Discuss the AI here!

What do you think of the new AI?

  • Too hard

    Votes: 954 46.7%
  • Just right

    Votes: 838 41.0%
  • Too easy

    Votes: 117 5.7%
  • Other (give reason)

    Votes: 134 6.6%

  • Total voters
    2,043
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
They need to be careful not to overreact to this, the difficulties good but when they tweak it they need to do it slowly downwards until we get to a happy medium, currently too many ships have engineer modules and I think the low ranks are too hard - infact the elites have been the easiest so far, master seemed the hardest lol.

Apart from said rank inconsistencies though the upper ranks are great, exactly the way they should be.

They will also have to adjust any related game stats associated with kill time, as its at least double what it used to be (bounties, elite ranking, mission requirements/rewards etc)
 
So where exactly is the game "teaching" better combat skills, genius? All I know is I can't even see the enemies as they stay behind me and blast me to oblivion. You have NO idea what starting out like this is. It is utterly impossible to fight anything. If I were to have just bought the game and experienced this, I would have IMMEDIATELY returned it via Steam for a refund. There is no chance for new players like me with the difficulty this high. There is no 'learning' on the new AI, there is only dying. How can I practice and get better when I can't last fifteen seconds against an Eagle with my Cobra mk III?

Sure, in your selfish arrogance you can thumb you nose and say I don't know what I'm doing, and you're right, that's why I'm NEW at the game, because I don't know what I'm #$^$in' DOING. We can't all be amazing geniuses like you.

We are only as good as our teachers. Our teachers used to be a bit crap. Please resist making personal remarks. Maybe reading the suggestions (from some very capable CMDRs, no less, and I am far from one) and on boarding constructive guidance would help.

I got my backside handed to me in beta. After a few bruises I figured it out. I had to learn, no different from anyone else.

I mean keep making personal observations and swearing like a mad beggar if you like, but there's stuff to learn if you are prepared to do so.
 
I am yet to try the new NPC AI, looking forward to trying it tonight. But thought I would have look here first and see what's being said...

NPCs being too hard for some who do not welcome combat and just want to trade/explore seems to be the main gripe.

I know it's been suggested for a long time on similar threads, but I think it needs to be suggested again...

NPC Combat Pilots for hire! Especially if more enemy NPCs are going to be encountered in wings, even an experienced combat pilot can benefit from a good wingman. It shouldn't be too hard to implement, pay based on jump distance (or time hired, per day/hour?), higher combat ranked NPCs cost more than lower, but more lower ranked NPCs can swarm an enemy... I think this would fix soooo much of problems that seem to be annoying a lot of the community with this particular aspect IMHO. You could even 'earn' NPC wingman time with particular factions/powerplay by building your reputation with them!

Just a thought.
 
IMHO the balance is now too far the other way. It may be fine for the veterans with powerful ships who have made millions from robigo,

Whatt ?!

For a God sake, then what, a folk in cobra after one day of playing should easily kill NPC Elite FDL ?
No, he should die faster than light on first try. Game should punish stupidity.
 
Last edited:
How droll

The difference between you and I is that I've been here less than 2 weeks...how long have you been here oh masterful one?

Don't let the veterans put you off, part of the current difficulty will get toned down I can feel it (hopefully not all of it). You might have to grind away to improve your combat skills or just take non-combat roles for a while until it settles down i'd expect tweaks within a week.
 
What? I am not playing so much either, but at least I manage to adapt and develop myself. Something which you obviously cannot!

You hear that? It is the whine train (whine whine whine), inside are a lot of players who cannot handle intelligent AI. God beware, they will be heard.

Necessary forum PvP?
 
At the risk of winding people up: If combat is too hard for you now regardless of the ship you're in, then maybe the life of a combat pilot isn't for you. I'm a terrible trader, I have no mind for it and I invariably make a complete hash of it. I don't complain that trading is too hard. I fight other ships. I win more often than I lose, and I am good at it, and FINALLY we have got a challenge from NPC's. For the love of god don't change it, the combat has finally got interesting.
 
As refreshing as it is to see MoM's new minions roaming about the galaxy with an undying hatred for all life, I voted Too Hard - the reason being one of the encounters I had yesterday, which got me thinking about the distribution of extremely hard NPC's.

I was couriering a handful of Survival Systems from BD+28 413 to Purut to test out the new mission system - and bear in mind that since my last restart (ho hum) I'm ranked Penniless in trade. 55k credits, a nice starting sum for a new player to be sure. As I was dropping in on station I was interdicted by a Dangerous Viper III who gave me about six seconds to drop cargo before opening fire.

Now just prior to 2.1 dropping I had tasted the hate of MoM's new generation right in my valuable, vulnerable face, so I was lucky enough to A-rate a Viper IV with which to start the New Era, and I know how to escape an interdiction. The railgun-equipped Viper still blew off a ring of my shields with a volley as I winked back into supercruise and onto the station.

As I accepted the reward and the mild abuse of the mission giver (only 135.5 million to go, woo!) I reflected on this encounter and my other experiences in other games. Thanks to my ship I was fine - but what if I'd have been a brand new player in a Sidey? It was a Penniless mission in populated space. A railgun equipped Dangerous Viper III would in all likelyhood have been a death sentence. Now other games, like Dark Souls, have a similar level of difficulty and expectation of death - but even that famous series has a couple of caveats that make the danger fun rather than a chore:-

* Enemies are grouped into rough geographical areas by difficulty. An end-game creature cannot randomly spawn in a low-level area.
* Although you lose your progression to next level, you have a chance to recover your dropped souls at the point of your death AND there is no risk of losing what you've already attained - you won't lose levels by dying.

