Elite Dangerous Issue Report - 10/08/2021

While the gist of what you have to say has merit, you have to also consider why the shaders are complex.

Yes, simple shaders are fast, no argument about that, but they also can't do much. This is not to say Odyssey's shaders are not too complex (not saying they are, either), but complex lighting (which Odyssey does) requires complicated math and thus complex shaders.

I'll take good looks (at a reasonable frame-rates (over 30, pref 60 fps)) over meh looks at over 100fps any day.
You confused visual complexity with math complexity and completely missed the point - they're doing things in PS which should be done in VS or even deeper in the CPU. Which has nothing to do with final look but performance.
 
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You confused visual complexity with math complexity and completely missed the point - they're doing things in PS which should be done in VS or even deeper in the CPU. Which has nothing to do with final look but performance.
I confused nothing. You did not give any specifics. Well, here are some specifics for you.

Odyssey should be using deferred rendering (if it's not, oh boy, there's a big optimization right there), thus...
  • depth pass: there should be no fragment shader at all
  • g-buffer pass: the fragment shader should indeed be simple: just texture look-ups (albedo etc) and blasting the data to the buffer, minimal if any calculation
  • lighting pass: this is where things get interesting. Can't do anything interesting in the vertex shader as there's only a single full-screen quad (some use a triangle that covers the screen and let the GPI clip the triangle, but I don't see how that's an optimization).
  • translucency pass: this is generally a forward renderer and so quite nasty, but does give opportunities for doing some lighting calculations in the vertex shader and letting the GPU take care of the interpolation). However, very limited on the number of lights it can support before it bogs down. I know of order independent translucency and depth pealing, but that's about all I know about it, so no further comment on that (other than I have more study to do).
  • reflection and fracaction: do the above six times
  • final coposition (single or multi-stage): another fullscreen quad. Again, not a lot of opportunities to move stuff into the vertex shader or the CPU
Now, that said...
  • Messing with quaternions in a fragment shader is probably a bad idea. Matrix-vector multiplication is significantly faster than quaternion-vector multiplication, and gives you translation for free (with quaterions, it's a separate step), and you often need to do perspective calculations anyway. Quaternion-matrix translations should be done on the CPU, of course.
  • Unless you have a very good reason, the above probably applies for the vertex shader, too. It probably depends on how volatile the data is and thus how much transfer bandwidth is an issue compared to the calculations.
  • If inter-vertex interpolation can be used (1: you have vertices, 2: the results are acceptable), then certainly the relevant calculations should be moved to the vertex shader, or even passed in as vertex attributes (ie, done on the CPU or off-line).
  • For full-screen quad rendering (composition, deferred lighting, etc), anything that's effectively constant should be calculated on the CPU and pass in to the shader.
  • Any GPU memory management tricks should (and probably must) be done on the CPU (I don't think I've seen any GPU-side mechanism for memory management) (I'm thinking of sparse buffer tricks etc)
I'm sure there's much much more.

These days, I often laugh to myself because years ago, I was told to ditch PVS and BSP from QuakeForge's render because "GPUs are fast enough, just throw the whole map at the GPU and be done with it", but that applies only to Quake's extremely basic lighting model (light-maps). Putting "proper" lighting (ie, real-time, per-pixel) in requires doing more work on the cpu, especially if when using the map-provided lights (average of over 100 lights visible just in the demos). I took one look at those numbers and simply noped out of doing it in a forward renderer. Around 400fps in a deferred renderer (no shadows yet, worried about that, though).

And for reference:
https://github.com/quakeforge/quakeforge (and yes, that's the "-qf" in my name)
 
To #15: my Elite NPC eats 10 % of all of my income no matter if active or not which is a major flaw in the game design already. It ate 2,9 billion (!) of my income already. Having it count towards progression in the conflict zones feels totally okay to me.
 

Deleted member 110222

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Reading this it's just the unlock access to the Engineer. I think they should just get rid of most of the Engineer unlock requirements.
Thinking I'll add my thoughts to suggest things forum.
Look if FD decides that removing the unlock gates is the easiest fix, more power to them. (As it should, given they are the literal owners of the joint)

But right now my concern is that it's made clear if those new players are going to face any consequences for this bug. Will their access be revoked, or will it be forgiven. They deserve a clear answer to this.
 
Gameplay for Apex Shuttle Rides? I usually just boot up an old FPS like DOOM (uses practically nothing in system resources), play it on a different monitor, and pretend my CMDR has one of those sturdy tablets from the CG years back. On that note, you could consider emulating the older Elite titles or make retro style games to fit the Universe of Elite. Would be nice to have something to do in game while waiting for things to finish in ED.

On that note, what about all that new music added to bars in Odyssey? How about in game radio stations that we can tune into with our suits and ships? You could even put ads for factions and rare goods with locations of said factions and goods for a cool touch.
 
I mean.. we have space legs.. we have a modelled cockpit.. I wonder how fiendishly complicated it would be for the devs to let us at least wander around in the taxi cockpit, make a drink or something from the coffee maker.

Prob too much, but if they are going to eventually do interiors it would be a good place to start, they could introduce it gradually and it would have a game element.
 
Look if FD decides that removing the unlock gates is the easiest fix, more power to them. (As it should, given they are the literal owners of the joint)

But right now my concern is that it's made clear if those new players are going to face any consequences for this bug. Will their access be revoked, or will it be forgiven. They deserve a clear answer to this.
It's just the access to the engineer from reading the tickets. And the opposite bug was just 'fixed" where it was impossible to unlock certain Engineers. So negative punishment is very unlikely.
 

Deleted member 110222

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It's just the access to the engineer from reading the tickets. And the opposite bug was just 'fixed" where it was impossible to unlock certain Engineers. So negative punishment is very unlikely.
Hopefully.

Still, a bit absurd it has gone unnoticed by FD for so long, given it was there on Odyssey launch.

I am well aware of what the bug does: I submitted one of those tickets.
 
I'm really surprised nobody cares about how we can not play with friends on the same ship.

Of course, YMMV, but it helped for me.
 
Suggestion to #5 Apex mid-flight entertainment : Remote module management, transfer and fitting of your ships. I would REALLY love to be able to send some of my stuff around the bubble and organize my inventory on this spare time. Put it to good use.
 
I appreciate the transparency and think this is a useful forward step. I think it will restore a lot of trust in the community that we can vote on issues and the top voted issues will at least get included in the "issues" category and a developer/CM response acknowledging it as such. I think this is great and I'd love to see it continue.


For me and many others, the most important issues I would like to see given the opportunity for voting on and acknowledged by the CM team as being issues, have been marked as "By design" in the issue tracker so it's not possible for people to vote on them and for them to show up in an acknowledged list of issues like this. For example, this issue: https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/27921.


I understand not wanting the bug tracker to become cluttered with suggestions, and I understand that suggested changes are not bugs. What I would like, then, is for the "suggestions" forum to feel less like a black hole and more like the issue tracker, in that there is a similar system for community voting on suggestions, and the top 20 suggestions get discussed by the Devs/CM team in a similar way to this post. I don't know if it's easier to put a "Suggestions" tag in the issue tracker, or to tally and respond to the highest voted suggestions in the suggestions forum, but I know this change would make me feel a lot more confident that the community is being listened to.
 
Tiling Planetary Features: Changing the way planets are generated signifies a huge undertaking, so we're still investigating this.

If only there was a designated period of time before the main release that players could use to help give feedback of issues before the "main switch" was flipped setting the issue in stone. This period of time could be more than a few months long. Allowing ugly, immersion breaking issues such as this to be known and fixed early. We could use the greek alphabet to designate different stages of release when the game has reached various levels of completion.

.....................
 
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If only there was a designated period of time before the main release that players could use to help give feedback of issues before the "main switch" was flipped setting the issue in stone. This period of time could be more than a few months long. Allowing ugly, immersion breaking issues such as this to be known and fixed early. We could use the greek alphabet to designate different stages of release when the game has reached various levels of completion.

.....................
Pssh that will never catch on
 
... I just realised there isn't an issue report up yet for the thing on settlement terminals where the first entry in the personnel list is blank and unselectable. If nobody beats me to it I'll put one up after work, because holy wow is that one annoying when you're on a settlement raid and you're trying to find where the last one is hiding and checking the terminal just brings up a blank box.
 
... I just realised there isn't an issue report up yet for the thing on settlement terminals where the first entry in the personnel list is blank and unselectable. If nobody beats me to it I'll put one up after work, because holy wow is that one annoying when you're on a settlement raid and you're trying to find where the last one is hiding and checking the terminal just brings up a blank box.
I ran into that. Hopped into my SRV to check: was in the power building.
 
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