Elite Dangerous now on Steam

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.

James Harper

James Harper
Toumal said:
If they do offer a "convert your license to a steam key" thing, then I'd hope they do it for everyone, not just us KS backers.

But again, I do not care, and neither should you. The only good thing about having a steam key is that we could post reviews for ED there. You get the steam overlay by adding a game shortcut to ED in Steam just as if it was a normal Steam game, and people can see that you are playing "Elite Dangerous" in your friends list. Beyond that, Steam is useless for ED, since you can't "join friend's game" via the steam friends list anyway - because you don't have to, just launch the game and meet up!
Click to expand...

YOU don't care. A lot of people do. And for the record, you can do many things with the Steam version which you can't do with the standalone client, like posting screens to the Community hub, etc.

Phoenix said:
Yes he does. It's the only sane way to react to what happens here.

Honestly, the main problem witH FD giving out Steam keys for free is the following:
Giving out a Steam key is ususally only 'giving access through steam'.

Elite: Dangerous is a bit different here. Buying, of getting 'gifted' a game on steam, of getting a steam key from the publisher in this case entitles you not only to download the game through Steam and add it to your library here, but also to create a new Account.

In fact, right now that would mean FD had to gift every player a full second game license / account. I totally understand that this is not going to happen that way.

They need to find a way to hand out Steam Keys that do NOT entitle you to create a second account. That will not happen throughout the easter holidays, and I am afraid this will take a few extra days to sort out in the weeks after easter.

So the sane thing is to keep calm, and wait. FD said they are looking into it, and when they solved this dilemma, they will, I am totally sure about that, happily give us the Keys that add the Game to our steam libraries while not gifting us a full second account.

Thing is: FD is putting effort in this. Effort / time (and thus money), they are spending on us, the people that already payed (a lot) for this game. They are doing the work to sort this out for free, besides or instead other stuff they could do to improve the game (like adding Thargoids). Honestly, I'd personally rather have Thargoids sooner and a Steam key later, but I am grateful of the work they put in the game and they put in the community so far. Please don't press the guys as Frontier. They probably do the best they can. And again: it's easter. There's probably no one on the Steam side right now to help them solve this, if they are going to work through the holidays anyways.
Click to expand...

They already have most of that stuff in place.




James Harper said:
I don't know why a Community Manager chose to say such a thing (that Steam charges for the keys)

Look here:
http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/

"It’s free: There’s no charge for bandwidth, updating, or activation of copies at retail or from third-party digital distributors."

http://steamcommunity.com/greenlight/faq/

"If my game is accepted through Steam Greenlight, can I give my previous customers keys for the Steam version?
Once your game is accepted for distribution on Steam, we will give you as many keys for your game as you want at no cost."

Is that proof enough for you?

And that greenlight faq isn't only applicable to greenlight, you can look here in the web archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20090226131820/http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/

Same thing there.

More stuff: http://www.geekwire.com/2011/experiments-video-game-economics-valves-gabe-newell/
http://www.geekwire.com/2011/valves-newell-predicts-shakeup-for-closed-game-consoles/

Is all that proof enough for you?



See my post above (and many before that)
Valve doesn't charge for Steam keys to devs.
Click to expand...



FuzzySpider said:
There is a gigantic difference between giving out keys and welcoming an already established player base to the platform.

Steam don't sell keys, they sell software licences.
Click to expand...

No, there is none:


"If my game is accepted through Steam Greenlight, can I give my previous customers keys for the Steam version?
Once your game is accepted for distribution on Steam, we will give you as many keys for your game as you want at no cost."

And that applies for games that don't come through Greenlight as well.
I don't know why so many people spread misinformation here, the correct information is freely available.

khaitom said:
" Note that once your game has been Greenlit and you are preparing for release, any in-game transactions or subscriptions available to Steam customers must be purchasable only by the Steam Wallet."

Frontier have to put systems in place that block steam users from buying content directly from Frontier. That sounds like a but of a nightmare. Imagine the tears if planetary landings got released outside of steam first (as would be sensible from a financial point of view)

I can't believe steam force you to sign over a percentage of all future takings to them for everyone you issue a key to.

There are huge costs to Frontier for issuing steam keys, I've heard as much as 34% of the price of stuff sold through steam. That's crazy. Especially as paid expansions for this could go on for years and steam may be irrelevant by then, just still skimming money from players who didn't originally buy through steam but demanded a key.
Click to expand...

Steam ONLY charges for games sold through their store (and the fee is 30%)
Issuing Steam keys is free. See my posts above.
 
Last edited:

Fisker

F
James Harper said:
And that applies for games that don't come through Greenlight as well.
I don't know why so many people spread misinformation here, the correct information is freely available.
Click to expand...

Just to reiterate on this point, Greenlight is basically a way to get a distribution agreement going with Valve, so while it may seem like you're "greenlighting a game", what you're actually doing is greenlighting the distribution agreement between the publisher and Valve, and once they have that they don't need the greenlight process anymore.
 

Druid

Druid
Can someone explain to me why it matters whether your on steam or not ? I have a desktop icon that I click and the game launches whats the big deal with steam ?
 

FuzzySpider

FuzzySpider
James Harper said:
No, there is none:


"If my game is accepted through Steam Greenlight, can I give my previous customers keys for the Steam version?
Once your game is accepted for distribution on Steam, we will give you as many keys for your game as you want at no cost."

And that applies for games that don't come through Greenlight as well.
I don't know why so many people spread misinformation here, the correct information is freely available.
Click to expand...

Ok. I am going to explain this to you one more time before you end up joining the ranks of the ignore list (a few others have ended up there due to this thread). Not because you're offensive, but because if you do not take this on board I'm clearly on your self-imposed ignore list and it's impossible to get through to you.

I am not saying that you're wrong, I am not saying that FD haven't reached a deal with Steam where they can issue keys to existing customers somehow, I am not saying that people shouldn't get Steam access for Elite. I am saying that you're completely failing to address the actual point being made about the cost to FD when you talk about "giving free keys".

Steam does not sell keys! Steam sells licenses to use the software they support.

When you go to buy a new car, you pay for a car. You do not pay for a key. A key is issued to you on sale of the car so that you can access your purchase.

Software keys are the exact same thing.

You buy a license to use a piece of software, and a key is given to you so that you can access that software.

Following me so far....?

What happens if my cars ignition switch fails? Or I need a new immobilizer? Or I simply lose the key?

I am issued with a new key, whether one is cut from the old key or whether a new ignition is fitted.

It works the same for software. Someone could lose their key, their account could be compromised, whatever, so any developer is given as many keys as they need. This is because keys are a functional part of the platform.

Keys are not the issue. To own a key is not to own a game.

Let me prove it to you. Go and buy a retail copy of UT2004 in a store or on Amazon. Note that the game is supported on Steam. Try to use your CD key on steam.

Are you still following?

Now. Let's discuss business.

Steam ask for (I think) 34% commission on games retailed on their platform. For that they host the game, put it on their hard drives, supply bandwidth, give tech support, support patches, advertise etc. That's how Valve make their return on Steam.

Now what they are doing with FD (you'd have us believe) is to allow FD to sell the product not on Steam but on their own retail site, take absolutely nothing from the sales there, and then support those customers on their platform for free. If Valve allowed every developer to do this, to basically sell the product on their own websites but give them Steam access to support it, it'd be economic madness.

Knightshark said:
Some are claiming that valve charges the devs for giving out retail keys for their game. That's not true, as i understand it's free:
http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/retailsupport.php
Click to expand...

What you've linked is a marketing blurb, not the contract said entities have to agree to for that service.
 
Last edited:

BigDuke6ixx

BigDuke6ixx
Druid said:
Can someone explain to me why it matters whether your on steam or not ? I have a desktop icon that I click and the game launches whats the big deal with steam ?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter one jot. It's just people being silly again. They have roofs over their heads, access to food, clean drinking water, jobs and enjoy freedom, so clearly they need something to moan about to fill the void in their empty lives. I'm going to switch to griefing in the hope that I can kill some of them.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Iain M Norman said:
We're getting sick of the phrase "Reading Comprehension", find a better argument people.
Click to expand...

