Elite Dangerous is the Largest Empty Sandbox Ever Made

[Ziggy Stardust]

Little sand for players to make their own things.

See, this thread is not a complaint about the lack of sand in the sand box. Frontier is aware and the Beyond update is geared towards that issue. This is a thread claiming: this specific type of sand needs to be added. Namely player owned genitalia extensions.

My counter argument is simple and just as in-depth as the case being made: No it doesn't. It would ruin Elite.

If you want I could illustrate this with pictures as well

edit: bolding and text size

 

[Ozric]

Please take mode conversations to Hotel California, this is not the place for them.

That's an exaggeration, but the sandbox definitely lacks sand.

Do you know what games like Terraria, Eve Online, Minecraft are still so popular after several years? Because they these are sandbox games with lots of sand a tools for players to mold, influence and control stuff.

OK I'm going to finally step in here.

Stop pretending that Sandbox defines one genre! Elite is not a sandbox building game, despite how much you keep going on that it should be. There's plenty of stuff you can do with the "sand" they've given us, otherwise there wouldn't be all of the player created groups there are at the moment.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

That's an exaggeration, but the sandbox definitely lacks sand.

Do you know what games like Terraria, Eve Online, Minecraft are still so popular after several years? Because they these are sandbox games with lots of sand a tools for players to mold, influence and control stuff.

Deep Sandbox games (Eve Online, Minecraft, Terraria, Star Wars Galaxies etc):

Lots of sand and tools for the player to make their own things!

https://clickwp.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/sandbox.jpg

Little sand for players to make their own things.

Shallow Sandbox: (Elite Dangerous)

Frontier gave us a spoon and a little sand to play with atm. Because players can create, mold and control very little compared to Eve Online, Star Wars Galaxies and all the other great sandbox games.

http://www.traditionaloven.com/building/img/beach-sand.jpg

Have you considered FD are not trying to make a full on sandbox game? If they wanted to make a game with more sand, they would add more sand. They might have plans to add more sand over time, they probably do. Unfortunately, they can't just wave a magic wand here.

I mean, what is the point of this thread except to complain that FD haven't made the game you want?

I see no constructive suggestions from you in your OP about what FD could reasonably add in the coming months or years to increase the amount of sand that would be in line with FD's plans.

Either you enjoy the game, or you don't. You can tell FD they are not making a game you enjoy, and that's fine. It doesn't mean the devs will jump to implement what you want, no more than they would jump to make what i want (which is probably different from what you want).

Yeah, for me 2.4 hasn't been interesting either, but I still enjoy the game, and there are other games out there i can play when i do get bored of ED.

Time for the old infographic.

 

[bootsam]

Well OP go off and play those games then and give us all a rest from your pitiful whining on and on and on.

Its just a repetitive narritive over and over again. You made your point, but thats not enough. You have to repeat it, over and over and over. Good grief man, give it a rest. Move on. Youre becoming obsessed.

 

[Ethaidan]

Heres another really POPULAR OPINION for why powerplay is not used very much.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...play_imperials_and_grom_fight_with_no_honour/

But hey its these forums that matter? And the same lines of text from the same 7 people. All were missing in the 3 other guys. One of them has a wall of text he likes to post.

It sure was nice not seeing those people and having a great and meaningful discussion...

That wasn't meaningful discussion, there was nothing new or interesting, it was nothing more than a redundant, back slapping, echo chamber.

Try again.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

That's an exaggeration, but the sandbox definitely lacks sand.

Do you know what games like Terraria, Eve Online, Minecraft are still so popular after several years? Because they these are sandbox games with lots of sand a tools for players to mold, influence and control stuff.

Deep Sandbox

(Eve Online, Minecraft, Terraria, Ultima Online, Conan Exiles, Star Wars Galaxies etc)

Lots of sand and tools for players to make their own things!

https://clickwp.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/sandbox.jpg

Shallow Sandbox

(Elite Dangerous)

https://www.hoboonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/1225307_TURTLE-POOL-SANDBOX-WITH-COVER1.jpg

Frontier gave us a spoon and a little sand to play with atm. Because players can create, mold and control very little compared to Eve Online, Star Wars Galaxies and other great sandbox games.

https://us.123rf.com/450wm/seregam/...ar-and-spoon-isolated-on-white-background.jpg

Just wrong in so many ways. There is sand, just not the sand you want to play with. Next year is looks like FDev are adding more sand, and it maybe not the sand you want to play with either.

Thats life. Like EVE online, has plenty of sand, just no sand that I want to play with. Therefore if I tried playing EVE online, I would probably think it has no depth to the game, as it isn't something I am interested in.

 

[GunnerBill]

This game will just fall off into obscurity.

iirc this game has been around since 1984... probably longer than you have.

But anyway back on topic, is this the kind of sand you want?

Only £8.99!!!

https://www.bargainmax.co.uk/kineti...X6U121sr_3D-hTQPWDQSWU20ehaKQjgBoCpuMQAvD_BwE

[FONT=&quot]Make your very own Ice Cream Treats with Kinetic Sand - the squeezable sand you can mould with your hands!

For ages 3 and over.[/FONT]

 

[Sylveria]

iirc this game has been around since 1984... probably longer than you have.

But anyway back on topic, is this the kind of sand you want?

https://www.bargainmax.co.uk/media/...6e95/7/F/7F2BC6297DFD6D714733B53E39BCB0F9.jpg

Only £8.99!!!

https://www.bargainmax.co.uk/kineti...X6U121sr_3D-hTQPWDQSWU20ehaKQjgBoCpuMQAvD_BwE

[FONT="]Make your very own Ice Cream Treats with Kinetic Sand - the squeezable sand you can mould with your hands!

For ages 3 and over.[/FONT]

You remember correctly, indeed And that's not counting the development time before the game was released, either.

Gotta love all these people who can criticize the game, yet they have no such achievements to compare it to.

I say if you can do a better job- get your own Kickstarter going and let's see how successful you really are. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Obsidian Ant's latest video has one of the best comments ever about Elite Dangerous:

Fdev built one of the largest sandbox's in video game history.. then? when it came time to put sand into it? They just built some kiddie theme park rides that offer the same experience over and over. Thargoids are just another theme park. You get on the ride.. see everything there is.. Than there is nothing left but to get on that ride again..... It makes sense for World of Warcraft.. you pay a monthly subscription and Blizzard has 200-300 full time developers building new rides.. In Elite? It wastes limited developer time.. hurts the game.. and ultimately doesn't add any sand to the box.

If there isn't Sand put in the box for Players to actually mold, change and influence themselves.. In an innovative and bold way.. This game will just fall off into obscurity.

It's the saddest part about Elite when you understand how the game works. It's the largest empty sandbox ever made that is full of kiddie rides with no depth or imagination.. In a Game "Galaxy" concept built and based on the idea of depth and imagination. Quite a paradox? Just give players the "Sand" That is all the Developers should be spending their time on. Instead you get CQC, Multicrew, Thargoids, CG's. Placing stations instead of letting players build them.... It's madness.

Link to the subreddit.

P.S. the comment was made by someone else below the video.

Good news is you don't have to play. Or post.

 

[Aashenfox]

Isn't the Beyond update designed specifically to address the issue of professions in Elite being rather one-dimensional?

Wasn't 2.4 supposed to include an epic alien storyline? Touche!

 

[Ian Skippy]

Good news is you don't have to play. Or post.

I think you overestimate how much self-control some people have.

 

[babelfisch]

Yep, which neatly ties into what I was saying about how they didnt think what the knock on effect of putting indirect pvp mechanics into a game where you can recuse yourself from player interaction would have.

Or they did think about it and didn't care.

 

[babelfisch]

Isn't the Beyond update designed specifically to address the issue of professions in Elite being rather one-dimensional?

edit: And does every thread need to degenerate into: make Powerplay only for Open snowflakes, because a few posters seem to think this will create world peace and be the end of starvation on Earth?

Yes, but... but nobody wants that!

 

[Ian Skippy]

This game will just fall off into obscurity.

Out of curiosity: how many years ago did you first predict this? [haha]

 

[Goose4291]

I don't play Power, so forgive my ignorance.

Is it really a worthwhile reason though? It would depend, could you drop off fortification tokens yourself in larger quantities than you can stop them? For example (numbers are very much bollox)

Situation 1:
In 1 hour on average you manage to stop 3 traders: 1500t not delivered.
In 1 hour on average you could have delivered 500t 6 times: 3000t delivered.
In this situation, the delivering party will always out-compete the blocking party.

Situation 2:
In 1 hour on average you manage to stop 6 traders: 3000t not delivered.
In 1 hour on average you could have delivered 500t 3 times: 1500t delivered.
In this situation, the blocking party will always out-compete the delivering party.

I am guessing 1 is more likely than 2, but because of former mentioned ignorance, is that the case?

Not exactly Ziggy.

In the aforementioned example.

Player A is in the system trying to undermine it (by shooting Powerplay NPCs and Players while in that system)
Player B is trying to fortify the system (by delivering tokens)

Player A will carry on about their business undermining until they see Player B, at which point they interdict and kill them.
Player B's hasn't delivered their cargo, (resulting in 500t of fortification tokens not being delivered) and Player A has also accrued another batch of undermining tokens by killing B.

Is that clearer dude?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Wasn't 2.4 supposed to include an epic alien storyline? Touche!

The storyline is fine in and of itself, the problem in my opinion is that it's just too stretched out with not enough galactic backdrop story to give it a sense of movement. Disclosure: I've not played in a few weeks and might have missed stuff.

 

[ShimEnki]

Obsidian Ant's latest video has one of the best comments ever about Elite Dangerous:

Fdev built one of the largest sandbox's in video game history.. then? when it came time to put sand into it? They just built some kiddie theme park rides that offer the same experience over and over. Thargoids are just another theme park. You get on the ride.. see everything there is.. Than there is nothing left but to get on that ride again..... It makes sense for World of Warcraft.. you pay a monthly subscription and Blizzard has 200-300 full time developers building new rides.. In Elite? It wastes limited developer time.. hurts the game.. and ultimately doesn't add any sand to the box.

If there isn't Sand put in the box for Players to actually mold, change and influence themselves.. In an innovative and bold way.. This game will just fall off into obscurity.

It's the saddest part about Elite when you understand how the game works. It's the largest empty sandbox ever made that is full of kiddie rides with no depth or imagination.. In a Game "Galaxy" concept built and based on the idea of depth and imagination. Quite a paradox? Just give players the "Sand" That is all the Developers should be spending their time on. Instead you get CQC, Multicrew, Thargoids, CG's. Placing stations instead of letting players build them.... It's madness.

Link to the subreddit.

P.S. the comment was made by someone else below the video.

Everything you said plus a cosmos of idiotically useless Illegal cargo

That it will fall off into obscurity is dead wrong cmdr...It ALREADY has.

 

[Cosmo]

Have you considered FD are not trying to make a full on sandbox game? If they wanted to make a game with more sand, they would add more sand. They might have plans to add more sand over time, they probably do. Unfortunately, they can't just wave a magic wand here.

I mean, what is the point of this thread except to complain that FD haven't made the game you want?

I see no constructive suggestions from you in your OP about what FD could reasonably add in the coming months or years to increase the amount of sand that would be in line with FD's plans.

The point of the thread is primarily to remind the game designers that it's important to make the sandbox deep if Elite Dangerous is to last another 5 years. It needs features that give players agency to create and control things rather than add superficial content. It doesn't need to be a full-blown sandbox game, but it needs more sand and tools. Otherwise it will remain a shallow sandbox which many people complained about for the last 3 years.

What could make the sandbox deep

Some suggestions:

• Player owned capital ships - this is believed to be coming as the Fleet Carrier in Q4 2018. Should be (very) customizable and act as a mobile base for PVE and PVP gameplay. Also expand the type of player owned capital ships: battleships, bulk carriers etc.
• Proper in-game guild mechanics - believed to be coming as Squadrons in Q4 2018. For deep social interaction among players.
• Mining Extractors - player owned. It can be bought and placed on a planet. After a while the player would return to collect the mined minerals
• Storage Structure - player owned. This building is used to store the mined minerals.
• Processor Structure - player owned. This is used to process the mined minerals. Then players can produce goods such as modules and ships by themselves. It makes the economy more player driven and adds depth to mining.
• NPC Ship Crew Management - NPC crew in the cockpit and crew management options for the whole ship which can be managed by the player. This adds depth to NPC interactions onboard a ship.
• Player owned Outpost, Stations - for Squadrons who have enough credits and resources to build or buy an outpost or station. It'll bear the Squadron's name and give some benefits for owning and maintaining it. If the squadron doesn't maintain it then it'll be NPC controlled.

Well OP go off and play those games then and give us all a rest from your pitiful whining on and on and on.

Roughly 80% or more people who bought ED went away and stopped playing. I could be one of those 80% but I come here to give advice and feedback so Frontier can make Elite Dangerous great.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

No depth, and no imagination ... yes, I agree. Rubbish.
But .. and I'm going to reiterate this as it's a highly accurate idiom .. Elite is a mile wide, but an inch deep.

Example..
Mining.
This is what I consider to be depth:
Mining lasers of different types and sizes and power requirements; different drill heads that produce different lasers for different types of mining etc
Gas mining of gas giants, or other gas planets - right now, those could be drones or depots.
Automated mining drones which can be deployed in a field and go around collecting minerals within a certain range of the ship
Automated mining depots which can be deployed on an asteroid
Automated refinery depots
Automated processing plants (create your own supply chain)
Mining research that upgrades scanners/drones (with the necessary software or hardware changes to implement it)
Deep core mining stations on planets
Ice-mining with deep crust mining stations on ice planets
Dedicated mining ship that is capable of doing all of the above. Very slow. Very strong (designed to withstand impact of asteroids). Decently armed to protect against pirates.
MultiCrew Mining features

etc etc etc

ED has plenty of things to do (mile wide), but not enough to do those things with (inch deep); there aren't enough options available. Not enough sand. I should be able to build a sand castle, but I'm limited to sticking little twigs into the sand.

Mining suffers from lacking basic enonomical reasoning. If ED would be a real universe no one would be mining in ice rings ever, it is way too underpaid or prices for ice mined only ressources would ba a lot higher making mining there proficient.

I really wish we had Multicrew mining where one guy can fly a fighter mining vessel and scan the potatoes for good materials and mark them. And another guy can have turret mining laserschipping off parts from the potatoes, while the pilot may also do so on possibly another one. or cares about alignign the ship correctly over the chipped of parts.

But this requires better mining mechanics, better information on probed asteroids. (why does their data disappear after the probe is gone? we can scan enitre ships up to their cargo, but not potatoes in space? :/)
And of course better payout for everyone, "increased rewards" thats what the multicrew join screen says yet it's a plain out lie, it's not increased.

 

[Ethaidan]

Wasn't 2.4 supposed to include an epic alien storyline? Touche!

Ya... that's not how it works. 'Touche' is what someone says to you within the broader context of repartee, extrapolating, of course from the original context of fencing wherein one acknowledges an opponent striking a blow. Saying something, then adding touche, is worse then laughing at your own joke without delivering the punchline.