction":4.15, "Industrial":2.35, "Military":0.30, "Agriculture":0.20, "High Tech":0.15

The Coriolis has extra 1.2 Extraction, and 0.8 Industrial, compared to the ground-port.

Case 2: Rocky planet with organics (so 1 x refinery bonus, 1 x Agriculture bonus, 1 x Terraforming bonus)

ground port -> "Refinery":3.75, "Agriculture":1.20, "Terraforming":1.00, "Military":0.30, "Industrial":0.15, "Extraction" :0.15, "High Tech":0.15
Coriolis -> "Refinery":4.15, "Agriculture":1.60, "Terraforming":1.40, "Military":0.30, "Industrial":0.15, "Extraction" :0.15, "High Tech":0.15

The Coriolis has extra 0.4 Extraction, 0.4 Agriculture and 0.4 Terraforming compared to the ground-port.

Kira Goto · May 4, 2025

On a semi-related note I decided to be curious and see what economy figures my Orbis around a terraformable, but tidally-locked water world had with a space farm. The answer is 1.4 tourism and 1.4 agri compared to previously 1.4 tourism and 1.0 agri (if I recall). Unfortunately this is not enough to overpower the tourism that is useless (to me and generally) and get more agricultural stuff produced by the port.

Albeit not nearly as big of a deal as with the refineries since I still have a solid amount of water available and can get the fruit n veg from other nearby systems where I made a claim with primary around a WW (and those outposts are not eating the fruit part of their production for whatever reason).

Aratac · May 5, 2025

hutandrei said:
Use the Rocky for the coriolis, 1 refinery hub and one tier 1 port on the surface (for cmm and ceramics).
Then you can build further refinery hubs on the other planets, each will have a small but positive impact on your refinery supply.

One Coriolis and one refinery hub on a rocky is better than a Coriolis and 6 refinery hubs on a HMC (from my own experience).

I am going to supply some exact numbers today, or tomorrow, as in how much influence a refinery hub has, how much is a boosted one, the planetary inf. etc.

Thanks. Just to clarify. I assume the T1 planetary port on the rocky moon should be 'civilian' (37k of materials) so that it changes from 'colony' to 'refinery' once the refinery is built? Does it matter in which order the structures are built? I'm thinking first the surface refinery hub, then surface civilian planetary port, then coriolis last so it can 'see' the strong links to the surface port.

Tyrrel · May 5, 2025

Aratac said:
Thanks. Just to clarify. I assume the T1 planetary port on the rocky moon should be 'civilian' (37k of materials) so that it changes from 'colony' to 'refinery' once the refinery is built? Does it matter in which order the structures are built? I'm thinking first the surface refinery hub, then surface civilian planetary port, then coriolis last so it can 'see' the strong links to the surface port.

Yes, civilian type in order for it to grab the strong links from the refineries. I recommend building ports first, just to be safe. Strong links will go from Refinery Hubs -> Surface Port -> Coriolis (Link between Surface/Coriolis will show only 1 strong link, but will consist of all the economies that the Surface Port has.)

Aratac · May 5, 2025

Tyrrel said:
Yes, civilian type in order for it to grab the strong links from the refineries. I recommend building ports first, just to be safe. Strong links will go from Refinery Hubs -> Surface Port -> Coriolis (Link between Surface/Coriolis will show only 1 strong link, but will consist of all the economies that the Surface Port has.)

Thanks so much. Cheers

hutandrei · May 5, 2025

Aratac said:
Thanks. Just to clarify. I assume the T1 planetary port on the rocky moon should be 'civilian' (37k of materials) so that it changes from 'colony' to 'refinery' once the refinery is built? Does it matter in which order the structures are built? I'm thinking first the surface refinery hub, then surface civilian planetary port, then coriolis last so it can 'see' the strong links to the surface port.

My advice: do the ground port first, then that port will supply most of the materials needed for the Coriolis and the refinery hub.
If you have an FC, you could do the whole setup in only 2 trips. The second trip will have only half of the FC loaded to finish the ground port, the other half should have the commodities needed for the Coriolis and the hub which are not produced by a refinery.

_Flin_ · May 5, 2025

hutandrei said:
Use the Rocky for the coriolis, 1 refinery hub and one tier 1 port on the surface (for cmm and ceramics).
Then you can build further refinery hubs on the other planets, each will have a small but positive impact on your refinery supply.

One Coriolis and one refinery hub on a rocky is better than a Coriolis and 6 refinery hubs on a HMC (from my own experience).

I am going to supply some exact numbers today, or tomorrow, as in how much influence a refinery hub has, how much is a boosted one, the planetary inf. etc.

I disagree.

Having a refinery Coriolis around a HMC, each Refinery Hub give 0.9 economy influence after the patch. So yeah, 1.15 are nice, and one Refinery Hub would probably give 2.05.
But the possibility to go to 3.6 + T1 starport is way more interesting in my eyes.

So you can create a better Refinery on the large HMC.

_Flin_ · May 5, 2025

hutandrei said:
Case 1: HMC terraformable planet with geologicals in a binary system with a ringed GG (so maybe 3 x extraction bonus, 2 x industrial bonus)

Case 2: Rocky planet with organics (so 1 x refinery bonus, 1 x Agriculture bonus, 1 x Terraforming bonus)

Can you pls provide what has been actually built there? The strong link building have a serious impact on these numbers. Or are these plain stations? Then where does the Refinery influence for the HMC come from?

hutandrei · May 5, 2025

_Flin_ said:
I disagree.

Having a refinery Coriolis around a HMC, each Refinery Hub give 0.9 economy influence after the patch. So yeah, 1.15 are nice, and one Refinery Hub would probably give 2.05.
But the possibility to go to 3.6 + T1 starport is way more interesting in my eyes.

So you can create a better Refinery on the large HMC.

New data point (just finished): rocky planet with one slot - refinery hub. The tier 1 orbital (after subtracting the weak links) has 2.6 refinery influence.
In @Aratec case: he has 2 slots, not just one. That ground port will add extra refinery influence to the Coriolis, so instead of 2.6 (like me), he will probably have 3.0 refinery influence.

If that HMC has any geo signs on it, that could add 1.4 industrial planetary influence to the t1 port, respectively 2.2 industrial influence to the Coriolis. It will kill most of the refinery products.

Even if not, why build 3 refinery hubs to get only to 2.7 refinery influence, when you could build only one and get more (3.0).

_Flin_ said:
Can you pls provide what has been actually built there? The strong link building have a serious impact on these numbers. Or are these plain stations? Then where does the Refinery influence for the HMC come from?

HMC -> 6 refinery hubs + t1 port. It's actually 5.35 refinery influence now, since I built a new refinery in system. 3 weak links to refineries now, so without them the refinery influence is 5.0. Probably 5.0 is the cap, the maximum you could get, no matter how many refinery hubs you build.

Rocky -> 2 refinery hubs + t1 port, subtracting the 7 weak links to refineries -> refinery influence just from this planet for the ground port = 3.4 The orbital got an extra 0.4.

hutandrei · May 5, 2025

So, numbers:
Planetary influence: 1.4
1 refinery hub boosted : 1.2
2 refinery hubs boosted: 2.0
6 refinery hubs (not boosted): 5.0
Extra boost to orbital from ground-port: 0.4/influence. If 2 influences (e.g. HMC + rings) -> 2*0.4 = 0.8

Forgot to add:
Weak link : 0.05

Feel free to correct me.

betel01 · May 5, 2025

hutandrei said:
Case 1: HMC terraformable planet with geologicals in a binary system with a ringed GG (so maybe 3 x extraction bonus, 2 x industrial bonus)

ground port -> "Refinery":5.30, "Extraction":2.95, "Industrial":1.55, "Military":0.30, "Agriculture":0.20, "High Tech":0.15
Coriolis -> "Refinery":5.30, "Extraction":4.15, "Industrial":2.35, "Military":0.30, "Agriculture":0.20, "High Tech":0.15

The Coriolis has extra 1.2 Extraction, and 0.8 Industrial, compared to the ground-port.

Case 2: Rocky planet with organics (so 1 x refinery bonus, 1 x Agriculture bonus, 1 x Terraforming bonus)

ground port -> "Refinery":3.75, "Agriculture":1.20, "Terraforming":1.00, "Military":0.30, "Industrial":0.15, "Extraction" :0.15, "High Tech":0.15
Coriolis -> "Refinery":4.15, "Agriculture":1.60, "Terraforming":1.40, "Military":0.30, "Industrial":0.15, "Extraction" :0.15, "High Tech":0.15

The Coriolis has extra 0.4 Extraction, 0.4 Agriculture and 0.4 Terraforming compared to the ground-port.

Thank you for the information !
I've put together a table combining your data and my own experience. I've made some adjustments to make the numbers add up, so they might not be accurate.

