PvP Distant Ganks 2 Week 1 Update

[PeLucheuh]

Yep. You dodged the point.

Don't blame ya

I don't blame ya either for doing the same

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Sure Bob.

Their words. Not mine.

That's called taking responsibility for their actions.
Their actions do not determine the lack of content however.

 

[Rob At Work]

Yep.
They've been known to use "tools" and team tactics, will follow prey inland...

WOW, people often under estimate the intelligence of other predators, it's an Elite thing apparently.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's called taking responsibility for their actions.
Their actions do not determine the lack of content however.

But the lack of content determines their actions. Right?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't blame ya either for doing the same

Oh you had a point. So sorry, I thought you were taking a cheap shot.

Was your point that I took those quotes out of context? If so, I'd love for you to provide the context that puts those 2 quotes in a different light

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

That's called taking responsibility for their actions.
Their actions do not determine the lack of content however.

If the content of this game is not to their liking, perhaps they might care to try another game. EvE, I hear, has all the aggressive ruthless gameplay they desire. Oh wait, they've already been there for years and then come here - for the nice cockpits and lack of point-and-click spreadsheet nonsense in EvE. If only Elite could be like EvE, with cockpits, but without all these damned carebears! But no, sorry - wrong game!

TL;DR - This is not the game you're looking for.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

But the lack of content determines their actions. Right?

No, we covered that already.
They kill regardless.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

If the content of this game is not to their liking, perhaps they might care to try another game. EvE, I hear, has all the aggressive ruthless gameplay they desire. Oh wait, they've already been there for years and then come here - for the nice cockpits and lack of point-and-click spreadsheet nonsense in EvE. If only Elite could be like EvE, with cockpits, but without all these damned carebears! But no, sorry - wrong game!

TL;DR - This is not the game you're looking for.

The game IS to their liking.
Haven't you heard the laughter?!

That's just an explanation of why they are killing who they are killing.

Some rich irony there, since killing Cmdrs for no reason is explicitly OK according to the devs.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Agreed. Yet, whenever an Open PvE mode is requested, a lot of Open PvP Commanders balk.
[...]it is of course every Open Pvper's right to free speech and to belittle those that wish for an Open PvE mode; you may judge us as you see fit.

I assume you were replying to me because I had bolded Aunt's statement, but so it's clear, I've never even used the phrase "open pve" on this site until this sentence. I don't judge you or really care about this at all.

 

[Morbad]

But the lack of content determines their actions. Right?

Well, no, but I definitely understand how some could become bored with PvE combat content like this:

[video=youtube;LIdOunjGr20]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIdOunjGr20[/video]

NPCs are programmed to be convenient. People don't like getting rammed, so NPCs try to avoid collisions so strongly that they won't even apply the breaks to stop two-thousand ton corvettes from sitting on their butts, yet can't handle maneuvering in rocks well enough to avoid getting T-boned by, or losing games of chicken with, the same.

Not that gunning down docking computer Asps with frag boat FDLs is often more challenging, but at least you have to win an interdiction and there is some potential to encounter someone whose life goal isn't to line up and get shot.

 

[StiTch]

Except its those who do the PvP who tell PvEers they are carebears and they should git gud and if they want to play the BGS/PP/etc they should do it in open.

They don't want others to play their own way, they want them to play the way they do.

Yeah, only that's not what happens, and you're constructing strawmen. Tisk, isn't that what you are supposed to tell people not to do?

The majority of PvPers will simply state that if you made the choice to play in Open, then don't complain when open-y things happen. In addition, they will provide advice to help people play in said game mode without being bait for others - i.e. teaching them how to use the escape tools available.

That doesn't mean PvPers will tell people they have to use escape tools. At the end of the day, this is as far as true "play your way" goes in ED - you can choose whether you actually have some practicality and survivability, even if it means you lose an edge in your chosen profession, be it fighting/trading/whatever - or you can have that edge at the cost of practicality.

None of the above are "correct", however it's pertinent if not outright helpful to show players that conflict in any game mode, especially Open, is possible, and that you have options as to building and piloting your ship. If you choose to ignore said advice and build a shieldless, max cargo/jump trader cutter, or a jump-less combat ship, then that's your God-given right as an ED player - but options are available, so accept the maxed playstyle will have concessions, and don't whine when that concession comes back to bite you.

 

[mossfoot]

If you want to come into open, prepare your ship or your forum salt post for after you get killed. If you want to play solo/PG, I truly hope you enjoy your time in game.

you're sending only one message I can see to those players: "You don't belong here. Get out."

Blatantly dishonest.

There is a difference between what happens in the bubble and an expedition like this. A bunch of people who play differently than you decided to organize a trip far away from the bubble, people you knew would be unprepared for you. Because not everyone is well networked as you guys are.

If your little massacre party taught you anything, it should be that not everyone knows about Private Groups, or get information from the forums, or knew better than to show up on Open. They just heard about an exploration mission and wanted to join.

Or, to use another term: filthy casuals.

And, of course, the original post from ryan_m that started this bit included the line:

Please don't force your gameplay preferences or choices onto other people.

But isn't that what you're doing by hunting down these people? People who are participating in something that has nothing to do with you. There is no reason to do this other than to show them the error of their ways with their loadouts. Seems like you're forcing your gameplay preferences and choices on them.

I believe anything goes in the bubble in Open because just about any choice of action can be rationalized in-game in some fashion. There's certainly no in-game rationale for this. This is just a motorcycle gang reading about a cross-country bicycle trip for charity, and deciding now would be a great time to cosplay Fury Road.

And, of course, blaming the bicyclists for not riding motorcycles.

 

[Goose4291]

If the content of this game is not to their liking, perhaps they might care to try another game. EvE, I hear, has all the aggressive ruthless gameplay they desire. Oh wait, they've already been there for years and then come here - for the nice cockpits and lack of point-and-click spreadsheet nonsense in EvE. If only Elite could be like EvE, with cockpits, but without all these damned carebears! But no, sorry - wrong game!

TL;DR - This is not the game you're looking for.

It's time for story time with Goose...

Interesting thing. Most of the PvPers I know have either never touched Eve, or barely so.

The ones who wanted the Eve in cockpits, were the big player groups obsessed with the BGS (and by proxy territory domination) who primarily PvE'd, or used PvE as indirect PvP between themselves. Many of them have now gone onto pastures new, or at the very least are quiet following the debacle that was The Dangerous Games.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

No, we covered that already.
They kill regardless.

Guess this is what happens when Frontier leaves a bug in the game that breaks all PvP and makes it literally unplayable, not to mention the complete lack of any PvP content over the past few years.

FDev's complete indifference to true PvP content has lead us to seek to create our own for a bit.

So if lack of content is irrelevant to their actions both these comments are false.
Lack of content has no impact on their actions.
Which mean Frontier will not prevent this behaviour by creating content.

Message recieved, thanks for clarifying Bob.

 

[Goose4291]

Well, no, but I definitely understand how some could become bored with PvE combat content like this:



NPCs are programmed to be convenient. People don't like getting rammed, so NPCs try to avoid collisions so strongly that they won't even apply the breaks to stop two-thousand ton corvettes from sitting on their butts, yet can't handle maneuvering in rocks well enough to avoid getting T-boned by, or losing games of chicken with, the same.

Not that gunning down docking computer Asps with frag boat FDLs is often more challenging, but at least you have to win an interdiction and there is some potential to encounter someone whose life goal isn't to line up and get shot.

I would be so happy if they brought back the challenging AI that the anti-change brigade managed to get rolled back.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Guess this is what happens when Frontier leaves a bug in the game that breaks all PvP and makes it literally unplayable, not to mention the complete lack of any PvP content over the past few years.

FDev's complete indifference to true PvP content has lead us to seek to create our own for a bit.

So if lack of content is irrelevant to their actions both these comments are false.
Lack of content has no impact on their actions.
Which mean Frontier will not prevent this behaviour by creating content.

Message recieved, thanks for clarifying Bob.

You are equivocating/moving the goalposts with "this behavior".

Do you mean just "killing" or "killing of player groups x y and z"?


If you mean just killing, yes, killers kill.
And no one is blaming FDev for that, aside from accommodating via the rules.

If you are referring to the choice/variety of targets available, that changes things considerably.
That part is on FDev.


Killers can only kill what is available.
Just like real predators.
That's actually why some animals become man eaters; we've starved them out of their normal prey.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

Some rich irony there, since killing Cmdrs for no reason is explicitly OK according to the devs.

Indeed it is, and I have no issue with Cmdrs destroying Cmdrs in the rawest sense of the gameplay. "For no reason at all", as you say.

But that simple notion really isn't what this thread has been discussing, and you know this. There are reasons behind the so called 'distant worlds gank', and it has nothing to do with Zarek Null roleplay which was once amusing but is now just a tiresome excuse.

Why not be frank and lay those reasons bare?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

There is a difference between what happens in the bubble and an expedition like this. A bunch of people who play differently than you decided to organize a trip far away from the bubble, people you knew would be unprepared for you. Because not everyone is well networked as you guys are.

If your little massacre party taught you anything, it should be that not everyone knows about Private Groups, or get information from the forums, or knew better than to show up on Open. They just heard about an exploration mission and wanted to join.

Or, to use another term: filthy casuals.

And, of course, the original post from ryan_m that started this bit included the line:



But isn't that what you're doing by hunting down these people? People who are participating in something that has nothing to do with you. There is no reason to do this other than to show them the error of their ways with their loadouts. Seems like you're forcing your gameplay preferences and choices on them.

I believe anything goes in the bubble in Open because just about any choice of action can be rationalized in-game in some fashion. There's certainly no in-game rationale for this. This is just a motorcycle gang reading about a cross-country bicycle trip for charity, and deciding now would be a great time to cosplay Fury Road.

And, of course, blaming the bicyclists for not riding motorcycles.

You are all over the place now.
That part I quoted was blatantly dishonest.

I simply reject any of your justifications for that dishonesty.

Put down your rage and fist-full of straw, please.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Indeed it is, and I have no issue with Cmdrs destroying Cmdrs in the rawest sense of the gameplay. "For no reason at all", as you say.

But that simple notion really isn't what this thread has been discussing, and you know this. There are reasons behind the so called 'distant worlds gank', and it has nothing to do with Zarek Null roleplay which was once amusing but is now just a tiresome excuse.

Why not be frank and lay those reasons bare?

It's funny?

It's largely taking place in open, so what is the problem exactly?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You are equivocating/moving the goalposts with "this behavior".

Do you mean just "killing" or "killing of player groups x y and z"?


If you mean just killing, yes, killers kill.
And no one is blaming FDev for that, aside from accommodating via the rules.

If you are referring to the choice/variety of targets available, that changes things considerably.
That part is on FDev.


Killers can only kill what is available.
Just like real predators.
That's actually why some animals become man eaters; we've starved them out of their normal prey.

I'm not moving goalposts, I stuck to those 2 quotes consistently. And they refered to DG2.

Obfuscation is your spiel when you tried to reverse my claim

If they blame Fdev for their actions, they're not taking responsibility for their actions.