ED Background Simulation - Large Faction Influence Swing Mechanics
- Thread starter anonymousanarchist123
- Start date
on beta, its way less than i expected from other tests on live. jmanis' system (sorry 
was around 1000 tonnes of nerve agents at almost 3000 loss. and its also 3% but 700mil pop!
i continue another run tomorrow on beta. even a full cargo hold, when i find enough cargo to trade with this time.
was around 1000 tonnes of nerve agents at almost 3000 loss. and its also 3% but 700mil pop!i continue another run tomorrow on beta. even a full cargo hold, when i find enough cargo to trade with this time.
The factors I see are separate systems and one ton trades (buy and sell) with a possibility of the profit/loss margin having weight.
I can see the need for trading to have some weight, and the profit margin having an effect but perhaps its having an unintended effect of multiplying or magnifying it per transaction.
Perhaps the fix would be to somehow count the profit/loss of the owned properties to affect the influence and not count the transactions?
I can see the need for trading to have some weight, and the profit margin having an effect but perhaps its having an unintended effect of multiplying or magnifying it per transaction.
Perhaps the fix would be to somehow count the profit/loss of the owned properties to affect the influence and not count the transactions?
It still makes no sense for negative trading to affect the station you are selling too however, In addition to the fact that Black Market spawning factions get actively punished for their Black Markets which would be their primary source of money production for example.
i actually could live with a -inf effect for transactions with a loss, if it wouldn#t be possible to game that system by 1T trade. if somebody wants to spend 4,5-6,5 hours flying back and forth to dock, sell his load, and back to get 40 transactions and a -2,8% influence effect (approx -> 280-400 minutes), i think that's okay.
but getting 40 transactions and that loss by buying and selling 1t at a time while docked (most probably with a macro) is nothing what i want to see possible in this game.
yeah, selling something to a station at a loss should indeed hurt them, even put them in bust but... if there is no demand of a certain commodity, you shouldnt be able to sell it at all. what i did in my tests was bringing in stuff like nerve agents. almost no station has demand for that, thus my losses are quite high. or thorium for that matter.
if the station wouldnt accept commodities it doesnt have demand for, the losses wouldnt hurt as much.
- - - Updated - - -
then again, reading that again, the station and it owner should actually only benefit from exporting stuff rather than imports...
Even though a station doesn't have a demand, you can still make a profit for these items. Mined material is pure profit, so is legal salvage. I'm often selling cheap ores to a station for low prices. Escape pods are now often legal salvage, but I don't recall seeing a demand for them in a station.
Tho I agree with the Black Market part, I still think we need that mechanic for loss=negative influence.
I agree with the 1t part, but I don't think you would be required to play one aspect for 6 hours for that level or return.
An idea came to me regarding this; what if a station could only get positive influence from exports, but imports at a loss caused negative influence? Curbing the effect generated in half basically.
Sorry, can you explain? Factions do gain influence from exports (i.e. buying from them) and can only lose influence from imports (i.e. selling to them at a loss, or selling for profit at a black market).
Did you instead mean something to do with the listed top 3 imports/exports?
Last edited:
More or less?
The idea is a change to limit the influence effect, but still allow trading to affect factions controlling stations.
Buying the exports then selling them to another system counts as an influence gain.
Selling to the market at a profit does not.
However, selling to the market with an item from another system at a loss causes an influence loss for the station owner.
That way I would think you can cut the compounding effects generated by trade influencing the BGS.
Just have it count by the profit margin for the day not the trade counts to bypass the 1t gimmick.
Last edited:
Ok well this I agree with, but removing the influence gain for normal, profitable sale (the only change to current you seem to be suggesting) doesn't seem warranted if the 1t part is removed.
Last edited:
Indeed. As a once-exclusive trader I'm also trying to consider what such changes might do to typical ambient trade meccas, in addition to the effect on deliberate BGS manipulation.
If value purchased is the only influence lever, then owners of popular supplies of high value commodities become overpowered "permanent expansion" type factions.
If value purchased is the only influence lever, then owners of popular supplies of high value commodities become overpowered "permanent expansion" type factions.
Last edited:
Oh, and my test from last night finally showed -profit/-influence unit trading working, so that's settled for me though I'll have to compare with bulk-sale as well.
Population 80026
No other traffic when checked before the test and again today.
400 tons sold 1 at a time for -1252/ton.
Target faction start influence: 36.3 (other factions: 36.3, 24.1, 1.7, 1.6)
Target faction final influence: 31.7 (others: 38.9, 25.8, 1.8, 1.7)
Interesting that the lost influence was not evenly dispersed, but weighted according to influence level. (Total loss: 4.6 Others gained: 2.6, 1.7, 0.1, 0.1 = 4.5%, assuming rounding error)
Population 80026
No other traffic when checked before the test and again today.
400 tons sold 1 at a time for -1252/ton.
Target faction start influence: 36.3 (other factions: 36.3, 24.1, 1.7, 1.6)
Target faction final influence: 31.7 (others: 38.9, 25.8, 1.8, 1.7)
Interesting that the lost influence was not evenly dispersed, but weighted according to influence level. (Total loss: 4.6 Others gained: 2.6, 1.7, 0.1, 0.1 = 4.5%, assuming rounding error)
Last edited:
So it is indeed still there, just tweaked a bit to require purchase and sale.
In the end I perhaps have a bit of a mixed opinion on it. I don't mind the whole expansion machine idea - it presents a unique problem that even my current faction deals with frequently because of a seemingly popular trade route and makes it engaging - but I don't like the idea of it being used as an easy swing mechanic.
It should show the effect of many pilots doing something but it shouldn't be something one pilot can do alone.
In the end I perhaps have a bit of a mixed opinion on it. I don't mind the whole expansion machine idea - it presents a unique problem that even my current faction deals with frequently because of a seemingly popular trade route and makes it engaging - but I don't like the idea of it being used as an easy swing mechanic.
It should show the effect of many pilots doing something but it shouldn't be something one pilot can do alone.
The whole reason this thread exists is to get peoples atention and get FD to FIX this problem, i dont think anybody here likes the fact that the BGS has such idiotic mechanics.
This has been in the game since 2.0 as far as i am aware of wich is already almost a year now, but i suspect it has been there since the game launched.
Yes they tweaked and tried to change some details hoping players would think it got fixed, but the truth is that any influence changes for minor factions always have been transaction based, it is in the foundation of the BGS.
Since 2.1 faction States (Boom, Bust, etc) have a much higher impact on how much certain activities affect the influence, combine that with the removal of influence cap that was present between 2.0 and 2.1 and the results are devastating using the methods mentioned here.
What i mean with that is,
Boom= positive trade counts double, Negative and Black market count half.
Bust = positve trade counts half , Negative and Black market count double.
And remember, Negative and Black market Cause Bust really quickly.
Also during War or Civil war the only thing that affects the influence are the Number of combat bonds handed in, regardless of Cr. Value, meaning 10 combat bonds of 1000cr have 10x the effect as 1 combat bond worth 1mill cr.
Now this would be easy to fix imo, as stated in the OP, if the transaction server would register lets say 1 transaction of 600t to the maket as 600 transactions and the same
This part I'm not seeing at all. The commodities were purchased elsewhere (the worst price i could find, for the worst return) in bulk. Origin doesn't appear to matter.
Last edited:
I dont think anybody here likes the fact these "methods" are in the game, afterall the whole purpose of this thread is to make ppl aware they exist and hopefully force FD to fix and maybe even improve the whole BGS.
Imo i think it could be a easy fix as stated in the OP, since every influence change is transaction based just make the server recocnize bulk transactions such as trading, exp data, combat bonds and bounties as the amount they really represent. Ex. 600t trading in one transaction the server would count 600 transactions making the methods here explained useless, of course some actions would have to be balanced so they dont have the same amount of effect as they do now.
Also i like the idea of Exporting benefiting the factions rather than Importing, just makes more sense.
thanks for testing and sharing.
so it even works again without 1T purchase again?
Anyone checked if buying from a different station in the same system works, or really have to be a different system?