Elite has a random spawn system, meaning you can potentially get interdicted by "end game" grade enemies without warning, and the insurance system means that if you can't stay ahead of a minimum income level then eventually you will lose everything - you're back in a Sidewinder. Combined and unmitigated, that could potentially turn the game into an exercise in frustration and annoyance rather than a pleasure, especially for new players who aren't as emotionally invested in Elite as a lot of us forum old-hands are.

There are aspects of game design evolution that have occurred over the last decade or so that have done very well for games as a source of entertainment and satisfaction. I know Frontier are invested in making the game they want, but unless the goal is Dark Souls in space with random chance of uber-NPC/death/loss of assets despite player input and care, it'd probably be worth considering the whole picture when accounting for how all these new and old systems interact with each other.

As for the "git gud" approach, yes the new combat can be exciting, but it remains to be seen how much fun every dogfight being a fraught life and death struggle would be after a month or two - especially for players without without access to large ships and generous bank accounts and thus having the bulk of a need to find an income stream behind them. Also, bugs - there appears to be a few at the moment, but fighters taking out multi-million top end ships without breaking a sweat is probably worth a thread on its own (I think I can hear ship economics screaming from here :p )
 
At the risk of winding people up: If combat is too hard for you now regardless of the ship you're in, then maybe the life of a combat pilot isn't for you. I'm a terrible trader, I have no mind for it and I invariably make a complete hash of it. I don't complain that trading is too hard. I fight other ships. I win more often than I lose, and I am good at it, and FINALLY we have got a challenge from NPC's. For the love of god don't change it, the combat has finally got interesting.

Exactly.
If combat is too hard fore someone it mean its not a fault of combat or hard IT, it mean he just do not know how to play. He can learn or try trading, exploring, or he just should attack easier enemies. This is his problem, his fault, not game, not AI, not us.
 
Last edited:
Don't let the veterans put you off, part of the current difficulty will get toned down I can feel it (hopefully not all of it). You might have to grind away to improve your combat skills or just take non-combat roles for a while until it settles down i'd expect tweaks within a week.

I'm not sure why, considering that the majority of people who come to the forum to comment on the AI either seem to think that the AI is either just right or too easy. The odds are not in favor of your party, friend.
 
Last edited:
This is amazing how folks can cry 'too hard' only because they lost (they was even not desroyed, but only forced to run) one or two fights with new AI in their old non-combat builds :D

Just...

latest

... please
 
Last edited:
I managed to take down and Elite Anaconda in a RES site last night after about 15 minutes of cat and mouse. It was a great battle and I was on edge for the whole thing. However, when I finally killed it and earned 76000Cr, and my repair bill from the encounter was only slightly less than that, I was left wondering about the point of doing it in the first place. Oh well, if it is the shape of things to be, then I am fine with it, but I really feel sorry for anybody who doesn't have a multi billion credit bank balance or a new player, its going to be carnage! :D

I've been playing about two weeks.

From what I'm seeing, anyone who has it made with expensive ships likes it, and any of us who don't are screwed.


The best ships for dealing with tougher AI in 2.1 are actually the federal and imperial Eagles. Two very affordable and very FUN ships. They can out-turn the enemy quite easily and take on much bigger ships, especially in RES where you get plenty of help from the miners and police to kill things quickly. And relatively risk/investement free.
 
Last edited:
Wow. Seriously, I did not expect THAT. I'm so bored by this modern video games paradigm: let the player feel like he's smart.

I've been pummeled by AIs... 2 times in less than one hour. Hating multiplayer, I always play solo... and now I can see how much I suck at this game. I lost 25% of my money buying the same new ship. First, I shouted at my screen... then calm down and smiled in a high feeling of nostalgia (Ghouls & Ghost and such quite old and insanely hard games of the 80's). I want more kick in the ass like that! I wanna suffer, I wanna be punished for my laziness, I wanna fear the universe! Time to gain REAL experience... yeah, that's the spirit which has been lost by video games since ages. ENOUGH! Back to the basics.

Now that really feels like Elite: Dangerous. Thanks FD, though I fear that you will submit to whinners... everyone does in this industry... so please, I'm begging you: stay rock solid with that decision and you will gain all my respect (and believe me, it's really hard).

I go try again. I must train again and again. But first, I have some serious fittings to reconsider ;)
 
I agree. This has ruined the game utterly. I've been playing about two weeks.

Then build up Your ship or kill easier enemies until your ship/skill grow up.

Big fishes are for big boys. You can become one of course, you just need to play a game.

then calm down and smiled in a high feeling of nostalgia (Ghouls & Ghost and such quite old and insanely hard games of the 80's). I want more kick in the ass like that! I wanna suffer, I wanna be punished for my laziness, I wanna fear the universe! Time to gain REAL experience... yeah, that's the spirit which has been lost by video games since ages. ENOUGH! Back to the basics.

And thats the spirit mate!
HIGH FIVE and props for You.

Folks, the rep's for ^ this guy, please!
 
Last edited:
Until you get enough mats for engi mods, the best ships for dealing with tougher AI in 2.1 are actually the federal and imperial Eagles. Two very affordable and very FUN ships. They can out-turn the enemy quite easily and take on much bigger ships, especially in RES where you get plenty of help from the miners and police to kill things quickly. And relatively risk/investement free.

Then again, if these new players really are in Babby's first Sidey or a Hauler and get swarmed by master+ npcs in a high security system, then something might not be completely right. If it's because of the mission danger rank, then okay, but otherwise it's not the difficulty that needs an overhaul, but the level and audacity of NPCs spawning for said players.
 
Here's a question:
With the ramped up difficulty of NPCs, are the bounty rewards for combat now higher to match the added risk / reward levels?

Serious question; not trolling / baiting.
I'm interested to know.
The python I killed last night only gave me 150k or so, so I'm guessing possibly not, but there may be a "range" of reward amount that I've not taken into account.
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom