DLC20 Discussion (maybe, but why not?)

Inspired by the recent discussion what would be your top picks for the 8 biogeographic realms

nearactic
  • virginia opposum
  • white tailed deer
  • mallard
  • canada goose
  • wild turkey
  • american black bear
  • sea otter

palearctic
  • western roe deer
  • european rabbit
  • northern chamois
  • alpine marmot
  • harbor seal
  • eurasian pine marten
  • white stork

afrotropical
  • nile crocodile
  • mantled guereza
  • helmeted guineafowl
  • de brazzas monkey
  • black backed jackal
  • common eland
  • cape ground squirrel

indomalayan
  • chital
  • banteng
  • nilgai
  • blackbuck
  • reeves muntjac
  • long tailed macaque
  • silver pheasant

australasian
  • perentie
  • short beaked echidna
  • goodfellow tree kangaroo
  • tiger quoll
  • kakapo
  • common brushtail possum
  • greater bilby

neotropical
  • patagonian mara
  • azaras agouti
  • black and gold howler monkey
  • south american coati
  • golden lion tamarin
  • northern tamandua
  • pampas deer

oceanian (the oceania pack had no native oceanian relam animals)
  • hawaiian monk seal
  • mariana monitor
  • pacific black duck
  • pacific reef heron
  • buffbanded rail
  • nene
  • green sea turtle

  • Bolson Tortoise
  • Walrus
  • White-Tailed Der
  • Cuban Crocodile
  • North American Porcupine
  • Brown Pelican
  • Muskox
  • Alpine marmot
  • Aoudad
  • Barbary Macaque
  • Common Eider
  • Mountain Gazelle
  • Tanuki
  • Siberian Musk Deer
  • Greater Kudu
  • Central Slender-Snouted Crocodile
  • Grey Crowned Crane
  • Honey Badger
  • Gerenuk
  • Jentink's Duiker
  • Marabou Stork
  • Nilgai
  • Blackbuck
  • Père David's Deer
  • Red-Shanked Douc
  • Asian Forest Tortoise
  • Reeve's Muntjac
  • Crab-Eating Macaque
  • Northern Plains Langur
  • Eastern Long-Beaked Echidna
  • Matschie's Tree-Kangaroo
  • Sulawesi Bear Cuscus
  • Tiger Quoll
  • Lace Monitor
  • Superb Lyrebird
  • White-Striped Dorcopis
  • South American Coati
  • Patagonian Mara
  • Argentine Black-&-White Tegu
  • Red-Footed Tortoise
  • Southern Tamandua
  • Black-&-Gold Howler
  • Marsh Deer
  • Green Sea Turtle
  • Kagu
  • Pacific Black Duck
  • Glossy Ibis
  • Nene
  • Pacific Reef Egret
  • Hawaiian Monk Seal
  • Leopard Seal
  • Southern Elephant Seal
  • Yellow-Billed Pintail
  • Northern Gentoo Penguin
  • Sub-Antarctic Fur Seal
  • Royal Penguin
  • Antarctic Shag
 
Oceania is definitely in the bottom half of the continents I'm looking to revisit, but I still think it has enough going for it to create a pack that would do a lot for me, even leaning into "clones"
  • Yellow-footed rock wallaby
  • Gray kangaroo species
  • Southern hairy-nosed wombat
  • Perentie
  • Southern rockhopper penguin
  • Black swan
  • Short-beaked echidna
Literally just the echidna would need any real degree of effort put into it beyond the model. You might scoff at both a kangaroo and a wallaby in one pack, but I would just refer back to the addax and dama gazelle. The grey kangaroo is fairly expendable though so if you wanted to trade it out for idk another bird or a more unique marsupial I wouldn't fault you.
 