I'm not tired of it if it applies. Tired of Royal 'we's though.
 
Last edited:

Kano Magnus

Kano Magnus
Just to point some things out ONCE AGAIN

1) Frontier never said never. In that Braben interview he says "It's something we'd look into" or words to that effect

2) KS backers (including myself) were never promised Steam keys so if I get one then cool but I've got the game I paid for and am fundamentally happy with it

3) Frontier are exhibiting at the "Insomnia Gaming Festival" this weekend and I'd imagine back at PAX they were asked a lot about Steam and had to say "no" every time - this is not good from a marketing POV, people only like "no" if the Q is "Do I have cancer?"

4) The Steam and non-Steam versions of ED are THE SAME. THE SAME. All Steam does to ED *actively* is (presumably) update the launcher. OOOOooooooOOOO. Big deal. You can post screenshots too. Again, BFD. Steam players are not starting at Founder's World with a Fer-de-Lance and a billion credits. To call this a storm in a teacup would be insulting to anyone who has ever knocked over a lukewarm beverage

*BONUS POINT* People moan about "always-on DRM" but want Steam? Top work guys
 

Tuzmaal

Tuzmaal
Kano Magnus said:
Just to point some things out ONCE AGAIN

1) Frontier never said never. In that Braben interview he says "It's something we'd look into" or words to that effect

2) KS backers (including myself) were never promised Steam keys so if I get one then cool but I've got the game I paid for and am fundamentally happy with it

3) Frontier are exhibiting at the "Insomnia Gaming Festival" this weekend and I'd imagine back at PAX they were asked a lot about Steam and had to say "no" every time - this is not good from a marketing POV, people only like "no" if the Q is "Do I have cancer?"

4) The Steam and non-Steam versions of ED are THE SAME. THE SAME. All Steam does to ED *actively* is (presumably) update the launcher. OOOOooooooOOOO. Big deal. You can post screenshots too. Again, BFD. Steam players are not starting at Founder's World with a Fer-de-Lance and a billion credits. To call this a storm in a teacup would be insulting to anyone who has ever knocked over a lukewarm beverage

*BONUS POINT* People moan about "always-on DRM" but want Steam? Top work guys
Click to expand...

Stop providing reasonable arguements to Spacenerds, thats uncalled.
 

FuzzySpider

FuzzySpider
Kano Magnus said:
4) The Steam and non-Steam versions of ED are THE SAME. THE SAME. All Steam does to ED *actively* is (presumably) update the launcher. OOOOooooooOOOO. Big deal. You can post screenshots too. Again, BFD. Steam players are not starting at Founder's World with a Fer-de-Lance and a billion credits. To call this a storm in a teacup would be insulting to anyone who has ever knocked over a lukewarm beverage
Click to expand...

This really is something people need to take on board. How long do we take to start elite up? I spend about 20 seconds deciding whether to have a monitor or oculus and then I'll start accordingly. Steam, as far as the game is concerned, is just a bunch of pretty windows to start the game up. It won't have any impact once the FD blurb gets flashed across your screen.

The only thing that concerns me is the effect this could have on FDs bottom line. If FD start selling their paint jobs and wotnot on steam they'll be sharing 34% of their profits with Valve.
 

Mystified

M
FuzzySpider said:
Steam ask for (I think) 34% commission on games retailed on their platform. For that they host the game, put it on their hard drives, supply bandwidth, give tech support, support patches, advertise etc. That's how Valve make their return on Steam. Now what they are doing with FD (you'd have us believe) is to allow FD to sell the product not on Steam but on their own retail site, take absolutely nothing from the sales there, and then support those customers on their platform for free. If Valve allowed every developer to do this, to basically sell the product on their own websites but give them Steam access to support it, it'd be economic madness.
Click to expand...
That's exactly how it works... I don't see what's so difficult to understand. For a long time now Steam has been fine with 'hosting' games for publisher/developers, and letting them create batches of *free* Steam keys and use those to sell their game on their own store pages, or those of other retailers. Valve's perfectly fine with that, because they've long ago seen that there are plenty benefits to having customers (even non-paying ones) route through your own client/storefront, adding to an active and wide userbase and possibly increasing future purchases. Besides, it's Steam, they'll see a large number of sales on the game anyway, even if it was already selling elsewhere before. The only exception to the above are F2P games.
 

Fisker

F
FuzzySpider said:
Ok. I am going to explain this to you one more time before you end up joining the ranks of the ignore list (a few others have ended up there due to this thread). Not because you're offensive, but because if you do not take this on board I'm clearly on your self-imposed ignore list and it's impossible to get through to you.
Click to expand...

Funny, considering you cannot deal with the reality of the matter, you've been told why this business arangement works, you've been shown the evidence that this way of handling their partners is the case, yet you won't "take it on board".


FuzzySpider said:
I am not saying that you're wrong, I am not saying that FD haven't reached a deal with Steam where they can issue keys to existing customers somehow, I am not saying that people shouldn't get Steam access for Elite. I am saying that you're completely failing to address the actual point being made about the cost to FD when you talk about "giving free keys".

Steam does not sell keys! Steam sells licenses to use the software they support.

When you go to buy a new car, you pay for a car. You do not pay for a key. A key is issued to you on sale of the car so that you can access your purchase.

Software keys are the exact same thing.

You buy a license to use a piece of software, and a key is given to you so that you can access that software.

Following me so far....?

What happens if my cars ignition switch fails? Or I need a new immobilizer? Or I simply lose the key?

I am issued with a new key, whether one is cut from the old key or whether a new ignition is fitted.

It works the same for software. Someone could lose their key, their account could be compromised, whatever, so any developer is given as many keys as they need. This is because keys are a functional part of the platform.

Keys are not the issue. To own a key is not to own a game.
Click to expand...

In terms of Steam, yes it is. Keys are not issued to developers for the point of dealing with Steam-related issues, that is what Valve takes on as their role in terms of support. So arguing these keys are there for sake of support is incorrect as that support is entirely and completely handled by Valve as their own Distribution Agreement stipulates, and as the copies can't digitally change hands, there's really no reason why they'd need to use keys as a recovery method for that in the first place, they have to help them recover their account, and that's it.


FuzzySpider said:
Let me prove it to you. Go and buy a retail copy of UT2004 in a store or on Amazon. Note that the game is supported on Steam. Try to use your CD key on steam.

Are you still following?
Click to expand...

Yeah except you've got it the wrong way around, this is taking a retail key format that is different from Steam's and then updating their authentication servers to handle this format. We're talking about generating new Steam activation keys, two different issues, and an issue that in your case is at least dated by 5 years, our information is current and valid.

FuzzySpider said:
Now. Let's discuss business.

Steam ask for (I think) 34% commission on games retailed on their platform. For that they host the game, put it on their hard drives, supply bandwidth, give tech support, support patches, advertise etc. That's how Valve make their return on Steam.

Now what they are doing with FD (you'd have us believe) is to allow FD to sell the product not on Steam but on their own retail site, take absolutely nothing from the sales there, and then support those customers on their platform for free. If Valve allowed every developer to do this, to basically sell the product on their own websites but give them Steam access to support it, it'd be economic madness.
Click to expand...

The normal agreement is 30%, and yes, as you've been told countless time, Valve agrees to this because doing so will give them further momentum for future sales. But contrary to what the issue is here, i.e. transferring current customers. Selling steam keys to circumvent their business model entirely is a different beast entirely, one obviously not approved of by Valve as they are, as you said, a business, so an operation of this magnitude will, as earlier discussed, typically be a one-time thing, meaning that they would be allowed to generate keys for all current customers, but a cutoff would have to be made so that the two storefronts would stay seperate in the future.
 
Last edited:
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom