ED and the Oculus Rift Developers Kit 2 (DK2) Discussion Thread

Just a funny observation that now that I've ditched my Cobra for an Asp, my Rift play has gotten quite a bit better. The large amount of glass in the Asp's bubble versus the Cobra's cockpit has increased my framerate while out in space, making for a smoother experience. Nice side effect :)

I`m playing with an Eagle cause I can read better in that tiny cockpit. Menus are closer to your view and letters has better definition, try it and you will see.
 
I believe I currently run demos with direct mode on my rift at 75 Hz (they show as 75 fps) and the mirror image runs on my PC monitor at 60 Hz fine - so I'm guessing it's the same principle. Someone more technical may correct me ;)

That's correct the game runs at 75fps on both.
One displays 75fps at 75hz and the other displays 75fps at 60hz.
You don't need to have a 75hz screen to run 75fps. You just need a 75hz screen to see the benefits of 75fps.
 
I crossed the Rubicon as well - it's gonna be a fun Xmas :D

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01/07/2014 @ 09:42 PDT - Baton
01/07/2014 @ 16:12 PDT - Anthony Jones
04/07/2014 @ 02:54 PDT - Juniper
11/07/2014 @ 02:00 PDT - brumster
16/07/2014 @ 14:31 PDT - CMDR Pham Nuwen

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27/07/2014 @ 01:54 PDT - Mark D
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28/08/2014 @ 02:07 PDT - Jim Chapman / CMDR Turnip
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19/09/2014 @ 08.12 PDT - cmdr-brancki/ stephen427
20/09/2014 @ 11.48 PDT - Jericho
21/09/2014 @ 20:32 PDT - STABB666
22/10/2014 @ 12:19 PDT - Greebie / CMDR Nekkros
24/10/2014 @ 04:45 PDT - Zargor
 
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Why CMDRs want to run in DIRECT MODE?

Im not sure either but some people have trubble setting up the oculus as an external display correctly so it works in extended mode on the computer. While Direct mode is more userfriendly and doesn't require any fiddeling with the oculus settings, it's supposed to "just work". But I see no reason for it if you have extended mode running perfectly already.
 
Why CMDRs want to run in DIRECT MODE?

Because Direct Mode is a low-level driver that goes straight to the Rift, bypassing Windows almost entirely. It "knows" about the Rift implicitly and explicitly, and therefore you "should" get better performance.

Extended mode is just Windows treating the Rift like a second monitor, which is fine, but relatively resource heavy by comparison.
 
Because Direct Mode is a low-level driver that goes straight to the Rift, bypassing Windows almost entirely. It "knows" about the Rift implicitly and explicitly, and therefore you "should" get better performance.

Extended mode is just Windows treating the Rift like a second monitor, which is fine, but relatively resource heavy by comparison.

Correct... except the reality is the opposite unfortunately. Most demos I've tried which have both modes say to use Extended for better performance. A shame, and hopefully it will change over time, but unfortunately the state of things right now (although not tried 0.4.3).

As for ED, I'm yet to see any demo/game allow the setting of Direct or Extended, they are always separate binaries. That might be for usability, but I'm worried it's to do with the static rift lib from the SDK. If I'm right, ED would need 2 binaries to support a choice of extended and direct.
 
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mmmm, I think all games work out of Windows, it will always be CPU-GPU-RAM-EXTRA MONITOR, Windows if he wants, will always do he's stuff in the background. I think is more easy e compatibility with a operating system that is ONE, than working with different system configurations.

My first problem with the DK2 was just that stupid,but useful, option of enabling the RIFT on the GPUCARD management program.
Free to be recalled it's all IMHO.
 
Only game I have had a good experience in Direct mode has been iRacing. Seems much smoother in direct than in extended. ED is horrible in direct at the moment
 
Correct... except the reality is the opposite unfortunately. Most demos I've tried which have both modes say to use Extended for better performance. A shame, and hopefully it will change over time, but unfortunately the state of things right now (although not tried 0.4.3).

As for ED, I'm yet to see any demo/game allow the setting of Direct or Extended, they are always separate binaries. That might be for usability, but I'm worried it's to do with the static rift lib from the SDK. If I'm right, ED would need 2 binaries to support a choice of extended and direct.

Hence why I quoted "should". It rarely seems to work out that way. :(

A good example of using direct mode though is not a game at all - it's MaxVR, a rather excellent movie player for the Rift.

Good point about the static libs. I hadn't considered that.
 
Correct... except the reality is the opposite unfortunately. Most demos I've tried which have both modes say to use Extended for better performance. A shame, and hopefully it will change over time, but unfortunately the state of things right now (although not tried 0.4.3).

As for ED, I'm yet to see any demo/game allow the setting of Direct or Extended, they are always separate binaries. That might be for usability, but I'm worried it's to do with the static rift lib from the SDK. If I'm right, ED would need 2 binaries to support a choice of extended and direct.

That's mainly an issue is with the integration of the SDK into the game/whatever.
I believe this fault may lay with the SDK (or did, 0.4.3 may resolve that issue).
I vaguely remember one of the FD team saying this and I've heard the same from other devs.

Extended is basically legacy support that was provided so that things that don't work on Direct mode have an option.
Direct mode is what every VR developer should be aiming for eventually once all the kinks have been worked out.
From a user experience Direct mode is a lot easier to setup, doesn't require the faff that's required for extended and has several technical benefits that make it the preferred option out of the two.

I have a couple of bits of software that work in Direct and extended and in all cases direct is better than extended (Titans of space pre 0.4.3 was a great example).

E: D does work in direct mode with 0.4.3 just it seems to half the frame rate from 75 to 37.5.
If Beta 3 corrects this it will be interesting to see what it's like compared to extended.
 
I'm one of the ones that STILL can't get the rift to work in extended desktop mode so I have to use direct to rift... I hope they don't break it in beta 3....
 
Because Direct Mode is a low-level driver that goes straight to the Rift, bypassing Windows almost entirely. It "knows" about the Rift implicitly and explicitly, and therefore you "should" get better performance.

Extended mode is just Windows treating the Rift like a second monitor, which is fine, but relatively resource heavy by comparison.

This .....😀
 
Hi NoiseCrime, I am pleased you are happy with your new MSI GTX970 - same card as mine :)

I think its partly caused by all the variables during testing. IMHO one of the biggest variables is what people consider playability is very subjective.

So in solo, sat in a hanger, with an Eagle I get roughly :
Graphics preset low = 75 fps (rock solid)
Graphics preset mid = 63 fps
Graphics preset high = 56 fps

As you mentioned I can choose high and then turn down some options. I find rather than rock solid 75 fps it does hit 75 fps but a lot more 'floaty'. Some people don't mind that but at the moment personally I am happy playing with preset low, I guess there is no right or wrong. Hopefully as ED optimises and / or Rift direct mode works well - we can have high with rock solid 75 fps ;)

Hi Mark,

Yeah the MSI GTX970 seems pretty good, really want to do some benchmarking but first I need to set up the PC properly, partitioning and stuff and sadly i'm too busy with real-life stuff.

I agree with 'playability' being subjective, that is something which will be hard to get away from. Again I see the occasional post here from people describing their experiences and I can't help but feel that for some reason their DK2 or system can't be set up correctly as its so different to my own experience. In some of these cases their may well be a single incorrect setting somewhere either in the DK2 or Elite (for example I messed around with the separation value in the graphic options, before realising it was meant to be controlled by the dk2 and set to match your IPD, messing with it caused chromatic aberration and a less than optimal quality), for others though I suspect it is down to personnel preference and expectations.

Having said that even your own stats don't match with my own, though i'm guessing when you say 'high' you mean literally applying that setting and not changing anything? That would explain the drop to 56 fps, where as I seem to get 75 fps without AO/AA and shadows on low, but with DSR x2 (though it can drop to 65 on occasions). In addition to this you then have different ships, different space stations, different things happening in space stations ( saw a ship jam yesterday with three all trying to dock/leave at the same time ;) ). Its why I've felt Frontier really should put some effort into making a benchmark test scene, something that can be repeated accurately and used to judge the relative merits between systems, graphic options, ships, stations etc. It would also mean the game would be likely used for benchmarking on websites giving more exposure to it in the future.

Ultimately I think all we can do in terms of bench marking is to use as similar game set ups as possible, report actual fps and accept that unless its easily hitting 75 fps, what one person might count as acceptable may not be to someone else, but at least we'll have actual numbers to compare.

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I'm one of the ones that STILL can't get the rift to work in extended desktop mode so I have to use direct to rift... I hope they don't break it in beta 3....

At the risk of repeating yourself, care to outline what the problem is specifically and what you've tried?

I know on my old PC I had to fiddle around quite a bit to make it work. I think from memory in the end I actually went and changed various options in the custom/config of ED as I couldn't get it to work via in game UI. On my new PC I had none of those problems, instead I couldn't get it too even see the rift as a device for longest time and when I did, I don't know what I actually did to make it work, other than pulling leads out, putting them back in or restarting the machine.

I guess one thing to clarify is can you get the rift working in extended mode with other games?
 
At the risk of repeating yourself, care to outline what the problem is specifically and what you've tried?

I guess one thing to clarify is can you get the rift working in extended mode with other games?

Always happy to discuss it in case someone comes up with a solution :)

When in extended mode, the desktop displays on the rift OK but NOTHING can detect the rift, including the OCU like this:

OCU not detecting Rift in Extend mode.jpg

And when you go into the graphics config of ED there are no Rift options.

Direct mode works fine, and from support @ Oculus they say that the operating difference is only in software - no hardware difference in operation.

If I watch the oculus processes in tcpview, I can see an initial handshake between the OCU and the service, but nothing else gets transmitted.

I have eliminated HDMI and USB cables, and ensured it is only using USB 2.0 - no difference
I have stopped every process and service apart from Windows ones - no difference.
I have opened the firewall, and even switched it off - no difference.

Anything else spring to mind? I may have tried it but forgotten :)
 
Anything else spring to mind? I may have tried it but forgotten :)

Hi mate,

This is where my degree in the bleeding obvious comes in handy - but for the oculus config util not to see your HMD is ....... 'VERY bad' ;)

On a more serious note, have you tested it with another PC/laptop?

M


Ps just FYI your oculus config util actually shows a different message to mine. Yours says "(No HMD detected)" mine says "No Device Attached". Maybe just an old image you saved?
 
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Nah, just made that image :) Oculus are sure it's a software problem.

None of my 5 laptops have DVi or HMDI apart from my macbook - which is on too low a version of OSX to work with oculus :/

No-one I know locally has a PC...
 
None of my 5 laptops have DVi or HMDI apart from my macbook - which is on too low a version of OSX to work with oculus :/

I know its a pain but you could bootcamp the mac if that would give you a sense of well-being about it not being hardware.

Also, another stupid question. Are you using the supplied DC power adaptor?
 
No-one I know locally has a PC...

That's a shame, Oculus are the experts and 99% likely to be right (especially with direct mode working). It's just hardware is normally a quick and easy way to narrow down any problem. On 'planet long shot' extended mode might need more power which your PSU can't provide, or an HMD hardware compent for that mode is broken etc.

I suspect the different message is a red herring but in the oculus config util mine says :
Version 1.5 (SDK 0.4.3)
Display driver version 1.1.9.0
Camera version 0.0.1.7
Hopefully in direct mode yours says the above and under PIC of rift - firmware 2.12?
 
Ps just FYI your oculus config util actually shows a different message to mine. Yours says "(No HMD detected)" mine says "No Device Attached". Maybe just an old image you saved?

Also, another stupid question. Are you using the supplied DC power adaptor?

A timely reminder about the PSU, I unplugged it this morning to plug my laptop in :)
You were partially right Mark :p

OCU not detecting Rift in Extend mode2.jpg

Still doesn't work though...

View attachment 354
 
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