Category	Value
Links
Strong link (Tier 1)	0.4
Strong link (Tier 2)	0.8
Weak link	0.05

Planetary effects (overrides)
Rocky	Refinery 1.4
Rocky ice	Refinery 1.4 / Industrial 1.4
HMC (ringed & geological)	Extraction 2.8 ?
HMC	Extraction 1.4
HMC (Silicate magma)	Extraction 1.8
HMC (organics)	Extraction: 1.4 / Agriculture 1.4 / Terraforming 1.4
Icy (Water magma)	Extraction 1.8 / Industrial 2.4
Star with asteroid belts	Extraction 1.4 / Military 1.0

Boosts for strong links
Extraction body bonus	1.2	Pristine + geological + ringed
Industrial body bonus	0.8	Pristine + geological
Pristine system bonus	0.4

Penalties for strong links
Agriculture on icy	-0.4

My hypothesis, which was mostly mentioned in the patch notes, is that a planetary port aggregates strong links from surface facilities and applies boosts and penalties for the aggregate strong link only once rather than per link.
If there is an orbital port around the same body, the planetary port sends both this aggregated link and planetary effects (overrides) as a strong link, and applies boosts and penalties again.
The problem is that when a planetary port sends a strong link to an orbital station, the pristine system bonus may not be applied properly.

So, your data breakdown would be:

Planetary port
Refinery	5.3
0.8 x 6	4.8	T2 strong links from 6 hubs
0.4 x 1	0.4	Pristine system bonus for agrigated strong link
0.05 x 2	0.1	Weak links from 2 hubs on other bodies

Extraction	2.95
1.4 + 1.4 ?	2.8 ?	Orverride (geologicals & ringed)
0.05 x 3	0.15	Weak links from other bodies

Industrial	1.55
1.4 x 1	1.4	Override (geologicals)
0.05 x 3	0.15	Weak links from other bodies

Military	0.3
0.05 x 6	0.3	Weak links from other bodies

Agriculture	0.2
0.05 x 4	0.2	Weak links from other bodies

High Tech	0.15
0.05 x 3	0.15	Weak links from other bodies

Coriolis
Refinery	5.3	No pristine bonus (?). I had the same experience.

Extraction	4.15
2.95 + 0.4 + 0.4 + 0.4	4.15	Pristine + geological + ringed bonus

Industrial	2.35
1.55 + 0.4 + 0.4	2.35	Pristine + geological bonus

Military, Agriculture, High Tech		Weak links from other bodies

hutandrei said:
New data point (just finished): rocky planet with one slot - refinery hub. The tier 1 orbital (after subtracting the weak links) has 2.6 refinery influence.
In @Aratec case: he has 2 slots, not just one. That ground port will add extra refinery influence to the Coriolis, so instead of 2.6 (like me), he will probably have 3.0 refinery influence.

If that HMC has any geo signs on it, that could add 1.4 industrial planetary influence to the t1 port, respectively 2.2 industrial influence to the Coriolis. It will kill most of the refinery products.

Even if not, why build 3 refinery hubs to get only to 2.7 refinery influence, when you could build only one and get more (3.0).

HMC -> 6 refinery hubs + t1 port. It's actually 5.35 refinery influence now, since I built a new refinery in system. 3 weak links to refineries now, so without them the refinery influence is 5.0. Probably 5.0 is the cap, the maximum you could get, no matter how many refinery hubs you build.

Rocky -> 2 refinery hubs + t1 port, subtracting the 7 weak links to refineries -> refinery influence just from this planet for the ground port = 3.4 The orbital got an extra 0.4.

for your new data point:

Refinery	2.6
0.8 x 1	0.8	Strong link from a hub
1.4 x 1	1.4	Override (rocky)
0.4 x 1	0.4	Pristine bonus

There may be some errors, but I hope it helps with your calculations.

Starsong · May 5, 2025

Is the initial post on this thread still being updated? Do we know any more about the different sliders now?

Ian Doncaster · May 5, 2025

Starsong said:
Is the initial post on this thread still being updated? Do we know any more about the different sliders now?

Not a lot, though there was a post by Factabulous somewhere I meant to incorporate into it.

EDIT: done

Ro Anne · May 5, 2025

betel01 said:
Thank you for the information !
I've put together a table combining your data and my own experience. I've made some adjustments to make the numbers add up, so they might not be accurate.

Category Value
Links
Strong link (Tier 1) 0.4
Strong link (Tier 2) 0.8
Weak link 0.05
Planetary effects (overrides)
Rocky Refinery 1.4
Rocky ice Refinery 1.4 / Industrial 1.4
HMC (ringed & geological) Extraction 2.8 ?
HMC Extraction 1.4
HMC (Silicate magma) Extraction 1.8
HMC (organics) Extraction: 1.4 / Agriculture 1.4 / Terraforming 1.4
Icy (Water magma) Extraction 1.8 / Industrial 2.4
Star with asteroid belts Extraction 1.4 / Military 1.0
Boosts for strong links
Extraction body bonus 1.2 Pristine + geological + ringed
Industrial body bonus 0.8 Pristine + geological
Pristine system bonus 0.4
Penalties for strong links
Agriculture on icy -0.4

My hypothesis, which was mostly mentioned in the patch notes, is that a planetary port aggregates strong links from surface facilities and applies boosts and penalties for the aggregate strong link only once rather than per link.
If there is an orbital port around the same body, the planetary port sends both this aggregated link and planetary effects (overrides) as a strong link, and applies boosts and penalties again.
The problem is that when a planetary port sends a strong link to an orbital station, the pristine system bonus may not be applied properly.

So, your data breakdown would be:

Planetary port
Refinery 5.3
0.8 x 6 4.8 T2 strong links from 6 hubs
0.4 x 1 0.4 Pristine system bonus for agrigated strong link
0.05 x 2 0.1 Weak links from 2 hubs on other bodies
Extraction 2.95
1.4 + 1.4 ? 2.8 ? Orverride (geologicals & ringed)
0.05 x 3 0.15 Weak links from other bodies
Industrial 1.55
1.4 x 1 1.4 Override (geologicals)
0.05 x 3 0.15 Weak links from other bodies
Military 0.3
0.05 x 6 0.3 Weak links from other bodies
Agriculture 0.2
0.05 x 4 0.2 Weak links from other bodies
High Tech 0.15
0.05 x 3 0.15 Weak links from other bodies
Coriolis
Refinery 5.3 No pristine bonus (?). I had the same experience.
Extraction 4.15
2.95 + 0.4 + 0.4 + 0.4 4.15 Pristine + geological + ringed bonus
Industrial 2.35
1.55 + 0.4 + 0.4 2.35 Pristine + geological bonus
Military, Agriculture, High Tech Weak links from other bodies

for your new data point:

Refinery 2.6
0.8 x 1 0.8 Strong link from a hub
1.4 x 1 1.4 Override (rocky)
0.4 x 1 0.4 Pristine bonus

There may be some errors, but I hope it helps with your calculations.

Wow cool!
To contribute: I made a Commercial Outpost over a water world (with carbon-water-based life!) and got Tourism 1.40, Agriculture 1.00. I don't know if that's the value for all water worlds, or if the mention of life boosted the Tourism.
Then I built a second Commercial Outpost over the water world. It is also Tourism 1.40, Agriculture 1.00 of course. The main Outpost now has two strong links, 1 Agriculture and 1 Tourism, and its totals are now Tourism 2.20, Agriculture 1.40

So the links from the new Outpost were worth .80 Tourism and .40 Agriculture, I guess. The system doesn't have black holes or anything, but the patch notes say Tourism links are boosted by orbiting a water world. And by "On or orbiting a body with organics" but I don't know if that only means organic signals on landables, or if it counts the organics described in (some?) water worlds and gas giants.

...I'm so lost on the basics of how this work...
Why exactly is that Tourism strong link giving .80? I presume that's a 0.40 base, doubled because it's orbiting a water world. If I built a T2 Tourism Installation (Space Bar), would its strong link give 0.80 base doubled to 1.60?

(I'm using this system to test things but I guess it's a decent agriculture exporter for having no landables)

Edit: I'm most interested in sending a bunch of links into a planetary port which will then (I'm reading?) "pass along" those links to an orbiting port! But I am completely lost on what numbers to expect, there, so I'm trying to understand this much simpler scenario first.

hutandrei · May 5, 2025

Not necessary organics.
Does your water world have volcanism? That would do it as well.

Cmdr Sylveste · May 5, 2025

hutandrei said:
New data point (just finished): rocky planet with one slot - refinery hub. The tier 1 orbital (after subtracting the weak links) has 2.6 refinery influence.
In @Aratec case: he has 2 slots, not just one. That ground port will add extra refinery influence to the Coriolis, so instead of 2.6 (like me), he will probably have 3.0 refinery influence.

If that HMC has any geo signs on it, that could add 1.4 industrial planetary influence to the t1 port, respectively 2.2 industrial influence to the Coriolis. It will kill most of the refinery products.

Even if not, why build 3 refinery hubs to get only to 2.7 refinery influence, when you could build only one and get more (3.0).

HMC -> 6 refinery hubs + t1 port. It's actually 5.35 refinery influence now, since I built a new refinery in system. 3 weak links to refineries now, so without them the refinery influence is 5.0. Probably 5.0 is the cap, the maximum you could get, no matter how many refinery hubs you build.

Rocky -> 2 refinery hubs + t1 port, subtracting the 7 weak links to refineries -> refinery influence just from this planet for the ground port = 3.4 The orbital got an extra 0.4.

What are the advantages of refinery hubs, if you are not countering planetary influence or weak links from other parts of the system?
I have a system with only rocky bodies. Some have only 1 surface slot, and others have 3.
If I fill surface slots with refinery hubs, I am going to struggle to build T1 stuff (for the T2 points) which has zero influence on the system, unless I build T1 colony ports/outposts.

Ro Anne · May 5, 2025

hutandrei said:
Not necessary organics.
Does your water world have volcanism? That would do it as well.

...Oh it does! I didn't expect Water Worlds could have... Water Geysers. Huh.
It also has an atmosphere, pristine reserves, and is tidally locked.

So the tourism is probably boosted by the presence of Geologicals, not the mention of life in the water (which probably doesn't count like Organic signals being present).
And I guess a space farm's strong link would be worth .20 or .10 due to the tidal lock. (Agriculture is granted by water worlds but not boosted by it)

Edit: OH but maybe the atmosphere would provide an agriculture boost?? The patch notes forgot to mention atmosphere doing anything, but posts here seemed pretty sure.

hutandrei · May 5, 2025

Cmdr Sylveste said:
What are the advantages of refinery hubs, if you are not countering planetary influence or weak links from other parts of the system?
I have a system with only rocky bodies. Some have only 1 surface slot, and others have 3.
If I fill surface slots with refinery hubs, I am going to struggle to build T1 stuff (for the T2 points) which has zero influence on the system, unless I build T1 colony ports/outposts.

Better supply, but if you like your existing supply levels , you don't have to build any more refineries.
On the other hand, if you don't want to mess up the refinery production, there is not much else you can build, maybe agriculture assets?

I am exactly in the same situation, I had to build no less than 8 outposts, and 3 t1 ports.

Stickymaddness · May 5, 2025

Post patch of my Orbis system I've posted about previously:

Recap:

Science Outpost primary
Orbis over Rocky world with 2 organics, only the Orbis has been built ground/space slots all empty
Military, Agri, and High tech facilities were built elsewhere in the system (so they don't affect things) to stat pad and gain T2/T3 points

Science outpost went from 1.0 High Tech to 1.2 HT, 0.1 Mil, 0.05 Agri (space farm weak link)

Orbis Before	Orbis After
"Refinery","Proportion":1.15 "Agriculture","Proportion":1.15	"Agriculture","Proportion":1.45 "Refinery","Proportion":1.4 "Terraforming","Proportion":1.0 "High Tech","Proportion":0.2 "Military","Proportion":0.1

At a quick glance I've completely lost...insulating membrane, polymers, semiconductors, superconductors, gold, silver, uranium, cobalt, gallium.

Like many others, all of the outposts are still under development, all of these systems only contain the Star Port listed (primary)

Star Port	Body	Economy
Coriolis, completed post-patch	Ice world, volcanism	"Industrial","Proportion":2.4 "Extraction","Proportion":1.8
Commerial Outpost, completed pre-patch	Water World	"Tourism","Proportion":1.4 "Agriculture","Proportion":1.0
Coriolis, completed pre-patch	HMC	"Extraction","Proportion":1.4
Commerial Outpost, completed pre-patch	Iceworld	"Industrial","Proportion":1.4
Military Outpost	Star	"Military","Proportion":1.0

Cmdr Sylveste · May 5, 2025

hutandrei said:
Better supply, but if you like your existing supply levels , you don't have to build any more refineries.
On the other hand, if you don't want to mess up the refinery production, there is not much else you can build, maybe agriculture assets?

I am exactly in the same situation, I had to build no less than 8 outposts, and 3 t1 ports.

Currently I have just finished the primary port, a commercial outpost orbiting one of the 3 slot bodies. I am currently building a T1 surface port on this body. Until I have finished it (hopefully tomorrow) I have no idea what the supply levels are going to be. Population is only 5k at the moment so levels in the orbital are low.