Elite:Dangerous for Linux?

[Straker]

The future is not so much about GNU/Linux specifically but it's about Open Source. The days of black-box proprietary software is changing in two major ways - Cloud abstracted services and Open Source. Proprietary software is moving to the haven of the Cloud (I hate that word) and Open Source is the catalyst that is fueling major changes in the way people perform and provide business services. The old ideologies that drove companies like Microsoft are heading for the history books. Although a lot of people (such as myself) will probably always dislike Microsoft for their past practices, they are having to change now in this new environment in an attempt to reinvent themselves (or more precisely - catchup).

Linux gaming isn't so much an alternative to Microsoft Windows gaming - in some ways I believe it's a complete paradigm shift at multiple levels.

I'd love to see E on Linux but I'm not sure the market infrastructure is there just yet. The market needs more time to head down this road its on.

 

[Preterite]

... but then the whole Open Source crowd expects everything for nothing. Linux, in effect, is undermining itself.

This is a common misconception and it's usually promoted by the closed software companies. The reality is somewhat different. Most Linux users will pay a reasonable price for software. The continued support for Steam on Linux, rather than just SteamOS, would seem to confirm this.

On the other hand the real "everything for nothing" crowd is alive an well and pirating commercial software, including games and MS Windows itself.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Most Linux users will pay a reasonable price for software.

Indeed we do. RHEL costs a fair amount on Big Iron Mind you, compared to what some other software companies charge per virtual core* it's not exactly going to break the budget.

* per LPAR, and every slice it uses.

 

[Zazzilas Arden]

DX11 is supposedly coming to Linux sometime this year via WINE thanks to the Codeweavers. All google searches indicate that they started doing so about mid-last year, and that they expect to be done with it sometime this year.

The most recent info I was able to find was from December. So far it seems they've got DX11 along far enough to allow DX11 games to download and actually open...although in most cases thus far, the games are unable to actually run. They still have a bit of magic to work, but they've made great progress in a short amount of time. It is definitely coming along.

When DX11 is finally stable, you won't even need a version of the game made for Linux. You could just install the Windows version with WINE. That is...assuming FDEV doesn't upgrade ED to DX12. I'm pretty sure they said that they didn't plan on doing that anytime soon, though, if at all.

 

[WR3ND]

Being a Linux user myself, and only vouching for myself personally, I don't have a problem paying for software at all. I actually don't pirate anything. Other than feeling people should be payed for their work and if it isn't worth paying for it isn't worth getting, pirating stuff is too much of a hassle and security risk. I even buy CDs and rip them as MP3s for personal use occasionally still.

Don't get me wrong. There's a ton of great free stuff out there too that is the result of passion and dedication, made for mutual benefit and enjoyment.

Of the games I do buy these days, being Linux compatible is a very high priority. There are a few games that are exceptions, such as this one, and most recently, The Witness (an amazing and challenging puzzle game, if you're into those). I can only hope that there will be Linux versions of them as well. I wouldn't even mind buying them again for the platform, though it isn't likely that I'd need to.

I'd rather developers move away from DirectX, especially not moving toward DirectX 12 instead of Vulkan when it's viable.

 

[wstephenson]

Being a Linux user myself, and only vouching for myself personally, I don't have a problem paying for software at all. I actually don't pirate anything. Other than feeling people should be payed for their work and if it isn't worth paying for it isn't worth getting, pirating stuff is too much of a hassle and security risk. I even buy CDs and rip them as MP3s for personal use occasionally still.

Of the games I do buy these days, being Linux compatible is a very high priority. There are a few games that exceptions, such as this one, and most recently, The Witness (an amazing and challenging puzzle game, if you're into those). I can only hope that there will be Linux versions of them as well. I wouldn't even mind buying them again for the platform, though it isn't likely that I'd need to.

I'd rather developers move away from DirectX, especially not moving toward DirectX 12 instead of Vulkan when it's viable.

Being a Linux developer myself, I can't wait, when I get home from work, to slip into someone else's proprietary game-launcher OS (Win10) and if I see any bugs, I can think "That's nice, they really should get around to fixing it" instead of feeling compelled to grab the sources and fix them.

SCNR

 

[shadragon]

Back in the early days (and I'm old), Open Source equated to free and there are still those who, to this day, refuse to pay anything for software on their machines. It is changing thankfully, but the community does have people of that type.

DX 11 on Wine will still take a performance hit because it isn't running natively. I suspect we'll see more native games on Steam soon, but Wine is only a stepping stone, not endgame in my mind.