Australasia Animal Pack Nacho's version vs Frontier's

My version:

1. Short beaked echidna
2. Perentie
3. Victoria´s crowned pigeon
4. Blac swan (or superb lyrebird if sound design is still a thing)
5. Goodfellow's tree kangaroo
6. Numbat
7. Tiger quoll

Frontier's version

1. Grey kangaroo
2. Parma wallaby
3. Perentie
4. Black swan
5. Freshwater crocodile
6. Yellow eyed penguin (not even rockhopper)
7. New guinea singing dog
 
Frontier's version

1. Grey kangaroo
2. Parma wallaby
3. Perentie
4. Black swan
5. Freshwater crocodile
6. Yellow eyed penguin (not even rockhopper)
7. New guinea singing dog
I guess it's just because of the lack of choice for carnivorans and artiodactyls for the region but even this "Frontier version" is so much better than most. Though I'm not a big fan of the yellow-eye as a choice, I'll still take two bird and two reptile "clones" in a heartbeat over another bovid/cat/canid/etc. Black swan and perentie are especially bangers. The only major duds for me here are the penguin with 0 holdings and the dog.

IDK I'm fine with "clones" now and then - especially with their current situation - as long as Frontier picks the right ones. It's just that most of those preferred ones aren't mammals for me lol. Like this is a pack I'd actually be decently content with ngl.
 
If Frontier really want an ungulate in a Australasian pack, they could throw the kunekune pig on it.
Uhhhhhhh based department? Get a load of this guy!
1746670442116.jpeg
 
Kinda wild seeing an Oceania/Australasia revisit appear as a repeated point of discussion now, I guess that's what finally getting an Americas revisit does. I still maintain it's definitely not gonna happen though, as much as I want it possibly more than anyone else.

On some of the discussion above though, while I would be fine with additional penguins in general (even if they're not super high on my wishlist), can I say I wouldn't be keen for them in an Oceania revisit? The hoiho/yellow-eyed penguin is my favourite penguin species, but they and all the other endemic NZ penguins have an extremely limited captive presence (Fiordland penguin is kept permanently only at Taronga Zoo and the rest are only in captivity temporarily as rescuees before being released back to the wild). Meanwhile, the eastern rockhopper penguin (the southern rockhopper has been split into two species, eastern and western, the former of which is the Oceanian one) is the least commonly kept of the three rockhoppers in captivity, with only three holdings listed on Zootierliste compared to 16 for western rockhopper and 18 for northern rockhopper - there's also 14 holdings listed without a designated species, most of which are in North American zoos, though given all the rockhoppers that are given a species designation in NA are either western or northern I doubt easterns contribute much to this. I just don't think they should be prioritised over other additions, the little penguin is the Oceanian penguin as far as zoos are concerned.

Oh yeah, and the New Guinea singing dog got brought up lol. Whilst I'm the forum's biggest dingo shill they're definitely very low down on my Oceania wishlist, given although they have unique howls and differ significantly from Australian dingoes in size and proportions, in the end they are just a rarer northern ecotype of dingo and shouldn't be added over an actual new species, especially given the oversaturation of canids the game has already. It'd be like adding the southern koala. That said, I adore the dingo clade so much that I'd probably end up loving them after my initial annoyance haha.
 
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Kinda wild seeing an Oceania/Australasia revisit appear as a repeated point of discussion now, I guess that's what finally getting an Americas revisit does. I still maintain it's definitely not gonna happen though, as much as I want it possibly more than anyone else.
I also would highly doubt we would get a 3rd dedicated pack for Oceania when we only have 2 dedicated packs for Africa and 1.5 for Asia(Tropical is the half). If this next DLC isn't a global finale theme, imo it's likely to be dedicated to Africa or Asia, or possibly a Safari theme that pulls heavily from both.
 
Honestly, I’ve been doing a lot of bird watching lately. Man, I wish we could get a handful of exhibit birds. At this point I do not care if we don’t have a functioning aviary system. A lot of birds in captivity don’t do much, or using a simple looped animation may be fine enough. I’m fine saving a full aviary for PZ2, and I am totally fine just compromising with the Zoo Tycoon 3 exhibit birds.

One of the situations where I really feel the lack of birds is when I try to build a local zoo section. Having no bald eagle, great horned owl, turkey vulture, etc. makes it kind of difficult.

I get a lot of people feel this way, but at this point it’s how I feel about the exhibits in general. While not an ideal system, for those who want those animals you have at least something to put them in place. I really wish Frontier didn’t just do away with the exhibit animals. It’s now been well over one full year with no exhibit or WTE animal and I honestly miss them.

Give us a decent selection of birds in the WTE, make the exhibit box null, give us a return to exhibit animals. I know it isn’t gonna happen but man I miss it.
 
Kinda wild seeing an Oceania/Australasia revisit appear as a repeated point of discussion now, I guess that's what finally getting an Americas revisit does. I still maintain it's definitely not gonna happen though, as much as I want it possibly more than anyone else.

On some of the discussion above though, while I would be fine with additional penguins in general (even if they're not super high on my wishlist), can I say I wouldn't be keen for them in an Oceania revisit? The hoiho/yellow-eyed penguin is my favourite penguin species, but they and all the other endemic NZ penguins have an extremely limited captive presence (Fiordland penguin is kept permanently only at Taronga Zoo and the rest are only in captivity temporarily as rescuees before being released back to the wild). Meanwhile, the eastern rockhopper penguin (the southern rockhopper has been split into two species, eastern and western, the former of which is the Oceanian one) is the least commonly kept of the three rockhoppers in captivity, with only three holdings listed on Zootierliste compared to 16 for western rockhopper and 18 for northern rockhopper - there's also 14 holdings listed without a designated species, most of which are in North American zoos, though given all the rockhoppers that are given a species designation in NA are either western or northern I doubt easterns contribute much to this. I just don't think they should be prioritised over other additions, the little penguin is the Oceanian penguin as far as zoos are concerned.

Oh yeah, and the New Guinea singing dog got brought up lol. Whilst I'm the forum's biggest dingo shill they're definitely very low down on my Oceania wishlist, given although they have unique howls and differ significantly from Australian dingoes in size and proportions, in the end they are just a rarer northern ecotype of dingo and shouldn't be added over an actual new species, especially given the oversaturation of canids the game has already. It'd be like adding the southern koala. That said, I adore the dingo clade so much that I'd probably end up loving them after my initial annoyance haha.
We are actually pretty good at intuitively measuring what areas are most needed.

exhibithabitattotal
africa76471
europe62531
asia96170
north america143549
south america162945
oceania62127
these are the ingame stats after americas. when looking at this the last 2 years of packs make alot more sense and why we have started seeing more people looking towards oceania because functionally it is the least represented group ingame. prior to americas and zookeeper oceania and south america were pretty much tied so the need for south america was much stronger due to a stronger global presence but not that things are evening out oceania is now once again looking appealing.
 
Inspired by the recent discussion what would be your top picks for the 8 biogeographic realms
  • Nearctic:
    • Habitat:
      1. American Black Bear
      2. Mallard Duck
      3. Wild Turkey
      4. White Tailed Deer
      5. Sea Otter
      6. Walrus
      7. Muskox
    • Aviary:
      1. Bald Eagle
      2. Snowy Owl
      3. Burrowing Owl
      4. Common Raven
      5. Peregrine Falcon
      6. Red Tailed Hawk
      7. California Condor
    • Exhibit:
      1. Luna Moth
      2. Alligator Snapping Turtle
      3. Milk Snake
      4. Corn Snake
      5. Box Turtle
      6. Red Eared Slider
      7. Chuckwalla
    • Honorable Mentions:
      • Habitat: Canadian Porcupine, Bobcat, Wapiti, Roadrunner, Great Blue Heron, Brown Pelican, Wood Duck (favorite IRL duck, but mallard is better for PZ)
      • Aviary: Screech Owl, Barred Owl, Great Horned Owl, Osprey, Passerines, Jays, Woodpeckers (IRL they'd be around 4, but I don't think they're likely. Cardinals, blue jays, goldfinches, bluebirds, chickadees, wrens, scarlet tanagers, painted buntings, western tanagers, pileated woodpeckers, and Stellar's jays are all cool.)
      • Exhibit: Hellbender, Collared Lizard, Tiger Salamander, Horny Toad, Copperhead, Garter Snake
  • Neotropical:
    • Habitat:
      1. Golden Lion Tamarin
      2. Geoffroy's Spider Monkey
      3. Scarlet Ibis
      4. South American Coati
      5. Arrau Turtle
      6. White Faced Whistling Duck
      7. Patagonian Mara
    • Aviary:
      1. Scarlet Macaw
      2. Keel-Billed Toucan
      3. Hoatzin
      4. Blue and Yellow Macaw
      5. Toco Toucan
      6. Andean Condor
      7. Hyacinth Macaw
    • Exhibit:
      1. Emerald Tree Boa
      2. Blue Poison Frog
      3. Green Anaconda
      4. Eyelash Viper
      5. Mata Mata Turtle
      6. Coral Snake
      7. Caiman Lizard
    • Honorable Mentions:
      • Habitat: Cotton Top Tamarin, Emperor Tamarin, Golden-Headed Lion Tamarin, Black Howler Monkey, Common Squirrel Monkey, Tufted Capuchin, Uakari, Roseate Spoonbill, Southern Screamer, Southern Tamandua, Red-Rumped Agouti, Brazilian Porcupine, Kinkajou, Pudu, Lowland Tapir, Mountain Tapir, Marsh Deer, Tegu, Sea Turtle, Manatee, Brown Pelican, Chinchilla or Viscacha
      • Aviary: Great Green Macaw, Sun Conure, Resplendent Quetzal, Amazonian Green Parrot, Green Conure (any), Harpy Eagle, Hummingbird(s)
      • Exhibit: Strawberry Poison Frog, Dyeing Poison Frog, Rainbow Boa
  • Australasian
    • Habitat:
      1. Goodfellow's Tree Kangaroo
      2. Short-Beaked Echidna
      3. Perentie
      4. Yellow-Footed Rock Wallaby
      5. Black Swan
      6. Brushtail Possum
      7. Greater Bilby
    • Aviary:
      1. Laughing Kookaburra
      2. Budgeriguar
      3. Sulfur-Crested Cockatoo
      4. Bird(s) of Paradise
      5. Victoria Crowned Pigeon
      6. Palm Cockatoo
      7. Rainbow Lorikeet
    • Exhibit:
      1. Thorny Devil
      2. Bearded Dragon
      3. Carpet Python
      4. Tuatara
      5. Frilled Lizard
      6. Blue Moon Butterfly
      7. White's Tree Frog
    • Honorable Mentions:
      • Habitat: Grey Kangaroo, Numbat, Australian Pelican, Quoll, Magpie Goose, Sea Turtle, Brown Fur Seal, Pig-Nosed Turtle
      • Aviary: Galah, Pink Cockatoo, Red Lory, Black Lory, Dusky Lory, Sooty Owl, Kea, Kakapo, Gouldian Finch, Rosella, Magpie, Splendid Fairywren
  • Indomalayan
    • Habitat:
      1. Blackbuck
      2. Fishing Cat
      3. Honey Badger
      4. Grey Langur
      5. Red-Shanked Douc
      6. Nilgai
      7. Demoiselle Crane
    • Aviary:
      1. Great Hornbill
      2. Victoria Crowned Pigeon
      3. Eclectus Parrots
      4. Bali Mynah
      5. Fruit Dove(s)
      6. Rhinoceros Hornbill
      7. Rose Ringed Parakeet
    • Exhibit:
      1. Indian Cobra
      2. Orchid Mantis
      3. Emerald Swallowtail
      4. Ball Python
      5. Stick Insect
      6. Philippine Sailfin Dragon
      7. Tokay Gecko
    • Honorable Mentions:
      • Habitat: Northern Red Muntjac, Lowland Anoa, Chital, Hog or Sambar Deer, Sumatran Rhino, Lion Tailed Macaque, East Javan Langur, Rhesus Macaque, Sumatran Tiger, Banded Palm Civet, Bar-Headed Goose, Painted Stork, Painted Terrapin, False Gharial, Cloud Rat
      • Exhibit: Water Dragon, Island Pit Viper, Burmese Python, Mossy Frog
  • Palearctic
    • Habitat:
      1. Mandarin Duck
      2. Reeves's Muntjac
      3. Golden Pheasant
      4. Raccoon Dog
      5. Great White Pelican
      6. Golden Snub-Nosed Monkey
      7. Rabbit (any)
    • Aviary:
      1. Snowy Owl
      2. Eurasian Eagle Owl
      3. Common Raven
      4. Peregrine Falcon
      5. Golden Eagle
      6. Bearded Vulture
      7. Barn Owl
    • Exhibit:
      1. Legless Lizard
      2. Chinese Crocodile Lizard
      3. Atlas Moth
      4. Giant Salamander
      5. Leopard Gecko
      6. Common Toad
      7. Eurasian Adder
    • Honorable Mentions:
      • Habitat: Yellow Throated Marten, Eurasian River Otter, Asian Golden Cat, EBB, Barbary Macaque, Lady Amherst's Pheasant, Silver Pheasant, Mallard Duck, Serow, Pere David's Deer, Chiru, Chinese Alligator, Arabian Oryx, Aoudad, Tahr, Bustard, Red Squirrel, Pine Marten
      • Aviary: Stellar's Sea Eagle, Egyptian Vulture, Hoopoe
  • Afrotropical
    • Habitat:
      1. Serval
      2. Grey Crowned Crane
      3. Guereza
      4. Great White Pelican
      5. White Faced Whistling Duck
      6. Greater Kudu
      7. De Brazza's Guenon
    • Aviary:
      1. Ruppel's Griffon Vulture
      2. African Grey Parrot
      3. Great Blue Turaco
      4. Red Billed Hornbill
      5. Buffalo Weaver
      6. Oxpecker
      7. Rose Ringed Parakeet
    • Exhibit:
      1. Panther Chameleon
      2. Leaf-tailed Gecko
      3. Pancake Tortoise
      4. Black Mamba
      5. Giant Toad
      6. Rainbow Agama
      7. African Rock Python
    • Honorable Mentions:
      • Habitat: Wolf's Guenon, Schmidt's Red-Tailed Monkey, Patas Monkey, Aye-aye, Gelada, Secretary Bird, Saddle Billed Stork, Southern Ground Hornbill, Helmeted Guineafowl, Common Eland, Gerenuk, Nile Crocodile, Paradise Crane, White Stork, Sacred Ibis, Black Backed Jackal, Radiated Tortoise, Hyrax, Springhare
      • Aviary: Lovebirds, Bee Eater
      • Exhibit: Tomato Frog
  • Antarctica
    • Habitat:
      1. Rockhopper Penguin
      2. Leopard Seal
      3. Brown Fur Seal
      4. Adelie Penguin
  • Oceania
    • Habitat: Nene
    • Aviary: Kea, Kakao (not flying, but with other parrots)
    • Exhibit: Tuatara
  • Domestic:
    • Habitat:
      1. Watusi Cattle
      2. Rabbit
      3. Yak
      4. Shetland Pony
      5. Clydesdale Horse
      6. Chinese Goose
      7. Muscovy Duck
    • Disclaimer: I want the wild version of ducks and turkeys a bit more than the domestic variants.
 
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And lastly, to bring it all together, what are all of the species I've seen most often that aren't in the game?

17: North American river otter
13: North American black bear
12: common eland, white-tailed deer
10: grey-crowned crane, scarlet ibis

Aside from a few aviary birds (bald eagle, king vulture, blue-and-gold macaw, and laughing kookaburra), that's every single species that hits double digits for me! So in short, these are objectively the six most important species they could add to the game. Thank you.
What about bobcats/Canadian lynxes? How often did you see them, or were they lumped with Eurasian lynxes?
 
The more i think about it the more i realize what i really want for the next pack.
And this might be a hot take but honestly its another SA pack as the americas pack didnt really tick of any of the animals i really wanted (aside from the saki filling my wish for a nw monkey)
Coati and mara im still painfully missing, another monkey would also be more than welcome. And there are so many birds that could keep the flamingo company like the ibis, spoonbill, screamer and whistling and muscovy duck.
 
The more i think about it the more i realize what i really want for the next pack.
And this might be a hot take but honestly its another SA pack as the americas pack didnt really tick of any of the animals i really wanted (aside from the saki filling my wish for a nw monkey)
Coati and mara im still painfully missing, another monkey would also be more than welcome. And there are so many birds that could keep the flamingo company like the ibis, spoonbill, screamer and whistling and muscovy duck.
Same. I really have no excitement about África or Asia again outside of a couple of animals.
 
Also i think a rainforest animal pack would still be cool.

Take coati as the headliner, throw in another SA animal or two like squirrel monkey and red footed tortoise. Lowland anoa and red duiker as the obligartory ungulates. Nile croc as another simple animal and then you have one spot left for whatever, an old world monkey like the guereza maybe, a bird, or more likely the fishing cat. Would be a decent pack without anything crazy really
 
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