Elite:Dangerous for Linux?

[VictorT]

Meanwhile,

Another opportunity to add to the 3500+ games available for Linux (if you only count Steam)(ha ha, "no developer supprt", funny stuff!), There's a(nother) rather famous dude looking for a game to port for Linux, https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...games-to-port-to-linux-pay-not-required.10195

It's not Feral Interactive this time, but I don't care who ports it, Frontier should consider having it ported for them.

-m

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Meanwhile,

Another opportunity to add to the 3500+ games available for Linux (if you only count Steam)(ha ha, "no developer supprt", funny stuff!), There's a(nother) rather famous dude looking for a game to port for Linux, https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...games-to-port-to-linux-pay-not-required.10195

It's not Feral Interactive this time, but I don't care who ports it, Frontier should consider having it ported for them.

-m

For long time I have speculated for either Kickstarter for Linux port, or community paid industry trusted porters to do this port. However, it most likely is not possible due of FD protecting their IP especially their engine technologies. Also they improve game almost constantly with each release, so it would require non-stop hand holding I doubt community paid porters would be ok with - and FD would be ok with letting not trusted Linux client on their servers.

I think strongest possibility is good show of SteamOS and Linux gaming - and campaign for Kickstarter or crowdfunding campaign for Linux port. FD name potential money required to port to Linux and community respond.

I personally think while first outing of Steam Machines were a meh attempt from vendor side - although Dell Steam Machine was awesome looking - Valve still keep working on SteamOS and it seems they are moving in AMD based direction - which makes sense if you want to do PC consoles which are a) cheap and b) can run AAA titles reliably well.

My worry of such scenario is a) lot of Linux gamers who are active online are quite vocal about games "with not enough content" and usually are not ready to pay more than 20€, so they will roadblock lot of crowd iniciatives to get Linux port going b) FD will do it only if we can reliably cover and also we will convince support costs are controllable.

It is certainly something that can be done though. All FD really needs is to get some trusted guy who is also Linux advocate and excellent Linux hacker. If he/she can convince FD even consider it internally first - do hack-ish port of MacOS version most likely is very doable - then we can talk about it.

edit: If we are looking for silver lining - every release/expansion upon base game makes any theoretical Linux port more functional and thus more desirable at sales. So it is not like time is working against us there...it depends.

 

[shadragon]

Meanwhile,

Another opportunity to add to the 3500+ games available for Linux (if you only count Steam)(ha ha, "no developer supprt", funny stuff!), There's a(nother) rather famous dude looking for a game to port for Linux, https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...games-to-port-to-linux-pay-not-required.10195

It's not Feral Interactive this time, but I don't care who ports it, Frontier should consider having it ported for them.

-m

I just tweeted him. Feel free to add your name to the list.

https://twitter.com/icculus

 

[lenna]

If we are talking OS updates (which is off-topic)...

I manage IT for an organisation with over 1000 employees and 60% of our VMs are Linux-based. When it comes to monthly updates, our Linux servers are a breeze as downtime is minimal, predictable and easy, however Window-based servers are a crazy pain in the backside.

Not a comparable situation to a WHITE BOX desktop installation of Linux... 1st you are talking about VMs which are largely a static problem free configuration (most of the time... there are some exceptions)... 2nd you are talking about an Enterprise environment... as for Windows updates bricking a VM... I have never heard of that happening at all. Windows updates have rarely been problematic for me and on VMs I would expect them to be not problematic at all - and I have used both Windows and Linux in VMs.

When looking at the issues from an Enterprise environment setting it is a TOTALLY different ball game... we are not talking about an Enterprise environment but nominal home/gaming PC environments which are extremely diverse environments on the whole.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

When looking at the issues from an Enterprise environment setting it is a TOTALLY different ball game... we are not talking about an Enterprise environment but nominal home/gaming PC environments which are extremely diverse environments on the whole.

They aren't.

There's reason why Chrome books and iPads are extremely popular es general computing devices.

And ironically, that's why people pick up consoles too - and that's why Valve wants to do SteamOS and Steam Machine in first place.

Linux with GNOME Shell is *perfect* for casual user. Setup all devices they have, show how to upload photos and you are set.

As I said, power user will *never* migrate and they should be never even bothered with.

 

[lenna]

They aren't.

There's reason why Chrome books and iPads are extremely popular es general computing devices.

And ironically, that's why people pick up consoles too - and that's why Valve wants to do SteamOS and Steam Machine in first place.

Linux with GNOME Shell is *perfect* for casual user. Setup all devices they have, show how to upload photos and you are set.

As I said, power user will *never* migrate and they should be never even bothered with.

You are talking about BLACK BOX systems there, not proper WHITE BOX gaming PCs which is the main environment for medium-high/high end 3D gaming like ED.

Those bringing up the BLACK BOX cases are not making the argument any more solid, they are just making fools of themselves IMO.

BTW - Your claim about Power Users never migrating is complete and utter nonsense (Linux when configured properly can have much lower overheads and offer higher performance when compared with the Windows environment) - I am a Power User myself and would love to go back to running Linux as my main OS at home but there are several factors preventing it and until the hardware manufacturer support on the drivers and utilities front is on par with Windows (or at least up to scratch in the areas I need it to be) it probably will never happen (unfortunately - I have no wish to add fuel to Microsoft's Windows Cloud).

My comments were primarily targeted at those claiming Linux in general is a viable consumer ready OS - no it is not, there are however consumer friendly devices that run Linux (or other UNIX) under the hood but such devices are not the mainstay Linux environment and not the main environment(s) under consideration when considering development for games on Linux.

 

[GraXXoR]

oh yea. After doing some more digging, I stand corrected. This is addressed in a few places.

Well I guess I'm off to pledge more then.

^_^

I wouldn’t waste my money if I were you, any extra money spent on this game is just going to end up on the development budget of their third franchise.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

You are talking about BLACK BOX systems there, not proper WHITE BOX gaming PCs which is the main environment for medium-high/high end 3D gaming like ED.

Those bringing up the BLACK BOX cases are not making the argument any more solid, they are just making fools of themselves IMO.

BTW - Your claim about Power Users never migrating is complete and utter nonsense (Linux when configured properly can have much lower overheads and offer higher performance when compared with the Windows environment) - I am a Power User myself and would love to go back to running Linux as my main OS at home but there are several factors preventing it and until the hardware manufacturer support on the drivers and utilities front is on par with Windows (or at least up to scratch in the areas I need it to be) it probably will never happen (unfortunately - I have no wish to add fuel to Microsoft's Windows Cloud).

My comments were primarily targeted at those claiming Linux in general is a viable consumer ready OS - no it is not, there are however consumer friendly devices that run Linux (or other UNIX) under the hood but such devices are not the mainstay Linux environment and not the main environment(s) under consideration when considering development for games on Linux.

What's the name of that river in Egypt???

Changing the goal posts won't help your popularity. Either you are talking about consumer ready OS, or you are not. Linux is ready... In fact, in some cases, linux is way above windows - sound processing, have you ever tried using Jack - Brilliant architecture... But that's not installed on every linux installation because it requires the sort of expertise you might find in putting a white box together...

If you can't do the research and get the right components with support for the hardware, software (or OS) you want to run, then you are only playing at being a PC builder and are not serious. Would you buy a time machine to back up your PC??? Duh!!! So why would you buy a graphics card that did not support your chosen OS? Saying that every card out there does not support linux and therefore it is not ready for prime time is a like saying you wouldn't sell diesel at your petrol station "because not all cars support it!"

Not a comparable situation to a WHITE BOX desktop installation of Linux... 1st you are talking about VMs which are largely a static problem free configuration (most of the time... there are some exceptions)... 2nd you are talking about an Enterprise environment... as for Windows updates bricking a VM... I have never heard of that happening at all. Windows updates have rarely been problematic for me and on VMs I would expect them to be not problematic at all - and I have used both Windows and Linux in VMs.


When looking at the issues from an Enterprise environment setting it is a TOTALLY different ball game... we are not talking about an Enterprise environment but nominal home/gaming PC environments which are extremely diverse environments on the whole.

You want examples of updates killing VMs? You don't really have to look too far back. Just look at how many updates get pulled just days after release to get re-patched because they put servers, VMs and all, in to a reboot loop... Or the ones that are required to connect to WSUS, but are issued as patches to WSUS but not streamlined in to the distributed disk images... We used to automatically approve updates - today we wait until all the reports of bricked servers and PCs have come out before approving updates...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I put together white box (in fact it was black sexy case as primary reason for it was sound recording *and* ED) and installed Fedora Linux...three years ago. Never wasted more than 20 mins to set it up.

Similar setup for Windows takes about 1 hour minimum. 3 hours if you want to make it any usable.

Seriously, man, you don't need to justify your choice to stick with Windows. There are plenty of legit reasons to do so - software choices, having to do Windows support for relatives...it's all understandable. Just stop trash talk Linux because you just dig your hole deeper and deeper.

Linux is quite ready for mainstream. Just mainstream shows when people complain about Windows, they aren't really keen to change their motor skills and learn something new. Computers have this strange addiction effect on users. We are used to easy ways to do our work, and idea we have to re-learn something - even if that makes us way more effective - frighten us at first instance. If you get over that feeling, and try something, you can see what's what. I learned vi just few years ago. It is still not my favorite editor, but I understand appeal and I can work with it when required. Considering how easy to use and similar Unity, GNOME Shell are with Windows, and how huge majority of devices just work under Linux, I don't see any reason Linux can't be seen as ready for desktop.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

I put together white box (in fact it was black sexy case as primary reason for it was sound recording *and* ED) and installed Fedora Linux...three years ago. Never wasted more than 20 mins to set it up.

Similar setup for Windows takes about 1 hour minimum. 3 hours if you want to make it any usable.

Seriously, man, you don't need to justify your choice to stick with Windows. There are plenty of legit reasons to do so - software choices, having to do Windows support for relatives...it's all understandable. Just stop trash talk Linux because you just dig your hole deeper and deeper.

Linux is quite ready for mainstream. Just mainstream shows when people complain about Windows, they aren't really keen to change their motor skills and learn something new. Computers have this strange addiction effect on users. We are used to easy ways to do our work, and idea we have to re-learn something - even if that makes us way more effective - frighten us at first instance. If you get over that feeling, and try something, you can see what's what. I learned vi just few years ago. It is still not my favorite editor, but I understand appeal and I can work with it when required. Considering how easy to use and similar Unity, GNOME Shell are with Windows, and how huge majority of devices just work under Linux, I don't see any reason Linux can't be seen as ready for desktop.

There, fixed it for you...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

There, fixed it for you...

Ohh shmucks, missed that typo (facepalm)

 

[Irie 3030]

YES! gimme E: D for Linux and i don't see many reasons to launch my windows machine anymore... still a few though...

also, IF we ever get a Linux compatible version, please make sure we can transfer our CMDRs over from windows because duh soo much time and effort

 

[shadragon]

YES! gimme E: D for Linux and i don't see many reasons to launch my windows machine anymore... still a few though...

also, IF we ever get a Linux compatible version, please make sure we can transfer our CMDRs over from windows because duh soo much time and effort

If zero'ing all three of my accounts was the price I had to pay to swap over to Linux, I would do it happily.

However, I see no technical reason why Linux / PC could not share the same instances. Consoles have other manufacturer infrastructure in the way (and dated outlooks on actually sharing with others) where Linux would be a native install direct through Frontier.

 

[danteuk]

CMDRS data is server side so to move to Linux 'should' just be a question of coping you config files ( for key bindings / custom hud colours ).

I think all efforts need to focus on getting the 64bit of wine working.

I'm back to the major pain in the rear of trying to get .NET working, ie I just get this:
err:module:import_dll Library mscoree.dll (which is needed by L"C:\\windows\\Microsoft.NET\\Framework\\v4.0.30319\\mscorsvw.exe") not found
err:module:LdrInitializeThunk Main exe initialization for L"C:\\windows\\Microsoft.NET\\Framework\\v4.0.30319\\mscorsvw.exe" failed, status c0000135
err:servicerocess_send_command service protocol error - failed to write pipe!
fixme:service:scmdatabase_autostart_services Auto-start service L"clr_optimization_v4.0.30319_32" failed to start: 1053
err:module:import_dll Library MSVCR120_CLR0400.dll (which is needed by L"C:\\windows\\Microsoft.NET\\Framework64\\v4.0.30319\\mscorsvw.exe") not found
err:module:import_dll Library mscoree.dll (which is needed by L"C:\\windows\\Microsoft.NET\\Framework64\\v4.0.30319\\mscorsvw.exe") not found
err:module:LdrInitializeThunk Main exe initialization for L"C:\\windows\\Microsoft.NET\\Framework64\\v4.0.30319\\mscorsvw.exe" failed, status c0000135
err:servicerocess_send_command service protocol error - failed to write pipe!
fixme:service:scmdatabase_autostart_services Auto-start service L"clr_optimization_v4.0.30319_64" failed to start: 1053
err:module:import_dll Library mscoree.dll (which is needed by L"C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Frontier\\EDLaunch\\EDLaunch.exe") not found
err:module:LdrInitializeThunk Main exe initialization for L"C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Frontier\\EDLaunch\\EDLaunch.exe" failed, status c0000135

It's like it hasn't got a clue if it's suppose to be 64 or 32bit - the dll it can't load exists in both system32 ( 64bit version ) and syswow64( 32bit version ) - Yes Microsoft is that "£$"""%$@~ stupid and put all the 64bit binaries into the old system32 folder and put 32bit version of the binaries in the syswow64 folder!!!

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

CMDRS data is server side so to move to Linux 'should' just be a question of coping you config files ( for key bindings / custom hud colours ).

I think all efforts need to focus on getting the 64bit of wine working.

I'm back to the major pain in the rear of trying to get .NET working, ie I just get this:
err:module:import_dll Library mscoree.dll (which is needed by L"C:\\windows\\Microsoft.NET\\Framework\\v4.0.30319\\mscorsvw.exe") not found
err:module:LdrInitializeThunk Main exe initialization for L"C:\\windows\\Microsoft.NET\\Framework\\v4.0.30319\\mscorsvw.exe" failed, status c0000135
err:servicerocess_send_command service protocol error - failed to write pipe!
fixme:service:scmdatabase_autostart_services Auto-start service L"clr_optimization_v4.0.30319_32" failed to start: 1053
err:module:import_dll Library MSVCR120_CLR0400.dll (which is needed by L"C:\\windows\\Microsoft.NET\\Framework64\\v4.0.30319\\mscorsvw.exe") not found
err:module:import_dll Library mscoree.dll (which is needed by L"C:\\windows\\Microsoft.NET\\Framework64\\v4.0.30319\\mscorsvw.exe") not found
err:module:LdrInitializeThunk Main exe initialization for L"C:\\windows\\Microsoft.NET\\Framework64\\v4.0.30319\\mscorsvw.exe" failed, status c0000135
err:servicerocess_send_command service protocol error - failed to write pipe!
fixme:service:scmdatabase_autostart_services Auto-start service L"clr_optimization_v4.0.30319_64" failed to start: 1053
err:module:import_dll Library mscoree.dll (which is needed by L"C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Frontier\\EDLaunch\\EDLaunch.exe") not found
err:module:LdrInitializeThunk Main exe initialization for L"C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Frontier\\EDLaunch\\EDLaunch.exe" failed, status c0000135

It's like it hasn't got a clue if it's suppose to be 64 or 32bit - the dll it can't load exists in both system32 ( 64bit version ) and syswow64( 32bit version ) - Yes Microsoft is that "£$"""%$@~ stupid and put all the 64bit binaries into the old system32 folder and put 32bit version of the binaries in the syswow64 folder!!!

Hey danteuk, don't struggle, in the end I sorted out Wine 64-bit instructions, follow them here https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ng-Wine-EXPERIMENTAL-NOT-OFFICIALLY-SUPPORTED

See section Installation steps for Wine 64-bit/Elite Dangerous Horizons

1. To initialize Wine 64-bit prefix use WINEPREFIX=~/ed-wine wine64 winecfg. Then choose 'Windows 7' in version list and hit Apply for configuration change
2. To install Winetricks dependencies use WINEPREFIX=~/edwine WINE=/usr/bin/wine64 ./winetricks dotnet452 corefonts quartz vcrun2012
3. Switch back to Windows 7 after winetricks have changed it with WINEPREFIX=~/ed-wine wine64 winecfg to switch Windows version used to Windows 7
4. Install Elite Dangerous installer and launcher WINEPREFIX=~/ed-wine wine64 EliteDangerous-Client-Installer.exe
5. Launch ED launcher (pun intended) WINEPREFIX=~/ed-wine wine64 "c:\Program Files\Frontier\EDLauncher\EDLauncher.exe"

 

[lenna]

I put together white box (in fact it was black sexy case as primary reason for it was sound recording *and* ED) and installed Fedora Linux...three years ago. Never wasted more than 20 mins to set it up.

I never said there were ALWAYS issues but that when there are issues Linux tends to be more problematic with regards to resolution. This can be even more of an issue when working in an off-line environment. I have sufficient skills and knowledge myself to be able to resolve such issues (in most cases) but most people do not. Issue resolution can take many different forms depending on what the problem is but where some things are concerned it can get quite convoluted - more so than with the worst cases with Windows.

I have installed both Windows and Linux in various forms on various platforms over the years and while Linux tends to install quite quickly and easily it is far from a guarantee. Speed of installation with both Linux and Windows can vary dramatically - depends on what you are installing and other factors in both cases.

We can all recount stories of being able to install environment X on platform Y without any issues, but it seems a lot of you are in denial over the problem cases and issue resolution complexity in those cases. I believe those of you claiming Linux (in general) is ready as generic consumer ready OS are not taking into account all the relevant factors.

That aside - the complexities of installing/managing any particular platforms is a bit moot where ED on Linux is concerned. I think those of us (including myself) that prefer the Linux environment would still like to see ED running natively on Linux regardless of other considerations.

Objections to ED being on Linux are illogical and in the same mind set as those that objected to ED being released for XBONE and PS4 IMO.

 

[Dirk Braben]

Okay we have some things to summarize.
* PS4 version rolling out early this year, definitely not a DX12 candidate. This step was decisive in terms of what FD is looking for (staying in the MS ecosystem or going for the bigger console market share of PS4).
* PS4 = PC-compatible hardware and UNIX-like software. We'll see if the implementation moved towards unix-linux or just made enough changes to go from D3D11 to GNM/GNMX. The downside is, this also looks like they did port for another platform-exclusive solution for the money, not for being future proof (the irony is, PS4s can actually benefit from Vulkan and hackers already made a working Linux distro on PS4s).

Hopefully I'll be proven wrong and FD will come up with a Linux+OpenGL/Vulkan version.

Since the latest PC CPUs (Ryzens and Kaby Lakes) are no longer supported by MS on anything less than win10, it's up to jilted windows users to send a clear message:
Should game developers make customers force-buy into windows 10, that was the money meant for games; kiss the money/customers goodbye.

If FD is expecting money for a linux port explicitly, from exiting customers or late adopters, most win7 or linux users would pledge much rather than pay to MS.

This. Every bullet point.

All of my machines, except for one, are now running Debian Linux. The single machine left on Windows 7 is for playing Elite Dangerous. Once I upgrade my CPU, it's gone as I will NOT be to update to Windows 10, rather I switch it over to Linux.
I will not give it to MS for restricting my choices. FD, you rather can have my money for a good Linux port.

 

[shadragon]

I have sufficient skills and knowledge myself to be able to resolve such issues (in most cases) but most people do not.

It's no different with Windows, I assure you.

 

[shadragon]

This. Every bullet point.

All of my machines, except for one, are now running Debian Linux. The single machine left on Windows 7 is for playing Elite Dangerous. Once I upgrade my CPU, it's gone as I will NOT be to update to Windows 10, rather I switch it over to Linux.
I will not give it to MS for restricting my choices. FD, you rather can have my money for a good Linux port.

I'm running the latest version of Kubuntu primarily with Win7 for Elite and I have the same attitude. I don't have a RyZen system ATM as I'm waiting for UnRaid to support it. Then I can run my Win7 install virtually when needed.

 

[lenna]

It's no different with Windows, I assure you.

Having worked with BOTH Windows and Linux, I can tell you for a FACT there is a MASSIVE difference.