 

[Kisvakond]

IMHO MS shot himself in the leg when DX12 was announced win10-exclusive. They managed to alienate hardware manufacturers like nvidia and intel so they are heading towards Vulkan.

 

[shadragon]

IMHO MS shot himself in the leg when DX12 was announced win10-exclusive. They managed to alienate hardware manufacturers like nvidia and intel so they are heading towards Vulkan.

Wouldn't be the first time a corporation has made a bonehead error like that. MS has a history of vocally supporting "standards" then not actually following them 100% to lock in their own technology. My personal goal is to be OS neutral and not be dependent on any company to run my PC.

 

[Kisvakond]

...



Nice scrapping hulls with you all. I hope to see you again when Frontier can accommodate "The Final Frontier" of Operating Systems.

My resignation tendered.

CMDR Richard Daystrom

Do not gentle into that good night CMDR!

Has anyone tried Crossover already ?????
Elite does not seem to be that resource-intensive so if you have a medium config, the emulation should not be much penalty in frame rate.

Steam OS has already Vulkan support for nvidia cards so we are nearly there! (shame on amd, vulkan would only support the latest cards on Linux... )

Just another thing to consider: DX12 and Vulkan, at the API level, is practically identical. The one that support one, can support the other with no sweat.
I think there will be a lot of people like you, not wiling to go the MS way after June.
(My win10 keeps deleting my drivers, not mentioning those who have a priate copy etc.)
Let's see MS OS market shares after win7 support ceases. Gabe thinks it serious to make games work on SteamOS.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Do not gentle into that good night CMDR!

Has anyone tried Crossover already ?????
Elite does not seem to be that resource-intensive so if you have a medium config, the emulation should not be much penalty in frame rate.

Steam OS has already Vulkan support for nvidia cards so we are nearly there! (shame on amd, vulkan would only support the latest cards on Linux... )

Just another thing to consider: DX12 and Vulkan, at the API level, is practically identical. The one that support one, can support the other with no sweat.
I think there will be a lot of people like you, not wiling to go the MS way after June.
(My win10 keeps deleting my drivers, not mentioning those who have a priate copy etc.)
Let's see MS OS market shares after win7 support ceases. Gabe thinks it serious to make games work on SteamOS.

For all Linux commanders Wine DirectX11 support coming this year, which promises at least chance of theoretical possibility of being able to run ED.

 

[0x666c697473]

For all Linux commanders Wine DirectX11 support coming this year, which promises at least chance of theoretical possibility of being able to run ED.

Has anyone tried Crossover already ?????

this is the thread you are looking for wrt to WINE progress, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=202695

So, I'm a bit frustrated at having to use Windows again after 20 years without it and I'm trying to get people's ideas about how to alter the landscape, the current ideas I've heard about promoting Linux as a gaming platform are here:

• TV Advertising (I think this is out of reach in the near term, shouldn't be forgotten)
• Internet Advertising (within reach now)
• YouTube Channel with Linux game reviews (Anyone interested in working out a format for that? I wouldn't want to inflict my vocal discord on the world, but easily doable)
• Community Building (No idea how to start on this, but I have contacts who have done it from scratch successfully, is there some kind of SIG we could put together and get involved at game shows and the like (medium term effort I think))

Do any of those strike you as a viable way to promote the platform to users and developers? Do you have any other ideas? Would you join a Gaming LUG to try and lobby developers, do you think such an endeavour is even worthwhile?

 

[VictorT]

it's sad that Elite: Dangerous will be available on last-gen PS4 and Xbone before they'd even consider a next-gen console like steam machine.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

I see that Vulkan was actually released yesterday(???)

Strange that there were many calls for FDev to use it in a pre-release form...

You never know... could be a runner for a later release, but for now... all that code. Reminds me of when we started server virtualisation. At the time there was only one contender: VMware, because none of the rest had anything near a production ready solution. Now we are with them it would be an effort to move, and each time we think about doing it, there's one more thing that the competition just simply does not do.

So while DX is being supported and developed... expect little reason to change for a minority user base.

(Caveat - much as I know running on Linux would let me run on Ultra-high on an integrated chipset... *sigh*)

 

[shadragon]

Are we now so addicted, we will accept almost any indignity, any invasion of privacy just to "Play the Game!".

Microsoft, while not a monopoly per se, does command a large part of the market. Drivers are written for Windows, Games are written for Windows, Business apps, etc. The reinforce their position (Like Apple, Google, etc.) by offering API's, systems and software that will work only in a Windows environment. Open Source is railing against that. It will take time, it will not happen tomorrow, but it will eventually. Linux is not easy to use for the "Average" user and that obstacle needs to be tackled too.

The more they tighten their grip, the more will slip through their fingers. (Obligatory Star Wars Paraphrase).

 

[dangerousbeans]

I'm a developer. I use Linux for the "day to day" in a work environment.

I also play plenty of games on it at home. I currently use Ubuntu, as that's what my current work place has chosen; and to be honest, it's rock solid.

I was mainly a Red Hat user in previous jobs/home. (the only difference in distro flavours are a few general commands you use, not much else)

I admit, for sexy time games like ED and anything new out since 2014, I have a gaming Win 10 PC at home, its solid, fast, works, can't complain, (love it to be fair)

Having a Linux version of ED would be a little treat to me only, as the FPS will be better, therefore you wouldn't need such a powerful rig to get the eye candy out on screen, so I could install it on, say, my old gaming rig from 2012, which is currently used as a LAN server, its got a still working GTX570 and 8Gbs of ram. I wouldn't try ED on that PC as it is now (win 7) as I know I'd have to drag the settings down to LOW/MED.

Me being a Linux lover and saying "ED doesn't really need a Linux port", because it runs A+ in Win 10 anyway, probably doesn't help much

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Microsoft, while not a monopoly per se, does command a large part of the market. Drivers are written for Windows, Games are written for Windows, Business apps, etc. The reinforce their position (Like Apple, Google, etc.) by offering API's, systems and software that will work only in a Windows environment. Open Source is railing against that. It will take time, it will not happen tomorrow, but it will eventually. Linux is not easy to use for the "Average" user and that obstacle needs to be tackled too.

The more they tighten their grip, the more will slip through their fingers. (Obligatory Star Wars Paraphrase).

Which (Century) moon have you been hiding on?

Microsoft is moving away from Windows and proprietary software in the last year. Nadala is moving it to a Service Provider model that runs on any platform, and even providing windows as a service. We are little more than a hop skip and a jump from divorcing Hardware from OS. You can get Windows 10 on-a-stick right now that is more than just a live CD, since it carries all your profile and customizations with it.

If you are going to dis a company, at least catch up...

 

[VictorT]

running any OS on a stick subjects you to the USB bus's IO limitations, and is retardedly slow, on anything except USB3, and even then say goodbye to the stick's longevity.

Also, good luck ever divorcing O/S from hardware, really. The rubber always has to meet the road somewhere.

Anyway, so.. Vulkan is out.. I've installed it on my debian gaming rig. at least one game this week will be running it (Talos Principle, if you're curious). And my Steam Machine's OS is already updated to it.. I'm pretty much set for the next generation of Linux games.

I like the idea that Microsoft commands a large part of the gaming market, and has for so long. Because believe it or not, at this point it's all just inertia.

Companies like Valve are shifting some of that momentum, and with their participation in the Khronos group, to produce Vulkan, things are going to change very rapidly over the next 3-6 months or so.

It speaks volumes that DX12 is similarly derived from Mantle, like Vulkan is. Whatever Microsoft themselves have decided to do, it is basically a lateral leap to whatever Vulkan does, and when developers make that lateral leap, not only do they not lose performance on Windows 10, they pick up portability to Win7/8 and Linux..

While being a game written with DX12 means you get only Window10 and the Xbox, being written with Vulkan means you get a lot more marketshare.. If the opinions in this forum are to be believed, I'd imagine that almighty marketshare is up for grabs the moment Vulkan is the API of choice, and games galore can reach more people unwilling or unable to upgrade to Windows10. Oh, and Linux.. and Android, and what else..

My point is, if there's going to ever be an Elite: Dangerous for Linux, it'll probably be easier now that Vulkan is actually a thing.

I will continue not holding my breath though. =(

 

[WR3ND]

...or have no reason to update to Windows 10. "Upgrade," implies some kind of beneficial advance, which is of course case specific and highly subjective. The term is one of my pet peeves. And actually, I do keep my installs of Windows 7 updated, excluding Microsoft adware, so that's not really the most accurate of terms either in this case. But I digress...

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

By WR3ND (all copyrights reserved by author)!
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Well, this guy is running dual-boot, with GNU/Debian on a ram drive, apparently a USB/SSD in a VM. I would be courious if you have the issues stated by the VictorT?

Don't be silly! Linus doesn't have problems. Only lots and lots of solutions.